Grand jury reaches decision in Ferguson case (Announcement Monday night)
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  Grand jury reaches decision in Ferguson case (Announcement Monday night)
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Author Topic: Grand jury reaches decision in Ferguson case (Announcement Monday night)  (Read 48224 times)
Oakvale
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« Reply #200 on: November 25, 2014, 02:56:16 AM »


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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #201 on: November 25, 2014, 03:00:04 AM »

The vibe I got from the Prosecutor was that this would have likely never even been looked at, but due to the publicity they gave it a fair shot. No indictment doesn't mean you riot. White people did not riot after O.J.

Thanks for that distinction.

I don't mean to hit a nerve, but you know it's the truth. If Michael Brown were white, would Barack Obama have spoken to the country tonight?

Quite the contrary: I'm glad you said it, because it frankly punches a hole in your whole little facade - the one I've seen from you before where you try to paint a picture of a glorious, post-racial America in which those who talk about race are the real agitators and "we're all Americans: why can't liberals just accept that and stop dividing America?" - and exposes your worldview for what it is:

"America is a place where white people can not-so-subtly insinuate that blacks are violent, savage ape-people who deserve everything that's coming to them, but don't you dare criticize us God-fearing conservative whites for pointing that out, because that would be race-baiting and divisive.
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shua
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« Reply #202 on: November 25, 2014, 03:19:29 AM »

The vibe I got from the Prosecutor was that this would have likely never even been looked at, but due to the publicity they gave it a fair shot. No indictment doesn't mean you riot. White people did not riot after O.J.

Thanks for that distinction.

I don't mean to hit a nerve, but you know it's the truth. If Michael Brown were white, would Barack Obama have spoken to the country tonight?

You are right that he most likely wouldn't and it is because the situation got publicity.  They did have to do the grand jury whether or not the prosecutors thought they had a case to put against him, for that reason.   But the reason it got so much publicity is that it is a symbol, a synecdoche, of a larger threat that many blacks feel from the police. And because there is a history here of abuse and antagonism, they may feel that threat as being toward the community and not just toward just lone individuals.  Whites can feel a threat from the police at times, but it tends not to be as pervasive and there is not the same history.
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shua
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« Reply #203 on: November 25, 2014, 03:33:29 AM »
« Edited: November 25, 2014, 03:35:11 AM by shua »

here's a map of the businesses that have been burned down in Ferguson (there may be more at this point):
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TNF
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« Reply #204 on: November 25, 2014, 03:57:37 AM »

You know, black-white relationships isn't the reason why he wasn't indicted.

In Quebec, we had various issues of policemen shooting on people without reason or speeding without reason, crashing into cars and killing people. Guess what? No indictments, even if both the policeman and the victim were very white. Police and prosecutors cover each other. Thankfully, Quebec gets a reform of that next year (well, the reform is done, but there is normal delays, you can't create a new structure the day the bill passes).

Yes, they were. You don't understand how the criminal justice system works in the United States.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #205 on: November 25, 2014, 04:12:15 AM »

The vibe I got from the Prosecutor was that this would have likely never even been looked at, but due to the publicity they gave it a fair shot. No indictment doesn't mean you riot. White people did not riot after O.J.

Nah, white people only riot when their sports teams win.



Or lose.



Or when their beloved sports figures turn out to be serial rapists.

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Eraserhead
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« Reply #206 on: November 25, 2014, 04:28:04 AM »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/ferguson-grand-jury-witness_n_6216508.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&ir=Politics
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #207 on: November 25, 2014, 07:29:52 AM »

Well, looks like our Southern posters are really pulling out all the stops tonight.
I hadn't really noticed Harry, Sanchez, Flo, etc., being particularly obnoxious.  Granted, there has been one particularly odious poster, but to equate him with all Southerners misses the boat in several ways.  For one thing, as has already been pointed out, he's in the minority of our Southern posters.  For another, his IP resolves back to Massachusetts not Arkansas.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #208 on: November 25, 2014, 07:47:48 AM »

If you're going to riot and burn things, why would you do it to your own town?
For most of the people there, Ferguson isn't their town.
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Nathan
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« Reply #209 on: November 25, 2014, 08:29:02 AM »

The fact that some liberals earlier in this thread were cheering this violence on is disgusting. Think of all the people who will be out of work after this.

The fact you cheer on the lethal violence perpetrated against Michael Brown is also disgusting.
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20RP12
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« Reply #210 on: November 25, 2014, 08:35:28 AM »

Well, looks like our Southern posters are really pulling out all the stops tonight.

I hadn't really noticed Harry, Sanchez, Flo, etc., being particularly obnoxious.  Granted, there has been one particularly odious poster, but to equate him with all Southerners misses the boat in several ways.  For one thing, as has already been pointed out, he's in the minority of our Southern posters.  For another, his IP resolves back to Massachusetts not Arkansas.

I was talking about Dixie and Bushie anyway.
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #211 on: November 25, 2014, 08:50:50 AM »

Sigh... this is what happens when stupidity meets stupidity.
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ingemann
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« Reply #212 on: November 25, 2014, 09:09:42 AM »

If you're going to riot and burn things, why would you do it to your own town?

It's not their own town. They don't actually own it. They don't own homes, they don't know businesses, many of them have to take public transportation. They don't pay property taxes. Ferguson, MO is just a place they happen to be stuck living in, not their own community.

That's why it's not that hard to imagine why people there would be so comfortable in destroying it.

They are destroying rented homes, rented businesses, and rioting on rented streets. No liability to them.

Its more than that...they still shop at these places, live around those streets, etc.

The same people destroying the walmart tonight are going to be mad that its not open for 2 weeks after this.



It's not really more than that. If anything, they are creating economic prosperity for themselves. Wal-Mart will now have to further increase holiday staffing to clean up the mess. Nobody has any reason to care about the cost of the damage.

Until they are given real stable opportunity to own businesses and homes of their own, nobody will ever care about the cost of the damage.

But will Wal-Mart keep open the shop up again, Ferguson have seen a large demographic change from 2000 to 2010, it has become blacker and poorer (and I doubt we see that will turn around with what Ferguson now is famous for), there is a major risk than many of these shops, will just close down and their owners open new ones other places.
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #213 on: November 25, 2014, 09:29:17 AM »

Well, seems like this has once against completely broken down along party and/or ideological lines, furthering my assumption that at the heart of American conservatism is something very, very bad. 

And they have every right to strike fear into the heart of the pig with this justified outburst against the racist system that continues to **** them.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #214 on: November 25, 2014, 09:35:16 AM »

We know that Officer Wilson will need to remain in hiding for quite sometime or move.  Maybe he and Casey Anthony should hook up?

Mods, please ban.
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Figs
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« Reply #215 on: November 25, 2014, 10:32:06 AM »

I mean are we just ignoring the robbery, the assault, the grabbing the gun, etc, etc? You guys seem to be engaging in the sort of "truthiness" that conservatives are so often mocked for; you built a narrative about what happened and you're just ignoring or rejecting any sort of evidence (i.e. most of it) that goes against it.
 
Is this modern liberalism? Proclaiming violent thuggish criminals to be martyrs and his assaulted victim to be a cold-blooded bigoted murder? If so, as it sadly seems, Rawls was wrong about liberalism, dead wrong. As I said:

I am a person who sees no reason to believe that a literal and indisputable robber and assaulter, perhaps even a committer of hate crimes (he said some nasty things to the South Asian shopkeeper, if I recall correctly), was somehow the innocent victim of a bloodthirsty bigot who just happened to coincidentally be in the area as the aforementioned assailant and robber was fleeing the scene.

Somehow the rest of you are privy to a completely different series of facts, apparently.

Let's go back to this. I've never actually seen a realistic accounting of the initial confrontation between Brown and Wilson. Wilson says he told Brown and Johnson to get off the street, "words were exchanged," he tried to block them with his car, Brown assaulted him, dove into the car, tried to get his gun, etc.

Do we view this as entirely realistic? Or do we totally take it at face value? When Wilson says "words were exchanged," is it not reasonable to believe that those words may have been something like, "You two a**holes better get the f**k out of the road"? Is it not reasonable to believe that when Wilson says he tried to block them with his car, that he may have slammed open his door into Brown, who pushed back at it?

I'm not saying that's how things happened, but that's exactly the kind of thing that an adversarial process would investigate and draw out. But instead we're only left with Wilson's neutered account of the "demon" charging at him like a bull.
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memphis
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« Reply #216 on: November 25, 2014, 10:44:23 AM »

Why are people under the impression that police will not shoot and kill white people?
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=200769.0

At the same time, anybody being shot and killed is a tragedy. I don't know why the right so fervently wants to believe otherwise. It says something very unsavory about their attitude toward life, especially when so many of them otherwise wrap themselves inside a "pro-life" label.

This:
The same people destroying the walmart tonight are going to be mad that its not open for 2 weeks after this.
is also true. Though the rioters are a small minority of the public in Ferguson, they are making life harder for the vast majority of people there. These fools have nothing but "I'm gonna get me some free stuff" on their minds and it's absurd that a bunch of of True Leftist suburban white kids would think otherwise. Here is Aretha Franklin's reaction to the 1967 Detroit riots. She was smart enough to connect the dots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsL9UL9qbv8
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #217 on: November 25, 2014, 10:47:51 AM »

Why are people under the impression that police will not shoot and kill white people?
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=200769.0


Yea, but it would've taken a lot more for this pig to open fire on a fellow white, of course.  
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DemPGH
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« Reply #218 on: November 25, 2014, 10:57:54 AM »

This of course is disturbing, but what I fear is that what decisions like this do is just embolden the thug cops and the bully cops that are out there. I mean if we're going to discount testimony to take the cop's word, that's a very dangerous thing to start doing.
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Beet
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« Reply #219 on: November 25, 2014, 10:58:24 AM »

I'm 5'5 and would never consider fighting another 5'5 man (even 40% heavier) to be someone "bigger and stronger" even if it is technically true. "Fatter and heavier" is more like it. Brown was fatter and heavier. Ask me about fighting someone "bigger and stronger"  is more like me vs. someone who's 6'1, in my mind. You can't put it on the same level, someone who is the same height as you vs. someone who is six inches or more taller. Officer Wilson is 6'4 so he is probably used to dealing with shorter people 95% of the time, I don't think he really knows what it feels like to be physically intimidated.
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
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« Reply #220 on: November 25, 2014, 11:36:01 AM »

Well, seems like this has once against completely broken down along party and/or ideological lines, furthering my assumption that at the heart of American conservatism is something very, very bad. 

Strange, because I remember that a lot of conservatives I know (including my parents) thought that Zimmerman was guilty.  I'm sure it's the same with this.  As soon as I heard the report I thought that Wilson shouldn't have shot the teenager.  And I'm very conservative.
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20RP12
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« Reply #221 on: November 25, 2014, 11:37:25 AM »

Well, seems like this has once against completely broken down along party and/or ideological lines, furthering my assumption that at the heart of American conservatism is something very, very bad. 

Strange, because I remember that a lot of conservatives I know (including my parents) thought that Zimmerman was guilty.  I'm sure it's the same with this.  As soon as I heard the report I thought that Wilson shouldn't have shot the teenager.  And I'm very conservative.

lolwhat? Did you watch Fox News for at least 10 seconds during Zimmerman's trial?
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
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« Reply #222 on: November 25, 2014, 11:54:49 AM »

Well, seems like this has once against completely broken down along party and/or ideological lines, furthering my assumption that at the heart of American conservatism is something very, very bad. 

Strange, because I remember that a lot of conservatives I know (including my parents) thought that Zimmerman was guilty.  I'm sure it's the same with this.  As soon as I heard the report I thought that Wilson shouldn't have shot the teenager.  And I'm very conservative.

lolwhat? Did you watch Fox News for at least 10 seconds during Zimmerman's trial?

I try to avoid FOX News, and have for a few years.  I did watch some of it but I turned it off.  I remember that my conservative parents thought that Zimmerman wasn't acting within his rights and nor did I.  My mom especially, who despises Obama, wasn't buying what they were saying on FOX.  There were a few of my Republican friends at high school thought that Trayvon shouldn't have been shot.
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useful idiot
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« Reply #223 on: November 25, 2014, 11:55:34 AM »

He should have been indicted on one of the possible manslaughter charges, but cheering on this sort of behavior and excusing it in any way just shows that you think the justice system should be blackmailed and beholden to the to will of a violent mob. Do what we say or we'll burn the city down, destroy the livelihoods of people who had nothing to do with the case, and intimidate anyone who thinks to the contrary.

Is the supposed justification real? Yes, the police in this country are out of control and an outright police state is not far off (which combined with our levels of corruption, makes for a situation that will only get worse and worse in the future). What do the businesses that actually make the city livable by providing jobs and services to the community have to do with that?

The rioters got the decision from the jury that they wanted, let's not kid ourselves and pretend otherwise. If it was really outrage at the verdict they'd be attacking cops, not burning down Little Caesar's and stealing flat-screens. Most people in the country realize that, and it is a shame because the actual problem that these people claim to be rioting over is going to be overshadowed and dismissed because of their actions.




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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #224 on: November 25, 2014, 12:02:17 PM »

Well, seems like this has once against completely broken down along party and/or ideological lines, furthering my assumption that at the heart of American conservatism is something very, very bad. 

Strange, because I remember that a lot of conservatives I know (including my parents) thought that Zimmerman was guilty.  I'm sure it's the same with this.  As soon as I heard the report I thought that Wilson shouldn't have shot the teenager.  And I'm very conservative.

You're the exception and not the rule then.  
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