Rand Paul blames Garner's death on cigarette taxes

[Lief 🗽]

F**k off Randy.

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http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/politics/rand-paul-eric-garner-taxes/index.html

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Is he wrong?  what is the rationale for arresting people for the sale of loose cigarettes?

[DrScholl]

Taxes are not to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world. Rand Paul is incredibly stupid.

[AggregateDemand]

Taxes are not to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world. Rand Paul is incredibly stupid.

Democrats are so adorable. The drug war has failed but the creation of black markets for cigarettes is a great idea.

America is in awe of such intelligence.

[CountryClassSF]

Taxes are not to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world. Rand Paul is incredibly stupid.

Democrats are so adorable. The drug war has failed but the creation of black markets for cigarettes is a great idea.

America is in awe of such intelligence.

(Edited to remove reference to a deleted post - TF)

Excellent point. The left has been on the warpath vs cigs but thinks pot is the bees knees

[DrScholl]

Taxes are not to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world. Rand Paul is incredibly stupid.

Democrats are so adorable. The drug war has failed but the creation of black markets for cigarettes is a great idea.

America is in awe of such intelligence.

Blaming Democrats for this crime is a big reach.

[CountryClassSF]

Taxes are not to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world. Rand Paul is incredibly stupid.

Democrats are so adorable. The drug war has failed but the creation of black markets for cigarettes is a great idea.

America is in awe of such intelligence.

Blaming Democrats for this crime is a big reach.

Considering Republicans were blamed for everything from Newtown to Aurora, it's not so far off the mark.  If Democrats weren't insistent on SELECTIVE sin taxes, Garner would have never had  an encounter with law enforcement for this issue.

[Ebowed]

Using cigarettes as an example comes across as especially out-of-touch, but drug laws do lead to countless unnecessary deaths both from incarceration and direct involvement on behalf of law enforcement.

Ignoring the endemic police brutality throughout the country to make that point seems a bit rich coming from an ophthalmologist, who knows well that smoking can cause blindness.

On a related note, a continued increase in the tax seems to occur regularly here in Australia, where it's standard to pay $25 for a pack of 25 cigarettes.

[Sopranos Republican]

I have to agree that cigarette taxes are ludicrous, accomplish next to nothing, and also literally only hurt the people who are most likely to buy cigarettes. (i.e. the poor) I obviously believe there should be a tax to cover programs to assist people in quitting, but I read in New York that cigarettes cost $14.50 per pack. I myself am a light smoker and buy a pack a week here in Massachusetts, which cost roughly $10.50 or so after taxes. While I ultimately believe that police brutality is a far bigger issue than excessive tobacco taxes, I can't say that taxing cigarettes so outrageously high as to give them a market underground is really helping anyone either.

[Likely Voter]

while Paul may have a bit of a point, it is these kind of tone-deaf comments that are going to really bite him on the ass when he runs for president

[ElectionsGuy]

And he's not wrong.

[pbrower2a]

And he's not wrong.

New York State has the highest taxes on cancerweed in America; the purpose is to cut smoking and cut the costs of healthcare related to smoking.

Low rates of adult smoking correlate to positives in just about every social metric. In a study that I started on how the states measure against each other I found that high rates of smoking correlate negatively to statewide credit scores -- not to mention life expectancy. If you live in a state with a high rate of smoking, then a big chunk of state and local government spending goes to treating ailments related to smoking.

If you are going to pay high taxes, then at least let them be spent on roads, public transit, schools, libraries, etc.  Utah, which has by far the lowest rate of adult smoking, seems to get very good results from such government spending as it has. 

[Mehmentum]

Rand's not completely wrong.  While I understand the rational for heavily taxing cigarettes, it provides additional revenue and ends up improving health overall by discouraging smoking, the police shouldn't make arresting people for illegally selling them a priority.

[Beet]

And he's not wrong.

New York State has the highest taxes on cancerweed in America; the purpose is to cut smoking and cut the costs of healthcare related to smoking.

Low rates of adult smoking correlate to positives in just about every social metric. In a study that I started on how the states measure against each other I found that high rates of smoking correlate negatively to statewide credit scores -- not to mention life expectancy. If you live in a state with a high rate of smoking, then a big chunk of state and local government spending goes to treating ailments related to smoking.

If you are going to pay high taxes, then at least let them be spent on roads, public transit, schools, libraries, etc.  Utah, which has by far the lowest rate of adult smoking, seems to get very good results from such government spending as it has.  

There's a good argument that smoking imposes negative externalities, but the same can be said of eating unhealthy foods, drinking, owning firearms, living in hurricane prone areas etc. With smoking the link is just larger in degree. So you can only take that argument so far.

Almost all negative SES factors are co correlated, so that means little.

[anvi]

I think it's the chain of Paul's causal reasoning here that seems silly.  Even if he is presumed right on the cigarette tax issue, it looks from his remarks like he is arguing this: "Cigarette taxes compel people to buy and sell cigarettes illegally.  When police officers are put in the position of trying to enforce the law on people illegally selling cigarets, they will get involved in dangerous situations. And that's why Garner is dead."  You can't explain any event by citing too few relevant facts in the causal chain.  it's like explaining Kennedy's assassination by blaming the folks who designed Dealey Plaza.

[krazen1211]

This is why the GOP should repeal the state/local itemized deductions on taxes. If some states want a government infested by fat cat profiteering teachers unions, they gotta pay!

(Modified to remove quote of deleted post - TF)

[Grumpier Than Thou]

I guess cigarillos costing money and jaywalking laws killed Michael Brown then. Not the cop. Case closed, Rand Paul has spoken.

[Maxwell]

Rand Paul isn't totally wrong, just off base. And after seeing the video of Garner dying with sound, it's still a bit upsetting to hear Randy say what he said.

[I Will Not Be Wrong]

And he's not wrong.

[King]

Cigarette taxes and the drug war are complete opposite. I'm pretty most people in favor of ending the drug war talk about the tax revenue legalized drugs would bring to the government...

[bedstuy]

Right, if we made crime legal we wouldn't have to worry about arresting people in a civilized manner.  Thanks Rand.   

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Right, if we made crime legal we wouldn't have to worry about arresting people in a civilized manner.  Thanks Rand.   

While hardly the incident that should be used to argue the point, one does need to consider whether the costs of enforcement—and not merely the monetary costs—are worth making anything be taxed or more generally be made a crime.

[bedstuy]

Right, if we made crime legal we wouldn't have to worry about arresting people in a civilized manner.  Thanks Rand.   

While hardly the incident that should be used to argue the point, one does need to consider whether the costs of enforcement—and not merely the monetary costs—are worth making anything be taxed or more generally be made a crime.

Sure, but as you said, this is not the incident to be used to make that point. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Cigarette taxes and the drug war are complete opposite. I'm pretty most people in favor of ending the drug war talk about the tax revenue legalized drugs would bring to the government...

It's a talking point in favor of drug legalization, but the idea that you are going to stop the drug war at the same time as making a killing off drug taxes doesn't make much sense. If there are high taxes on drugs, then the drug war will to some extent continue.  The Whiskey Rebellion didn't happen because whiskey was made illegal.

[The Mikado]

Taxes are not to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world. Rand Paul is incredibly stupid.

Democrats are so adorable. The drug war has failed but the creation of black markets for cigarettes is a great idea.

America is in awe of such intelligence.

(Edited to remove reference to a deleted post - TF)

Excellent point. The left has been on the warpath vs cigs but thinks pot is the bees knees

Ah, yes, the cigarette tax pioneered by noted Democrat Michael Bloomberg.