Opinion of "New Atheism"
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  Opinion of "New Atheism"
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Freedom Atheism (Theist)
 
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Horrible Atheism (Theist)
 
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Author Topic: Opinion of "New Atheism"  (Read 1350 times)
TNF
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« on: December 02, 2014, 02:39:25 PM »

Undeniably awful. (Atheist)
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afleitch
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 02:40:10 PM »

As a term means nothing.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 02:43:20 PM »

Any sort of organized atheism is terrible.
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Hifly
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 03:13:21 PM »

Any sort of organized atheism is terrible.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 03:14:03 PM »

embarrassingly enough, I went through a radical atheist phase because of this movement. The most cringeworthy moment that I recall was when I was like ... twelve or something and learnt the name of the capital of Pakistan. And immediately proceeded to make the following joke "Its a good name because it's true. Islam is a bad thing!!!" That went down like a lead balloon, especially as there were a few Islamic people in my immediate circle who were needless to say fairly offended. That was one of those awkward moments that just went on and on

...

 so yeah, thanks Dawkins Tongue
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Nathan
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 03:16:37 PM »

I actually don't think it's really my place as a non-atheist to comment extensively on this movement/phenomenon/whatever, although my general opinion of it is probably obvious.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 04:01:41 PM »

Personally, I have no interest in joining an atheist club or an atheist political party.  And, I do see a certain image on the internet of atheists as rude, smelly nerds, which I dislike.  However, I think that's unfair to identify as representative of "atheism." 

But, I actually like the famous "New Atheists" Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris.  They're always very interesting when they're on TV and I think they make good points.  They just advocate the atheist and scientific position on religion, which I think is healthy.  What exactly is the problem with criticizing religious belief? 
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Lurker
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 04:32:57 PM »

It is a stupid term.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 04:43:34 PM »
« Edited: December 02, 2014, 04:58:33 PM by DemPGH »



But, I actually like the famous "New Atheists" Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris.  They're always very interesting when they're on TV and I think they make good points.  They just advocate the atheist and scientific position on religion, which I think is healthy.  What exactly is the problem with criticizing religious belief?  


Well, there's a bias here decidedly in favor of Catholicism. But yeah, that's my position as well. Dawkins can be a bit bellicose, but that doesn't mean the whole movement is garbage. It means he's probably venting some frustration, and the reason why people like him is that they can identify with it.  

And I think the term is unfair - it's intended to make atheists "others" who are on some aggressive bent, and that's simply not so.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 04:53:49 PM »

It's a silly term, but as Nix suggested, it is all to easy and a more than a little unfair to vote HP considering it served the valuable function of forcing critical thinking and introspection about religion into the mainstream conversation.

Like so many things, hating on it strikes me as a convenient way to posture about your superiority to "those" people, without disagreeing substantively with almost anything about it when it comes to the merits.

I owe my self-critical and skeptical nature, even the very practical and empirical fashion with which I argue in general, to the movement, such as it is, and what it inspired on YouTube and elsewhere from 2006 and onward.

Of course, it was when some aspects of atheism (Atheism+ types, etc) decided they missed having a dogma to live by that I decided it was rather silly to place such a high importance on the term for myself, but that's certainly not the fault of "new atheism."
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 04:59:07 PM »

But, I actually like the famous "New Atheists" Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris.  They're always very interesting when they're on TV and I think they make good points.  They just advocate the atheist and scientific position on religion, which I think is healthy.  What exactly is the problem with criticizing religious belief? 

Their take on history/social science is suspect at best, and many of them are quite bigoted.

I think people can figure out what I think.
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Bigby
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2014, 05:14:42 PM »

Not an atheist, but I believe these people give atheism a bad name.
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freefair
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2014, 05:20:16 PM »

The biggest backlash has been from apologists of political Islam. Freedom Atheism, even though I  myself do sometimes think it goes too far.
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2014, 05:32:20 PM »


inspired by today's article in Jacobin?
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Mopsus
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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2014, 05:38:46 PM »

In my experience, the fatal flaw of the "New Atheists" isn't that they criticize religion, but that they criticize something that they don't fully understand.
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afleitch
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« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2014, 05:45:47 PM »

In my experience, the fatal flaw of the "New Atheists" isn't that they criticize religion, but that they criticize something that they don't fully understand.

To be fair, 'New Atheists' make their money because uppity Christian churches/colleges constantly invite them to debate brain dead Christian fundies because no one else will. Watching William Lane Craig and Dinesh D'Souza get their ass handed to them on a plate each and every time is easy money. If 'New Atheists' don't understand religion, neither do these people.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2014, 05:51:24 PM »
« Edited: December 02, 2014, 05:55:07 PM by Mopsus »

In my experience, the fatal flaw of the "New Atheists" isn't that they criticize religion, but that they criticize something that they don't fully understand.

To be fair, 'New Atheists' make their money because uppity Christian churches/colleges constantly invite them to debate brain dead Christian fundies because no one else will. Watching William Lane Craig and Dinesh D'Souza get their ass handed to them on a plate each and every time is easy money. If 'New Atheists' don't understand religion, neither do these people.

You certainly won't hear me object to that assertion.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2014, 05:55:42 PM »

In my experience, the fatal flaw of the "New Atheists" isn't that they criticize religion, but that they criticize something that they don't fully understand.

I would make the same critique of secular defenders of religion, especially Islam, they defend something they don't understand.  But, in our overly-sensitive society, moderate heroes on the religion issue have the moral high ground.  It seems eccumenical and even-handed to say, "don't criticize anything because everyone and everything is basically the same so it's mean to single out anyone or anything."  On the left, people just deploy that smokescreen while they make these broad unlettered arguments about "imperialism," "capitalism," "zionism" and "white people." 

And, to be fair, you don't need to know the doctrines of any particular religion to be atheist or defend atheism.  There is an open empirical question, "Are there Gods and/or a supernatural dimension?"  Religion has no monopoly on answering that question.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2014, 06:23:18 PM »

There's certainly nothing wrong with criticizing a practice or belief that happens to be held by members of a particular religion. Where "New Atheists" go wrong is that they often assume that that practice or belief is essential to the religion in question and then attempt no deeper understanding of the issue.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2014, 06:40:26 PM »

They believe the all religion should be abolished, and that all religious people are stupid, evil, or both. Obviously horrible.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2014, 08:02:15 PM »

In my experience, the fatal flaw of the "New Atheists" isn't that they criticize religion, but that they criticize something that they don't fully understand.

To be fair, 'New Atheists' make their money because uppity Christian churches/colleges constantly invite them to debate brain dead Christian fundies because no one else will. Watching William Lane Craig and Dinesh D'Souza get their ass handed to them on a plate each and every time is easy money. If 'New Atheists' don't understand religion, neither do these people.


Craig and D'Souza aren't really comparable anymore than Dawkins and the Amazing Atheist are.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2014, 08:30:09 PM »

An ignorant belief but not HP-worthy considering how little harm it does.
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RR1997
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2014, 10:06:02 PM »

^
(Thiest)
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2014, 10:45:40 PM »

I'm an atheist, but it's never been one of the causes I particularly care deeply about, and the idea of an organised atheist movement has no appeal to me whatsoever. I'm also pretty put off by the "science is always right" attitude and privileging of reason that seems to be exemplified by Dawkins et al. Add to that all the misogyny and intolerance of religion (particularly borderline racist dislike of Islam) and you've got a pretty Horrible Movement.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2014, 11:23:54 PM »

New Atheism is terrible.
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