Abolish The Senate
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 07:10:30 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Abolish The Senate
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Author Topic: Abolish The Senate  (Read 3398 times)
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: December 02, 2014, 10:29:05 AM »

A decent column pointing out the inherently undemocratic nature of our upper chamber.
Logged
The Free North
CTRattlesnake
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,567
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 10:52:14 AM »

It was never intended to be perfectly democratic.
Logged
The Free North
CTRattlesnake
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,567
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 10:52:59 AM »

Also, you frequent very strange websites


Logged
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 11:00:11 AM »

It was never intended to be perfectly democratic.

Read the article. It acknowledges that the Senate was not meant to be democratic.
Logged
They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,232
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.29, S: -7.13

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 11:35:24 AM »

It was never intended to be perfectly democratic.

Read the article. It acknowledges that the Senate was not meant to be democratic.

Yeah, I was going to say this. At its roots, the Senate was created to be more how Rod Blagojevich would have had it than how it actually is.
Logged
DrScholl
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,926
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 11:56:46 AM »

I've thought that this should happen for quite awhile. The Senate is quite obsolete and it really needs to go now that certain people have been elected to it. A unicameral house drawn by a federally appointed, independent commission is the way to go.
Logged
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 12:00:59 PM »

Good.
Logged
The_Doctor
SilentCal1924
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,271


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 02:24:58 PM »

I like the Senate. I don't think American democracy should be a fully and wholly Greek style democracy. The Senate is a good check on the popular will and channels it constructively.

I would favor repeal of the 17th Amendment, anyway.
Logged
King
intermoderate
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,357
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 02:51:31 PM »

Replace, not abolish.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,784
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 02:51:40 PM »

I like the Senate. I don't think American democracy should be a fully and wholly Greek style democracy. The Senate is a good check on the popular will and channels it constructively.

I would favor repeal of the 17th Amendment, anyway.
Logged
Bandit3 the Worker
Populist3
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,951


Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -9.92

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 02:54:17 PM »

I think the Senate should be apportioned by population.

I also think the House should be districted without regard to state boundaries. Many districts would cross state lines, but that's just tough.
Logged
Starpaul20
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 284
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.68, S: -5.22

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2014, 03:02:07 PM »

I'd keep the Senate. It may be undemocratic but at least it can stop the House from going bat-s**t insane... sometimes.

State Senates on the other hand...
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2014, 03:31:08 PM »

By representing every state equally, regardless of population, the Senate actually is representative of a pseudo-nation with different demographic characteristics than the actual country. The pseudo-nation represented by the Senate is more white (non-Hispanic), less black and less Hispanic than the nation at large. This is likely not surprising. I haven't dug that far into the rest, but it would be interesting to see what other trends there are in the actual population versus the population implied by the Senate.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,784
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2014, 03:37:47 PM »

Article: "Oh no, us poor socialists can't get elected in Wyoming. Abolish the rules!"
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2014, 03:39:46 PM »

Article: "Oh no, us poor socialists can't get elected in Wyoming. Abolish the rules!"

Good contribution.
Logged
DrScholl
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,926
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2014, 03:51:32 PM »

Article: "Oh no, us poor socialists can't get elected in Wyoming. Abolish the rules!"
That's more that logic of Republicans who can't win in blue states and want to change how electoral voters are allocated. The Senate isn't needed anymore, period.
Logged
Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,604


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2014, 03:53:08 PM »

Why is it that every time the left loses a big one, the proposals about how the nature of American Democracy need to change come out of the woodwork?
Logged
Bandit3 the Worker
Populist3
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,951


Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -9.92

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2014, 03:54:57 PM »

Why is it that every time the left loses a big one, the proposals about how the nature of American Democracy need to change come out of the woodwork?

Then why do you think we have a process for amending the Constitution?
Logged
justfollowingtheelections
unempprof
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,766


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2014, 03:57:24 PM »

I like the Senate. I don't think American democracy should be a fully and wholly Greek style democracy. The Senate is a good check on the popular will and channels it constructively.

I would favor repeal of the 17th Amendment, anyway.

Of course you do.  It's a republican gerrymander where Wyoming's voice (no offense to Wyoming) has the same weight as California's voice.

What we need is one legislative body (call it a House if you like) where the representatives are elected via a proportional representation system (no more gerrymandering).  In order to not deprive small states of a voice, it would be ideal if each state had the same number of representatives as electoral college votes.  So Wyoming would have 1+2=3 reps, California would have 53+2=55 reps etc.

Enough of this senate nonsense.  The only idea it existed in the first place was to give the aristocracy power.  In 2014, the whole idea of having a senate is absurd.
Logged
DrScholl
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,926
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2014, 03:59:01 PM »

Why is it that every time the left loses a big one, the proposals about how the nature of American Democracy need to change come out of the woodwork?

Are you unaware of the proposals by Republican legislatures to hand electoral votes to the Republican nominee based on gerrymandered districts?

Most countries get by with one chamber just fine, so there is no reason for this country to have two.
Logged
Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,604


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2014, 03:59:11 PM »

Why is it that every time the left loses a big one, the proposals about how the nature of American Democracy need to change come out of the woodwork?

Then why do you think we have a process for amending the Constitution?

Yes, constitutional amendments are known for coming from defeated parties looking to minimize their losses, rather than sweeping national consensus.
Logged
Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,604


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2014, 04:00:46 PM »

Why is it that every time the left loses a big one, the proposals about how the nature of American Democracy need to change come out of the woodwork?

Are you unaware of the proposals by Republican legislatures to hand electoral votes to the Republican nominee based on gerrymandered districts?

Most countries get by with one chamber just fine, so there is no reason for this country to have two.

No different from the Democrats coming up with the national popular vote compact after 2000. There's quite a bit of daylight between that and abolishing 1/2 of a branch of government.

Not that going to the House alone would help the Dems much.
Logged
justfollowingtheelections
unempprof
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,766


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2014, 04:02:25 PM »

Why is it that every time the left loses a big one, the proposals about how the nature of American Democracy need to change come out of the woodwork?

Bulls**t.  I know many left-wing voters who want to abolish the electoral college even though it favors Democrats.
Logged
DrScholl
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,926
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2014, 04:03:40 PM »

Why is it that every time the left loses a big one, the proposals about how the nature of American Democracy need to change come out of the woodwork?

Are you unaware of the proposals by Republican legislatures to hand electoral votes to the Republican nominee based on gerrymandered districts?

Most countries get by with one chamber just fine, so there is no reason for this country to have two.

No different from the Democrats coming up with the national popular vote compact after 2000. There's quite a bit of daylight between that and abolishing 1/2 of a branch of government.

Not that going to the House alone would help the Dems much.

The popular vote compact isn't an attempt at gaming the system, but trying use heavily gerrymandered districts to guarantee your party the presidency is.

One house drawn fairly by a federal, independent commission would do just fine.
Logged
justfollowingtheelections
unempprof
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,766


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2014, 04:07:07 PM »

Why is it that every time the left loses a big one, the proposals about how the nature of American Democracy need to change come out of the woodwork?

Are you unaware of the proposals by Republican legislatures to hand electoral votes to the Republican nominee based on gerrymandered districts?

Most countries get by with one chamber just fine, so there is no reason for this country to have two.

No different from the Democrats coming up with the national popular vote compact after 2000. There's quite a bit of daylight between that and abolishing 1/2 of a branch of government.

Not that going to the House alone would help the Dems much.

The popular vote compact isn't an attempt at gaming the system, but trying use heavily gerrymandered districts to guarantee your party the presidency is.

One house drawn fairly by a federal, independent commission would do just fine.

Or better yet, get rid of districts and use proportional representation.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.049 seconds with 13 queries.