Civil Rights Act of 2014 (Passed)
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Author Topic: Civil Rights Act of 2014 (Passed)  (Read 16204 times)
Cranberry
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« Reply #250 on: January 27, 2015, 12:52:50 PM »

AYE
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windjammer
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« Reply #251 on: January 27, 2015, 12:56:24 PM »

Daisy Duke? Is she the fiancee of Donald  Duke (Picsou, Riri, Fifi, Loulou,...). What's the problem with her? She seems to be respectable.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #252 on: January 27, 2015, 12:58:30 PM »

Aye



You're seriously saying schools and workplaces can't prohibit daisy dukes as a matter of civil rights?  What do racial and gender quotas, irrespective of the number of qualified applicants, have to do with highway funding?

I urge the President to veto this absurd legislation should it pass.

It doesn't have anything to do with highway funding, but then neither does the alcohol age.

It quite clearly does say something about highway construction, in fact, as a direct response to region not following exactly this proportions -

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Now I'll say the Senate worked hard to make this semi-workable, and to their credit, it's not as bad as it could be. But this is far beyond anything I would ever want, and I hope a redraft is in the works.
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bore
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« Reply #253 on: January 27, 2015, 03:00:12 PM »

Aye



You're seriously saying schools and workplaces can't prohibit daisy dukes as a matter of civil rights?  What do racial and gender quotas, irrespective of the number of qualified applicants, have to do with highway funding?

I urge the President to veto this absurd legislation should it pass.

It doesn't have anything to do with highway funding, but then neither does the alcohol age.

It quite clearly does say something about highway construction, in fact, as a direct response to region not following exactly this proportions -

Quote
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Now I'll say the Senate worked hard to make this semi-workable, and to their credit, it's not as bad as it could be. But this is far beyond anything I would ever want, and I hope a redraft is in the works.

I'm aware of that. I was referring to this.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #254 on: January 27, 2015, 03:10:44 PM »

Nay

I agree with shua and Maxwell. A lot of progress has been made but there still problems with this legislation. I have hope that such can be worked through in a redraft though if such is forthcoming.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #255 on: January 27, 2015, 03:13:04 PM »

Where was everyone when we were doing the last call for changes? This shouldn't happen.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #256 on: January 27, 2015, 03:44:50 PM »

Moving then working several days straight without any chance to recover my energy.
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Lumine
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« Reply #257 on: January 27, 2015, 05:33:09 PM »

No worries, I will most certainly redraft the current bill once it passes. The veto might have been a tempting choice, but considering that some are already gloating about a potentially sucessful veto override I'm not going to risk this one becoming law without a single modification.
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shua
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« Reply #258 on: January 27, 2015, 06:13:59 PM »

You're seriously saying schools and workplaces can't prohibit daisy dukes as a matter of civil rights?  What do racial and gender quotas, irrespective of the number of qualified applicants, have to do with highway funding?

I urge the President to veto this absurd legislation should it pass.

I think there are ways to be productive about your concern without slandering the entire piece of legislation. A redraft altering the language in question could have a very real chance of passing.

That being said, our society usually expects a higher standard of care for matters related to children, so a non-discriminatory dress code at school could also probably qualify for an exemption.

I didn't mean to slander the Senate's efforts here. I was just taken aback that the Senate was actually close to passing this. I don't understand what passes for centrism in Atlasia. I once thought that it was basically European Social Democracy but that's something far to the right of something like this. You want to pretend that history and society has left us with no statistical differences in interest and ability between people of different genders or ethnicity, and that any differences in hiring are solely the fault of the employer, rather than address the issue with education, and perhaps (gasp!) consider the possibility that their might be differences in what fields people decide to enter into.  You want to pretend people aren't affected by how people in their environment dress, and condemn anyone who thinks otherwise.  It's bad enough you want to do this at the federal level without trying to make the regions pass something similar. Honestly I can barely watch what the Senate does to run over the regions and civil society and still sustain any interest in Atlasia at any level so that's why I didn't comment until the legislation had made the news.
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bore
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« Reply #259 on: January 27, 2015, 06:47:57 PM »

Your issues with those sections seems more of a straw man than what they actually say. It says if a company has a vastly different proportion of, say white to black or male to female workers than their area and, importantly for something like engineering the employment sector the government should intervene. Now it's fine to disagree with that but you've got to recognise it's not the same thing as classical affirmative action, if anything it's a call to recognise employers that systematically discriminate against minorities. It also then leaves the actual laws and guidelines up to the regional governments.
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shua
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« Reply #260 on: January 27, 2015, 07:10:56 PM »

Your issues with those sections seems more of a straw man than what they actually say. It says if a company has a vastly different proportion of, say white to black or male to female workers than their area and, importantly for something like engineering the employment sector the government should intervene. Now it's fine to disagree with that but you've got to recognise it's not the same thing as classical affirmative action, if anything it's a call to recognise employers that systematically discriminate against minorities. It also then leaves the actual laws and guidelines up to the regional governments.
If that is the intention it is worded very oddly.  "Equal" and "not vastly disproportionate" representation are not the same thing.  What do you mean by "engineering the employment sector"? 
It's also strange (but unsurprising) that the regions are supposed to enact guidelines when the Senate isn't even being explicit on what the Federal guidelines should be on this topic.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #261 on: January 27, 2015, 07:35:23 PM »

Where was everyone when we were doing the last call for changes? This shouldn't happen.

I wish I had been a more productive part of the conversation, but to be fair, I haven't been a Senator or a federal officer in years Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #262 on: January 27, 2015, 08:20:30 PM »

If the goals is for the regions to act within this context, then in my view the text is rather vague as to what guidelines can be set. What constitutes vastly dispoportionate and who determines whether the Mideast or Northeast or IDS has or has not an interpretation that comports with the intent of this meeting aside from the Supreme Court?
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Bacon King
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« Reply #263 on: January 27, 2015, 09:00:46 PM »

Aye
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #264 on: January 27, 2015, 09:07:19 PM »

I am changing my vote to abstain and am awaiting the President's re-draft on passage.
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bore
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« Reply #265 on: January 28, 2015, 10:45:37 AM »

Your issues with those sections seems more of a straw man than what they actually say. It says if a company has a vastly different proportion of, say white to black or male to female workers than their area and, importantly for something like engineering the employment sector the government should intervene. Now it's fine to disagree with that but you've got to recognise it's not the same thing as classical affirmative action, if anything it's a call to recognise employers that systematically discriminate against minorities. It also then leaves the actual laws and guidelines up to the regional governments.
If that is the intention it is worded very oddly.  "Equal" and "not vastly disproportionate" representation are not the same thing.  What do you mean by "engineering the employment sector"? 
It's also strange (but unsurprising) that the regions are supposed to enact guidelines when the Senate isn't even being explicit on what the Federal guidelines should be on this topic.

Reasonable proportionate and not vastly disproportionate are basically the same thing (for those more mathematically inclined, they are each other's contrapositive). For the engineering I typed that poorly. What I was getting at is in a sector like engineering where, for whatever reason, the gender ratio is already heavily skewed, so an engineering firm would be assessed based on the ratio in the field, not the population at large. Your last point I can't help but feel is a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't, if there were more explicit federal guidelines I don't doubt that we'd hear complaints that it's strange that the senate should leave it to the regions to enact guidelines when they've already decided exactly what those guidelines are.
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bore
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« Reply #266 on: January 28, 2015, 10:55:57 AM »

Where was everyone when we were doing the last call for changes? This shouldn't happen.

I wish I had been a more productive part of the conversation, but to be fair, I haven't been a Senator or a federal officer in years Tongue

You were AG for a month in March 2014, so that's no excuse Tongue
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Cranberry
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« Reply #267 on: January 28, 2015, 01:10:49 PM »

I'll keep my aye vote; but I'm awaiting the President's redraft.
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windjammer
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« Reply #268 on: January 28, 2015, 01:18:39 PM »

I'll keep my aye vote; but I'm awaiting the President's redraft.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #269 on: January 28, 2015, 05:36:11 PM »

I change my vote to Abstain.
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Lumine
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« Reply #270 on: January 28, 2015, 05:51:40 PM »

Right, I believe the vote will be closed soon, and it does seem like this will pass. The Constitution gives the President about seven days to act on this before it becomes law, so I'll start work on a redraft.
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TNF
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« Reply #271 on: January 29, 2015, 08:10:31 AM »

I will not accept any re-draft that annuls the affirmative action provisions in this bill.
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bore
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« Reply #272 on: January 29, 2015, 03:57:10 PM »

By a vote of 7-2-1 this bill has passed the senate and is sent to the president for executive action

Aye: Bore, Lief, SWE, TNF, Windjammer, Bacon King, Cranberry

Nay: Yankee

Abstain: Cris, Polnut



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Cranberry
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« Reply #273 on: January 30, 2015, 08:39:57 AM »

I will not accept any re-draft that annuls the affirmative action provisions in this bill.

I wouldn't go that far, but yes, I'd like that portion to remain intact.
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TNF
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« Reply #274 on: January 30, 2015, 11:55:24 AM »

That portion is more or less the crux of the bill, as it provides a way by which the oppressed can gain more of a foothold in higher wage, unionized employment.
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