Collective Bargaining Modernization Act of 2014 (Veto Overriden)
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  Collective Bargaining Modernization Act of 2014 (Veto Overriden)
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Author Topic: Collective Bargaining Modernization Act of 2014 (Veto Overriden)  (Read 3999 times)
bore
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« on: November 23, 2014, 11:11:19 AM »
« edited: December 29, 2014, 09:21:12 AM by Senator bore »

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windjammer
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 12:09:33 PM »

Well,
If I understand correctly, this bill ends basically the potential problem of a union representing workers but not being allowed to receive "union dues", you know the princip of "right-to-work". So I will vote for this bill.
I just would like to slightly modify 1d and 1e:
-the wording of 1d is too vague, how can a representation fee be considered as "excessive"?
-1f: there are many workers at minimum wage, right? So, that risks to represent an important cost for the federal government. I would prefer a gradual financial help made on the basis of income rathen than totally subsidizing it, or something similar Tongue.
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TNF
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 03:05:59 PM »

That's actually incorrect, windjammer. Atlasia already permits the closed shop, so if you work in a unionized workplace, joining a union is a condition of employment.

This bill, in effect, would allow a labor union representing all the workers in one sector to bargain directly with employers in that sector, allowing for wages to be set across industry. So for example, the United Food and Commercial Workers union would bargain not with an individual grocery chain, but with all grocery chains organized into an employer federation, so as to streamline the process and end the kind of race to the bottom in wages and benefits that currently characterizes Atlasian capitalism.
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windjammer
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2014, 03:15:25 PM »

Well,
I will still vote for this bill Tongue.
I will introduce amendments in the coming days!
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Cranberry
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 11:51:54 AM »

Maybe that's just me coming from a country where a national union of all workers in a sector bargain with a national "union" of all employers in a sector, but I've always preferred that kind of, or a similar, situation. We are of course taking "a man's right to bargain with his employer individually", but I guess Senator TNF can perfectly live with that situation Tongue
That said, I am supportive of this bill. I'm also interested to see Senator Windjammer's amendments.
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windjammer
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 02:08:21 PM »

Before writing the amendment, I made some search and it appears on average, union dues are globally 400 dollars a year per person.

Is it correct???
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 02:48:23 PM »

This bill is hostile to Atlasian liberty. Now I know why TNF wanted to repeal Taft-Hartley and by extension Griffith-Landrum. To permanently protect mandated union membership/closed shop to work in certian industries. This will drive much needed manufacturing jobs into the third world while further damaging our own manufacturering base which is sorely in need of revitalization.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 03:13:01 PM »

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I dislike the notion that a specific union can be granted exclusive authority to negotiate on behalf of every employee within an economic sector, even those represented by another union. For the sake of example, let's say "public primary education" is considered an economic sector, and 55% of public school teachers are members of the NEA while 45% are members of the AFT. Shouldn't the AFT get a seat at the table?
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TNF
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2014, 10:41:01 AM »

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I dislike the notion that a specific union can be granted exclusive authority to negotiate on behalf of every employee within an economic sector, even those represented by another union. For the sake of example, let's say "public primary education" is considered an economic sector, and 55% of public school teachers are members of the NEA while 45% are members of the AFT. Shouldn't the AFT get a seat at the table?

I would be fine with that, provided that both the unions in question are negotiating as a single unit. Allowing two separate bargaining processes would undermine the point of the bill.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2014, 11:55:50 AM »

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I dislike the notion that a specific union can be granted exclusive authority to negotiate on behalf of every employee within an economic sector, even those represented by another union. For the sake of example, let's say "public primary education" is considered an economic sector, and 55% of public school teachers are members of the NEA while 45% are members of the AFT. Shouldn't the AFT get a seat at the table?

I would be fine with that, provided that both the unions in question are negotiating as a single unit. Allowing two separate bargaining processes would undermine the point of the bill.

Wouldn't the language in the bill establish that both unions, given they have a membership of more than 30% of employees in the sector, be regarded as "the union in question"? I would then assume that everything would apply to both unions in tandem.
But I would say, it would certainly not hurt to include a provision that if two or three unions have a sizeable membership, they should act in tan/tri-dem.
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windjammer
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2014, 04:49:15 PM »

Before writing the amendment, I made some search and it appears on average, union dues are globally 400 dollars a year per person.

Is it correct???
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Lumine
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2014, 06:44:58 PM »

To be fair, I'm not really a fan of this one. I don't think a single union should really take over representation of such wide sectors, and I fail to see the need of having huge parts of any economic sector essentially losing their own representation (we could see an scenarion in which, per 1am, up to the 49% of a sector could be forced to accept an union that might not even be representative for them).
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2014, 01:00:19 AM »

Given that Atlasian labor laws give employers little choice but to accept the demands of labor unions or totally shut down operations due to a strike (which they have no way to deal with due to the ban on hiring replacement workers under any circumstances). Enabling union to monopolize representation in an entire industry would enable said unions to conduct industry-wide strikes which, due to the aforementioned ban on scabs, employers would have no way of dealing with. In other words, unions would essentially be able to shut down entire industries at will. This potential for disrupting production to such a radical degree would create massive economic uncertainty (nearly every business is put on unsound footing when the production of the goods it sells could cease at any moment, and investing in capital projects, starting/expanding a business, etc all become much riskier as well), and be terrible for consumers who would have to deal with entire categories of products disappearing from stores while unions elected by as little as 51% of workers in an industry imposed their arbitrary will on millions of people.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 03:02:30 AM »

Given that Atlasian labor laws give employers little choice but to accept the demands of labor unions or totally shut down operations due to a strike (which they have no way to deal with due to the ban on hiring replacement workers under any circumstances). Enabling union to monopolize representation in an entire industry would enable said unions to conduct industry-wide strikes which, due to the aforementioned ban on scabs, employers would have no way of dealing with. In other words, unions would essentially be able to shut down entire industries at will. This potential for disrupting production to such a radical degree would create massive economic uncertainty (nearly every business is put on unsound footing when the production of the goods it sells could cease at any moment, and investing in capital projects, starting/expanding a business, etc all become much riskier as well), and be terrible for consumers who would have to deal with entire categories of products disappearing from stores while unions elected by as little as 51% of workers in an industry imposed their arbitrary will on millions of people.

So why don't we give employers their power back and restore balance between labor and management.
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windjammer
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2014, 03:00:32 PM »

Before writing the amendment, I made some search and it appears on average, union dues are globally 400 dollars a year per person.

Is it correct???
No one can confirm?
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2014, 02:02:00 AM »

Before writing the amendment, I made some search and it appears on average, union dues are globally 400 dollars a year per person.

Is it correct???
No one can confirm?
If you found a reliable source stating as much, why would you need others to confirm your findings?
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windjammer
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2014, 05:21:22 AM »

Before writing the amendment, I made some search and it appears on average, union dues are globally 400 dollars a year per person.

Is it correct???
No one can confirm?
If you found a reliable source stating as much, why would you need others to confirm your findings?
Because I m not sure this is a reliable source
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2014, 05:29:20 PM »

This has been sitting a while.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2014, 09:07:04 AM »

I guess Windjammer wanted to present an amendment here...
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TNF
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2014, 10:32:33 AM »

I guess Windjammer wanted to present an amendment here...

Yeah, this is what I have been waiting on.
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windjammer
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2014, 11:44:06 AM »

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Please Bore, Ii'm not posting that as an amendment, I would like to have the opinion of my colleagues.

I'm sorry for having been late but I'm definitely not sure if union dues are on average 400 dollars a month per person. My amendment would just try to fix 1d because I believe right now, this is a bit vague.
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windjammer
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2014, 07:01:42 AM »

Bump
Tongue
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TNF
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« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2014, 02:25:29 PM »

I don't think it's the place of the federal government to limit what can be agreed upon in the form of union dues, to be frank.
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windjammer
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« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2014, 02:26:26 PM »

I don't think it's the place of the federal government to limit what can be agreed upon in the form of union dues, to be frank.
So you want to get rid of 1d completely?
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TNF
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« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2014, 01:55:03 PM »

I don't think it's the place of the federal government to limit what can be agreed upon in the form of union dues, to be frank.
So you want to get rid of 1d completely?

Ideally, yes. The reason it's still in was that it was part of the compromise bill that was ultimately unable to pass last time around.
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