Israel General Election Thread: March 17 2015

[Hash]

Cool it.

[Linus Van Pelt]

A rule of the internet with few exceptions: if the defense against a charge of racism is merely that the targeted group is not a "race", then the charge of racism is correct.

[MalaspinaGold]

Panels/Knesset

Likud - 25
Labor/Livini - 24
Jewish Home - 13
United Arab Parties - 12
Yesh Atid - 11
Kulanu - 8
UTJ - 7
Shas - 6
Meretz - 5
Yisrael Beitenu - 5
Racists - 4

Calling Eli Yishai's party "racists" doesn't make sense at all. I suggest you just put "Yachad Ha'am Itanu-Otzma" there.

Well, factually it's correct.

No, it's not. Islam is not a race.

Another poll by Panel today:

Current Knesset seats in [brackets]
26 [18] Likud
22 [20] Zionist Union (Labor-Livni)
13 [11] Bayit Yehudi
12 [11] United Arab List
11 [20] Yesh Atid
08 [07] Yahadut Hatorah/UTJ
07 [02] Koolanu (Kahlon+Kadima)
06 [10] Shas
06 [06] Meretz
05 [13] Yisrael Beitenu
04 [02] Yachad (Yishai+Chetboun+Marzel)

69 [63] Right-Religious-Kahlon (Parties that have not ruled out a BB coalition)
51 [57] Center-Left-Arab (Parties that have ruled out a BB coalition)

Pause for reflection: Kach was banned for being racist
Not all Palestinians are Muslim
I'd mention the awful things marzel has said but I'd feel dirty writing them.

So now the invented "Palestinian" people has even become a "race"? Inventing definitions with lefties never became so original! And getting called a racist by people who would vote for Balad, like "Malaspinagold", would be an honor for me.

Now let's move back to a far more interesting topic: the Israeli elections.

You ARE an idiot (or more likely a sock). I'm a Meretz supporter, as is clearly evident by my previous contributions to this thread.
And for the record, my friend also happened to be at the guy's Hebron house for Shabbat when he heard the stuff.

Seriously, who's sock are you? Tell us, and then banish yourself forever please.

[MalaspinaGold]

So now the invented "Palestinian" people has even become a "race"?

In the same way that the equally invented "Jewish" people did. As a racist yourself, you would have first-hand experience in how this happens.

Lol! Still don't care about Israel haters and Jew bashers calling me a racist, only makes me smile, so thanks for that.

Let's try to keep this thread as calm and reasonable as possible. If this means not commenting on certain matters, then do not comment on those matters. Thanks.

And now I feel we should listen to this wise man, because it would be a shame if this thread would become only a place for fighting.

I am Jewish. You are racist. Please stop.

Also this.

[ag]

So now the invented "Palestinian" people has even become a "race"?

In the same way that the equally invented "Jewish" people did. As a racist yourself, you would have first-hand experience in how this happens.

Lol! Still don't care about Israel haters and Jew bashers calling me a racist, only makes me smile, so thanks for that.

I happen to be Jewish. Which only makes me hate Jewish racists more.

[ag]

Cool it.

Pretty hard to stay cool here It is the old intra-tribal warfare

[MalaspinaGold]

So, a fairly bizarre episode has come into light the previous few days:
An NGO trying to kick out Netanyahu hired Obama's field director from 2012, Jeremy Bird, to do a GOTV effort. Bibi, Bennett, and company have latched onto this, claiming that this is all on Obama's orders, that Zionist Union/Meretz are awash with foreign money, that Bird is working directly with these groups, etc. One guy's even trying to disqualify Meretz/ZU from the election altogether.

This is especially hypocritical considering that Bibi's own campaign director is a Republican strategist himself.

Also, I'm fairly sure this DavidB nut is not from the tribe. It's more likely that he's actually Geert Wilders.

[danny]

So now the invented "Palestinian" people has even become a "race"?

In the same way that the equally invented "Jewish" people did. As a racist yourself, you would have first-hand experience in how this happens.

Lol! Still don't care about Israel haters and Jew bashers calling me a racist, only makes me smile, so thanks for that.

Let's try to keep this thread as calm and reasonable as possible. If this means not commenting on certain matters, then do not comment on those matters. Thanks.

And now I feel we should listen to this wise man, because it would be a shame if this thread would become only a place for fighting.

No one here was Jew bashing stop throwing around such terms carelessly (and I'm a right wing Israeli Jew).

As for the invented Palestinian people, it may be true that the existence of a self defined people calling themselves Palestinian is a relatively recent phenomenon, but that is true for a lot people, and isn't very important anyway right now.

[MalaspinaGold]

danny who will you be supporting in the election?

[danny]

danny who will you be supporting in the election?

Either Likud or JH. I have problems with both parties but I will have to chose one of them.

[Gali]

Cool it.

He is right , you guys need to cool it .

[politicus]

A rule of the internet with few exceptions: if the defense against a charge of racism is merely that the targeted group is not a "race", then the charge of racism is correct.

Not really, like fascist racist tends to be a term thrown around far too much as a common slur.

It is sensible to use another term than racism if you describe hatred and/or prejudice against a non-racially defined group (like a religion or an ethnic group with broadly similar racial origin). Racism carries a powerful stigma so people are tempted to use it for all sorts of related phenomena and that is hardly constructive. You end up with Scottish racism against the English or Yoruba racism against Hausas and such ludicrous things if you go down that road.

The idea that all ethnic or etno-religious hatred or prejudice is "racist" makes the term meaningless. Applying it to things like Christians hating Muslims and vice versa even more so.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

If there's any definition of racism in a diverse ethno-religious society like Israel, this new party seems to fit it.

That being said, claiming they're racist while Islamist parties that support the "All Jews Out" polices of Hamas are not is just plain silly. Ideally both fringes will be kept out of any coalition.

[DavidB.]

Since people can't seem to get over this nonsense:

Also, I'm fairly sure this DavidB nut is not from the tribe. It's more likely that he's actually Geert Wilders.

Hate to break it to ya, but I'm Jewish. Not your typical vegetarian-environmentalist, anti-capitalist, J-Street loving, Israel-"critical", left-wing Jew though.

A rule of the internet with few exceptions: if the defense against a charge of racism is merely that the targeted group is not a "race", then the charge of racism is correct.

It is sensible to use another term than racism if you describe hatred and/or prejudice against a non-racially defined group (like a religion or an ethnic group with broadly similar racial origin). Racism carries a powerful stigma so people are tempted to use it for all sorts of related phenomena and that is hardly constructive. You end up with Scottish racism against the English or Yoruba racism against Hausas and such ludicrous things if you go down that road.

The idea that all ethnic or etno-religious hatred or prejudice is "racist" makes the term meaningless. Applying it to things like Christians hating Muslims and vice versa even more so.

^ This was exactly my point. Calling everything "racism" is not only silly, it's also inaccurate.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But anyway. Stable-ish polls? This can't be a real Israeli election.

[Famous Mortimer]

Polls were pretty stable last time. It was the final results (Yesh Atid in second) that came out of nowhere.

Basically, between the party switching, which ends with the lists being finalized, and the coalition formation, this is going to be a pretty dull thread.

[DavidB.]

Polls were pretty stable last time. It was the final results (Yesh Atid in second) that came out of nowhere.

Basically, between the party switching, which ends with the lists being finalized, and the coalition formation, this is going to be a pretty dull thread.

Polls are boring but coalition formation might become interesting. Eventually everything will probably depend on Yisrael Beiteinu and Kulanu (and, to a lesser extent, Shas). These parties could go with both Herzog and Bibi, although I think it's more likely that Bibi will manage to form a coalition, especially if Likud becomes the biggest party.

[Hnv1]

Herzog is in a pretty rough spot now. Liberman said he won't sit in a centre-left government hence trying to force some sort of unity government with Likud-Labour. Kachlon may dislike (like everybody who ever worked with him) Bibi but he and his base are essentialy Likud through and through. On top of that Shas\UTJ won't sit with Lapid unless the criminal sanctions of the draft law are lifted.

A Labour led centre-left-Haredi government is unlikelier than ever. Oh, and with their attempt to attract soft-right voters they are going to support Zoabi's disqualification (which the SCoJ will undo) and thus pissing off the joint Arab party.

Not the best of week for Labour. I assume they new tactic will be drain as much votes as the can from YA and Meretz so they can come to Bibi stronger when discussing a unity government.

As always the two parties least likely to get my vote are Likud and Labour

[MalaspinaGold]

Herzog is in a pretty rough spot now. Liberman said he won't sit in a centre-left government hence trying to force some sort of unity government with Likud-Labour. Kachlon may dislike (like everybody who ever worked with him) Bibi but he and his base are essentialy Likud through and through. On top of that Shas\UTJ won't sit with Lapid unless the criminal sanctions of the draft law are lifted.

A Labour led centre-left-Haredi government is unlikelier than ever. Oh, and with their attempt to attract soft-right voters they are going to support Zoabi's disqualification (which the SCoJ will undo) and thus pissing off the joint Arab party.

Not the best of week for Labour. I assume they new tactic will be drain as much votes as the can from YA and Meretz so they can come to Bibi stronger when discussing a unity government.

As always the two parties least likely to get my vote are Likud and Labour

Yesh Atid?
There is a legitimate possibility Lieberman is left out of the next coalition entirely. Plus, the fact that most Shas voters are right wing didn't stop them from allying with labor when it suited them- perhaps the same is true of Kachlon. This of course doesn't mean a Herzog government is likely.

Like last time though, labor seems to be doing everything to turn off potential voters from the left.

[Hnv1]

Herzog is in a pretty rough spot now. Liberman said he won't sit in a centre-left government hence trying to force some sort of unity government with Likud-Labour. Kachlon may dislike (like everybody who ever worked with him) Bibi but he and his base are essentialy Likud through and through. On top of that Shas\UTJ won't sit with Lapid unless the criminal sanctions of the draft law are lifted.

A Labour led centre-left-Haredi government is unlikelier than ever. Oh, and with their attempt to attract soft-right voters they are going to support Zoabi's disqualification (which the SCoJ will undo) and thus pissing off the joint Arab party.

Not the best of week for Labour. I assume they new tactic will be drain as much votes as the can from YA and Meretz so they can come to Bibi stronger when discussing a unity government.

As always the two parties least likely to get my vote are Likud and Labour

Yesh Atid?
There is a legitimate possibility Lieberman is left out of the next coalition entirely. Plus, the fact that most Shas voters are right wing didn't stop them from allying with labor when it suited them- perhaps the same is true of Kachlon. This of course doesn't mean a Herzog government is likely.

Like last time though, labor seems to be doing everything to turn off potential voters from the left.

Their campaign is toss so far. They should drink YA blood and attack Likud as an idea. But that's Livni for you, gonna miss out on being PM 3 times in 6 years...not even Peres managed that.

[DavidB.]

How likely is it that a "unity government" with Likud and Labor will be formed, Hnv1? Bibi would of course prefer a right-wing government. It depends on Lieberman and Kachlon. But wouldn't that be a nightmare scenario for Labor?

[danny]

How likely is it that a "unity government" with Likud and Labor will be formed, Hnv1? Bibi would of course prefer a right-wing government. It depends on Lieberman and Kachlon. But wouldn't that be a nightmare scenario for Labor?

He would prefer a unity government. Bibi has shown that he doesn't want to be the most the extreme part of his coalition,  he'll definitely try to avoid an all right wing coalition.

[DavidB.]

How likely is it that a "unity government" with Likud and Labor will be formed, Hnv1? Bibi would of course prefer a right-wing government. It depends on Lieberman and Kachlon. But wouldn't that be a nightmare scenario for Labor?

He would prefer a unity government. Bibi has shown that he doesn't want to be the most the extreme part of his coalition,  he'll definitely try to avoid an all right wing coalition.

Hmm. Interesting thought. It must've been really annoying for him that Uri Ariel used to plan new houses in J&S while he was negotiating with Abu Mazen. But overall, he's had more trouble in the last government - with Yesh Atid and with Livni - than in the government before, I thought.

For Bibi it wouldn't even be that bad, but a unity government might destroy Likud's popularity, although it will probably destroy Labor's popularity even more. That would almost certainly mean new elections within two years.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Bibi mostly wants to be Prime Minister For Life.

[Famous Mortimer]

How likely is it that a "unity government" with Likud and Labor will be formed, Hnv1? Bibi would of course prefer a right-wing government. It depends on Lieberman and Kachlon. But wouldn't that be a nightmare scenario for Labor?

He would prefer a unity government. Bibi has shown that he doesn't want to be the most the extreme part of his coalition,  he'll definitely try to avoid an all right wing coalition.

Hmm. Interesting thought. It must've been really annoying for him that Uri Ariel used to plan new houses in J&S while he was negotiating with Abu Mazen. But overall, he's had more trouble in the last government - with Yesh Atid and with Livni - than in the government before, I thought.

For Bibi it wouldn't even be that bad, but a unity government might destroy Likud's popularity, although it will probably destroy Labor's popularity even more. That would almost certainly mean new elections within two years.

Why do you think a unity government would destroy Likud's popularity? It was in a unity government with Yesh Atid and it had no effect. It was in a unity government with Mofaz's Kadima and it had no effect. It was in a unity government with Barak's Labor and it had no effect. It was in a unity government under Sharon with Ben-Eliezer's Labor and it had no effect. It's been in a government with a party to its left more often than it's not been.