Civil Rights Act of 2014 (Passed)

[Cranberry]

This goes against religious freedoms and as such I will fight to destroy this.

I don't like that 'religious freedom' is a convenient code word for permissible discrimination. But overall, this bill takes a good message, that we should embrace difference and reject intolerance and discrimination to an extreme.

I don't believe that can force tolerance, if it is enforced by law, then it's not real. We need to change people's minds through deed and words.

But this, if passed, would render preaching against homosexuality or abortion as criminal offenses worth taking away the right to keep and bear arms. TNF fails to realize this is a freedom of conscience issue. Atlasians of faith will not stand for their rights of religious conscience to be violated in such manner. The bill would force tolerance down people's throats.

You know how the saying goes - "one's freedom goes as far as it limits one other's". There is a difference between "religious freedom" and preaching against homosexuality or abortion. The latter is not religious freedom, it is bigotry and defamation.

[Cranberry]

Aye for Senator bore's amendment


But yes, despite my remarks that I don't see any religious freedom in preaching against homosexuals or abortion, I am not the biggest fan of this, at least in the current stand. There are some parts I like, bit overall this gets to far. I'm sure however that there can be found a middle way which most are okay with.

[Cranberry]

Aye for Senator bore's amendment


But yes, despite my remarks that I don't see any religious freedom in preaching against homosexuals or abortion, I am not the biggest fan of this, at least in the current stand. There are some parts I like, bit overall this gets to far. I'm sure however that there can be found a middle way which most are okay with.

I do see religious freedom in preaching against homosexuality and abortion. We don't preach against people. We preach against activities that will be destructive in this life and in the life to come. Do I need to site both Christian and Jewish scripture which condem both activities?

The thing is, you cannot divide the people from the activities. If you are preaching against "homosexual activities" you are preaching against the people that "commit" them. If you are preaching against abortion you are preaching against the people who get an abortion. And as Senator Polnut remarked quite pointy, freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. People who want no religion shall be allowed to be left alone with their non-religion, and this is not possible if some guys think they need to preach out loudly against some guys because they do something some three-thousand year old book says. There is just no justification for this. I mean, I couldn't care less if the bible said you had to hop on one feet all day - have fun doing it but please just leave me and everyone else alone.

[Cranberry]

I guess everyone is okay with Sections 5,6,7, BK. At least enough to get this bill passed I would think.

As much as I'm not opposed to quotas in theory, I would guess that they are quite hard to enforce when it comes to quotas regarding LGBTQ-people... After all, I don't think we have a legal definition of who everyone is exactly LGBTQ before the law, how big a share of our population this exactly is, and lastly, if the person in question is or not...

[Cranberry]

Hasn't Section 1 been amended out of the bill?

[Cranberry]

AYE


By the way, bore, what about this?

And I second JCL's motion to table.

[Cranberry]

AYE


By the way, bore, what about this?

And I second JCL's motion to table.

A third senator is needed.

Oh yeah, sorry about that.

[Cranberry]

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That whole clause is a bit strange to me, but that last sentence? TNF, seriously?

[Cranberry]

Nay

Also, this will probably lead to skyrocketing printing costs:

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[Cranberry]

I find Senator Yankee's amendments too adressing my concerns, so I support both of them.

[Cranberry]

So is this a vote now on the bathroom amendment or the language amendment? Didn't Senator TNF say he was friendly with the bathroom amendment?

[Cranberry]

Encouraging English amendment is hostile

Second proposed amendment is friendly

??

[Cranberry]

We're voting on the wrong amendment, are we not?

That's what I've been thinking as well...

[Cranberry]

Aye

I really don't want to think of those printing costs...

[Cranberry]

I object on the grounds that we should actively combat homophobia, cissexism, and heteronormativity.

It is good to see you have great motives with this, Senator, but frankly, the section in question is simply not enforceable. It just isn't, one cannot tell that one is in fact LGBTQ.

[Cranberry]

Aye

[Cranberry]

Aye

[Cranberry]

I will to change my vote to NAY, because of voting for JCL's amendment

[Cranberry]

AYE

[Cranberry]

I'm okay with the amendment, but I'm just not so comfortable with 1.2., the provision that the Republic should give back land to Native Americans... I'm just not sure if that's even doable by now...

[Cranberry]

Yeah I believe so too, Sections 1.1 and 1.2 would really be hard to fulfil...

[Cranberry]

I think the best form of reparations would be based specifically on communities that have been damaged by past injustices. So inside of all descendants of slaves, regardless of wealth getting reparations it should be focused on, say, areas of the Mississippi delta and rather than the bushies and Elizabeth Warren's getting reparations it should be aimed at some of the reservations in South Dakota.

Maybe some sort of fund given a certain amount to dole out to various worthwhile projects?

Your proposal seems sensible to me. It is certainly good and well that we really "do our thing", yet I fear this could become all too excessive. I guess that proposal is good in those points, though.

[Cranberry]

150 seems good to me

AYE

[Cranberry]

I'll support this.

[Cranberry]

Your points seem sensible to me, Hagrid, so I'm looking forward to the amendment and will support it.