Grand jury reaches decision in Ferguson case (Announcement Monday night)

[they don't love you like i love you]

This makes me miss opebo even more than normal.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It is strange that some feel the need to stand up for the violent cigar thief over America's finest.

If Wilson is America's finest, then America truly has come to ruin.  Even under the most charitable view of what happened, he lacks the judgement someone who wields a gun should have.  The only badge he should ever be trusted with in the future is as an unarmed parking violation enforcement officer, and even that is being generous.

[Eraserhead]

It is strange that some feel the need to stand up for the violent cigar thief over America's finest.

If Wilson is America's finest, then America truly has come to ruin.  Even under the most charitable view of what happened, he lacks the judgement someone who wields a gun should have.  The only badge he should ever be trusted with in the future is as an unarmed parking violation enforcement officer, and even that is being generous.

Well said.

[J. J.]

Have any of actually read the grand jury stuff? 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Haven't heard anything about rioting yet tonight. There just seems to be a whole bunch of peaceful protests. Perhaps the worst is over.

Doesn't seem to be as bad as last night, but a police car has been put on fire and then the police responded  with tear gas when the crowd didn't disperse.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

good article here on Ezra Klein on the testimonies of
Wilson and Brown's friend  http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7287443/dorian-johnson-story

[Mr. Smith]

@SLC: Pfft you're not a leftist of a religion pigeonholed to the right.

@BerkeleyButcher, Reaganfan: Unfortunately...yes. Otherwise Strom Thurmond and a good number of slave owners would not be racists because of relations with black women.

[MaxQue]

You know, black-white relationships isn't the reason why he wasn't indicted.

In Quebec, we had various issues of policemen shooting on people without reason or speeding without reason, crashing into cars and killing people. Guess what? No indictments, even if both the policeman and the victim were very white. Police and prosecutors cover each other. Thankfully, Quebec gets a reform of that next year (well, the reform is done, but there is normal delays, you can't create a new structure the day the bill passes).

Yes, they were. You don't understand how the criminal justice system works in the United States.

I understand well. It's the "police-prosecutor-(sometimes private prisons)" establishment vs. weak people not being able to defend themselves from law abuses. Most black people are part of the latter, but they're not alone in that latter group.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You know, black-white relationships isn't the reason why he wasn't indicted.

In Quebec, we had various issues of policemen shooting on people without reason or speeding without reason, crashing into cars and killing people. Guess what? No indictments, even if both the policeman and the victim were very white. Police and prosecutors cover each other. Thankfully, Quebec gets a reform of that next year (well, the reform is done, but there is normal delays, you can't create a new structure the day the bill passes).

Yes, they were. You don't understand how the criminal justice system works in the United States.

I understand well. It's the "police-prosecutor-(sometimes private prisons)" establishment vs. weak people not being able to defend themselves from law abuses. Most black people are part of the latter, but they're not alone in that latter group.

The prosecutor is supposed to prosecute. But I guess the son of a white cop who may have been killed by a black man is going to side with the white cops 100% of the time. This isn't the first time his racism in letting white cops off has come out.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/killed-robert-mccullochs-father

[Reaganfan]

You know, black-white relationships isn't the reason why he wasn't indicted.

In Quebec, we had various issues of policemen shooting on people without reason or speeding without reason, crashing into cars and killing people. Guess what? No indictments, even if both the policeman and the victim were very white. Police and prosecutors cover each other. Thankfully, Quebec gets a reform of that next year (well, the reform is done, but there is normal delays, you can't create a new structure the day the bill passes).

Yes, they were. You don't understand how the criminal justice system works in the United States.

I understand well. It's the "police-prosecutor-(sometimes private prisons)" establishment vs. weak people not being able to defend themselves from law abuses. Most black people are part of the latter, but they're not alone in that latter group.

The prosecutor is supposed to prosecute. But I guess the son of a white cop killed by a black man is going to side with the white cops 100% of the time. This isn't the first time his racist has come out.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/killed-robert-mccullochs-father

Even had this gone to trial, the general agreement is that there was no way in hell they would have found the officer guilty.

[RedSLC]

@SLC: Pfft you're not a leftist of a religion pigeonholed to the right.

If only you were here while Zioneer posted here. You two would get along well. Sadly, he's on a mission right now, so you'll have to wait.

[Bacon King]

Breaking news: Officer Darren Wilson's prosecutor is the president of an organization selling "I SUPPORT OFFICER D WILSON" tee shirts

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43839_Is_St._Louis_County_Prosecutor_Robert_McCulloch_Helping_Raise_Money_for_Ofc._Darren_Wilson?p=1

[Eraserhead]

^ Wow.

In non-breaking news, Peter King is still the worst.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/politics/king-to-obama-invite-wilson-to-white-house/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Adam Griffin]

In ATL tonight, there were quite a few protests. At least 20 people were arrested (including reporters who were videoing the scene) after protesters managed to block southbound traffic for about 15 minutes at the Downtown Connector along I-75/I-85 (for those who don't know ATL, this is the main artery of traffic through the city. There were also several reports of broken windows in businesses and vehicles.

Facebook video of blocked traffic on interstate

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2014/11/25/protests-atlanta-ferguson/70120784/

[Adam Griffin]

Probably not related, but:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Breaking news: Officer Darren Wilson's prosecutor is the president of an organization selling "I SUPPORT OFFICER D WILSON" tee shirts

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43839_Is_St._Louis_County_Prosecutor_Robert_McCulloch_Helping_Raise_Money_for_Ofc._Darren_Wilson?p=1

Wow, that blog used to be right-wing.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

You know, black-white relationships isn't the reason why he wasn't indicted.

In Quebec, we had various issues of policemen shooting on people without reason or speeding without reason, crashing into cars and killing people. Guess what? No indictments, even if both the policeman and the victim were very white. Police and prosecutors cover each other. Thankfully, Quebec gets a reform of that next year (well, the reform is done, but there is normal delays, you can't create a new structure the day the bill passes).

Yes, they were. You don't understand how the criminal justice system works in the United States.

I understand well. It's the "police-prosecutor-(sometimes private prisons)" establishment vs. weak people not being able to defend themselves from law abuses. Most black people are part of the latter, but they're not alone in that latter group.

The prosecutor is supposed to prosecute. But I guess the son of a white cop killed by a black man is going to side with the white cops 100% of the time. This isn't the first time his racist has come out.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/killed-robert-mccullochs-father

Even had this gone to trial, the general agreement is that there was no way in hell they would have found the officer guilty.

Some principles matter more than probability of success.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Some principles matter more than probability of success.

I think the prosecutor succeeded in his aim.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Some principles matter more than probability of success.

I think the prosecutor succeeded in his aim.

Of course he did.

[Silent Hunter]

You know what the best thing is... have a civil trial instead. Sue the department for wrongful death, let the jury decide on the balance of probabilities who is right.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

You know what the best thing is... have a civil trial instead. Sue the department for wrongful death, let the jury decide on the balance of probabilities who is right.

There was/is going to be a civil trial regardless of the Grand Jury decision.

[Silent Hunter]

Precisely.

[anvi]

Will throw in my half-cent, I guess.  

It seems to me the Ferguson police department is run with incredible incompetence and general heavy-handedness.  They have not recruited officers that are likely to build good relationships with the community; from what people in the area report, they profile quite a bit; instead of doing outreach and direct communication with the people they police, the department deals with the public through bad press releases, document dumps, and when those don't work, they put on riot gear and pull out the big guns.  They've built no trust whatsoever with the community, so when things like this happen, already having no trust, they continue to act, for the most part, horribly.  And all this does appear symptomatic of a larger national issue regarding the police and communities of color.  I hope the feds overhaul the place as they've overhauled other departments.

I'm a lot less certain about the specifics of this case than others appear to be.  I haven't read too much--a little testimony from the witnesses that has been released, the autopsy and forensics reports.  I try not to read editorialized testimony in these cases, because editors cut and paste wherever they see fit.  The prosecutor, given his own background, should have found a way to recuse himself from the beginning,  Returning no indictment given his background was bound to stink to high heaven.  It's hard for me to criticize the ruling of the grand jury per se; it consisted of nine white and three black jurors, and they unanimously declined to indict on five separate charges of varying degrees on the basis of lots of conflicting testimony and relatively straightforward forensic evidence that indicated Brown was at the very least facing Wilson when he was shot after a struggle in which the officer suffered some minor contusions.  They probably did feel that all this would not have a great chance of resulting in a guilty verdict in a courtroom where "beyond a reasonable doubt" would be the standard.  On the other hand, had the case been deemed worthy for trial, I think that would have made sense--an unarmed victim shot by an armed police offers under ultimately unclear circumstances perhaps should be tried in a court.  It certainly would have been a better idea for an actual trial to have taken place in view of the sentiments of the community and the fact that the issue had become a national one, though i do understand these are not proper grounds upon which to decide the merits of a possible indictment.  I can't say how I would have ruled as a juror; I wasn't part of the investigation that went on for weeks, and reading a bunch of editorials online and only a few documents from the proceedings is no substitute for that.

The rioting?  I understand the depth of the anger that induced it--it's indicative of much larger and much more persistent problems that need to be addressed on lots of levels by the whole country in more serious ways.  The anger itself I get, and even agree is called for.  But the act of going through with burning down businesses is, I think, a bad thing.  If the interest lies in restoring the well-being of a community, then the business owners and people who work in those businesses are community members too, and destroying those places, run by and worked at by people who had nothing to do with either the shooting or the ruling, only makes things worse in a number of ways.  (And no, dumbass white sports or frat riots are not good by comparison-they're immeasurably less justified.)  

I'm sure my "moderate hero" take on it doesn't satisfy anyone.  But i've been watching this along with everyone else since it's happened, and I do have friends who live, not in Ferguson, but very close to there, and seeing all of this pains me too, so this is what I think of it.  

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The trouble with these sorts of situations is that the police don't particularly care to go after the thirty or so nuts who are smashing stuff up; and instead continue to apply pressure on the peaceful protesters; who are themselves further riled up. Both the police officers and protesters become irrational, angry and prone to bad decisions.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The trouble with these sorts of situations is that the police don't particularly care to go after the thirty or so nuts who are smashing stuff up; and instead continue to apply pressure on the peaceful protesters; who are themselves further riled up. Both the police officers and protesters become irrational, angry and prone to bad decisions.

It's incredibly difficult to successfully go after everyone who is smashing things up in these situations. I don't believe it is a matter of not particularly caring.