I went to church in a suburb today

[DavidB.]

There are also "synagogues" like this, at least in the US. Wouldn't enter them if I got payed big money for it, and that's quite the Jewish dilemma

[DavidB.]

No, there's actually quite a difference. Said synagogues tend to be very loose in terms of theology too and are more just social clubs for ethnic Jews. But this church and the rest of the emergent church movement like it are pretty orthodox (small "o") theologically and it's really NOT possible for anyone going to be simply "culturally emergent", if you're an adult and you go to an emergent church, you have to be a convert. (Well I suppose it's possible if you're in your very early twenties and your parents were very early adopters of it, but that's a miniscule number of people.) And thus there is not any real connection to ethnic background in numbers either. (well except for being almost all white people) No one goes to an emergent church just because they are "culturally" Christian, it's because they believe in Jesus Christ.

I'm actually not sure. While I would agree that many Jews who go to such "temples" do not necessarily believe in the G-d of mainstream orthodox Judaism, I don't think Thomas from NJ would agree with the St. Louis Park church's characterization of the Christian God either. Some Reform temples are, indeed, more ethnic "social clubs" than actual congregations, but in many Reform temples (particularly in the most SJW-like ones), people do believe that it is upon the Jews to be a light to the world and to contribute to repairing the world ("tikkun olam"), and here's where the SJW angle becomes relevant. This is, by the way, theological garbage, as is explained here, but people still perceive Judaism that way and my opinion of this phenomenon is therefore not really relevant, just as Thomas from NJ's opinion of SJW churches' theology doesn't change the fact that there are Christians who do believe in Jesus as an "all liberal, all the time" SJW.

Also don't forget "faith" is much less of a necessity to function in a Jewish congregation than in a Christian congregation to begin with. For instance, I have no idea if the hazzan of my (orthodox) shul believes in G-d (though probably he does), and I'm even less sure about my fellow congregants. It does not really matter.

Your post about the sermon you attended, by the way, immediately reminded me of this.

[DavidB.]

This wouldn't surprise me with a Reformed Jewish temple, but I'm a little surprised that it is the case for an Orthodox Jewish synagogue.  I would tend to think that the myriad of requirements (like eating kosher and observing the sabbath) for being an observant Orthodox Jew would discourage people with little faith from staying in the fold - is that due to the social benefits/cohesion of being in that group?

Also, I thought your statement about tikkun olam was interesting - that seems to explain the social justice tendencies of many Jews, especially more secular ones like Bernie Sanders.

I have to add that only a minority of the people who to go my orthodox shul do actually keep all the commandments, including shabbat and kashrut. Most of them are like me: we sin, but we still want "the real thing" and don't try to find any excuses for it. Obviously one would, as you rightly assumed, say it is more likely for people who are shomer mitzvot (=keep all the commandments) to believe in G-d, and I do think even most of the less observant ones believe in Him. My point was mainly that it isn't that much of a thing, in the sense that most people probably believe in G-d (which is why I think my hazzan believes in G-d, even if I'm not sure), but there's no way to know if you don't talk about it with them -- whereas there is no reason for people to go to church all the time (bar social pressure and the like) if they don't believe.

There's of course also a lot of Jewish progressives that don't connect their progressivism to their Judaism, so I'd be careful to say that people like Sanders really believe in the notion of tikkun olam in a religious sense. They might have "secular" reasons to be progressives as Jews, not related to belief ("we were once poor and discriminated"). Many Jews in the US have historically always been socialists, of course, and some of them were secular when they immigrated already.

[DavidB.]

Interesting.....I guess my question is, what is the additional "draw" that would get people to go to a Jewish service regardless of belief that does not exist in Christianity?  Is it shared lineage/experience/culture?

Yes. The idea of standing within a tradition that goes back for centuries and being responsible for continuing this tradition. Jews in Europe also get confronted with being Jewish often (more so than in the US, I'd wager) and it seems there are fewer non-religious Jewish events, so people go to synagogue to stay in touch with their roots -- although non-religious reasons are much more important for Jews who go to Reform shuls (which, in the Netherlands, are much more conservative than most Reform shuls in the US) than to Orthodox shuls.

But I'll reiterate that most people do believe, especially in Orthodox shuls, and this is a main reason for people going to shul. It's just that believing in itself is less of a necessity for functioning or for finding your place within a Jewish congregation, and that even goes for Orthodox shuls.

[DavidB.]

I feel as if BRTD has become much more conservative over the last couple of years.