Free Exchange Act (Failed)
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Author Topic: Free Exchange Act (Failed)  (Read 1951 times)
bore
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« on: December 06, 2014, 08:35:26 AM »
« edited: December 17, 2014, 07:54:07 PM by Senator bore »

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Sponsor: Deus
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windjammer
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 08:45:36 AM »

I don't understand this bill?Huh
Deus, could you explain?
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TNF
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 02:24:48 PM »

I'd rather not cede (more) control of our currency to bankers, thanks.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 03:38:34 PM »

If the current Atlasian Constituition is anything like the US in terms of legislative powers, the coining and issuance of currency is a responsibility of the legislative branch of government. Not some private bank.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2014, 07:24:55 PM »

All I can say to this Bill is "wha?"

Good to know the Senate's time is being put to good use.

Motion to table.
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2014, 10:27:18 PM »

All I can say to this Bill is "wha?"

Good to know the Senate's time is being put to good use.

Motion to table.
Your hostility is starting to bug me. Why are you always so arrogant and generally unpleasant?
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2014, 10:32:52 PM »

If the current Atlasian Constituition is anything like the US in terms of legislative powers, the coining and issuance of currency is a responsibility of the legislative branch of government. Not some private bank.
First of all, just because the government has the Constitutional authority to do something doesn't mean it is required to. The US government, for example, did not issue its own notes until the Civil War. The men who wrote the US Constitution were perfectly happy to leave the provision of money to private issuers.

In any case, this bill wouldn't stop the Federal government from issuing currency. It would simply allow private citizens and businesses to choose alternatives if they so desired.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 11:49:48 PM »

All I can say to this Bill is "wha?"

Good to know the Senate's time is being put to good use.

Motion to table.
Your hostility is starting to bug me. Why are you always so arrogant and generally unpleasant?

My apologies.

I will withdraw my motion and ask the Senator what benefit this Bill would have and why this Senate should support this measure.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2014, 11:55:51 PM »

I find this law to be unnecessary- it's already perfectly legal to use alternative currencies for the purchase of goods and services, and vendors can legally refuse payment in USD before the final point of sale (i.e. before a debt is owed). Even when multiple currencies exist it's necessary to have a legal tender for private debt in order to prevent ambiguity (i.e., when you're done eating at a restaurant and you owe them a debt - in the form of a check - legal tender laws prevent the owner from forcing you to pay in bitcoins)
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Cranberry
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 06:46:15 AM »

Maybe that's the (pinko) European in me speaking, but I do feel that it is certainly preferable to have a central authority controlling our currency, and in that way our monetary policy. Such an important point as money is for me better left to the government...
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MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 03:23:25 PM »

If the current Atlasian Constituition is anything like the US in terms of legislative powers, the coining and issuance of currency is a responsibility of the legislative branch of government. Not some private bank.
First of all, just because the government has the Constitutional authority to do something doesn't mean it is required to. The US government, for example, did not issue its own notes until the Civil War. The men who wrote the US Constitution were perfectly happy to leave the provision of money to private issuers.

In any case, this bill wouldn't stop the Federal government from issuing currency. It would simply allow private citizens and businesses to choose alternatives if they so desired.

Ok. I see no problem with that.
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bore
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 03:26:17 PM »

I look forward to the brave new world of paddy's any random businesses dollars.
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 06:43:33 PM »

All I can say to this Bill is "wha?"

Good to know the Senate's time is being put to good use.

Motion to table.
Your hostility is starting to bug me. Why are you always so arrogant and generally unpleasant?

My apologies.

I will withdraw my motion and ask the Senator what benefit this Bill would have and why this Senate should support this measure.
It's ok, I had a stressful day yesterday so I was exaggerating.

I'll post an advocacy later tonight.
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2014, 04:16:10 AM »

This bill is fairly simple. It would allow individuals and institutions to negotiate contracts requiring payment in currencies/commodities other than Federal Reserve Notes. It wouldn't alter Atlasian monetary policy or prevent those who wish to use from FRN's from ceasing to do so, it would simply allow consenting parties to use alternatives if they so desire. There are many reasons why people may wish to use alternative currencies or other forms of payments (I can go into detail if anyone would like), and I see little reason why they should be prohibited from doing so.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2014, 04:19:04 AM »

This bill is fairly simple. It would allow individuals and institutions to negotiate contracts requiring payment in currencies/commodities other than Federal Reserve Notes. It wouldn't alter Atlasian monetary policy or prevent those who wish to use from FRN's from ceasing to do so, it would simply allow consenting parties to use alternatives if they so desire. There are many reasons why people may wish to use alternative currencies or other forms of payments (I can go into detail if anyone would like), and I see little reason why they should be prohibited from doing so.

I would like some detail as to why someone wouldn't use legal tender?
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2014, 04:20:15 AM »

Even when multiple currencies exist it's necessary to have a legal tender for private debt in order to prevent ambiguity (i.e., when you're done eating at a restaurant and you owe them a debt - in the form of a check - legal tender laws prevent the owner from forcing you to pay in bitcoins)
I doubt that would ever happen, since a) most menus mark their prices with $ signs (and those that don't would surely do so if other currencies came into common use), and b) the restaurant would gain nothing from deceiving people in such a manner, since if they actually went through the trouble to trick all of their customers and sue them if they refused to pay (which would never happen anyway) no court would find them to be in the right.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2014, 04:24:11 AM »

Maybe that's the (pinko) European in me speaking, but I do feel that it is certainly preferable to have a central authority controlling our currency, and in that way our monetary policy. Such an important point as money is for me better left to the government...
This bill wouldn't abolish the Federal Reserve or prevent it from issuing currency.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2014, 04:27:47 AM »

Maybe that's the (pinko) European in me speaking, but I do feel that it is certainly preferable to have a central authority controlling our currency, and in that way our monetary policy. Such an important point as money is for me better left to the government...
This bill wouldn't abolish the Federal Reserve or prevent it from issuing currency.

Would this enable private individuals to print their own currency... assuming that others would be prepared to accept it?
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2014, 04:34:18 AM »
« Edited: December 08, 2014, 04:37:33 AM by Deus Naturae »

This bill is fairly simple. It would allow individuals and institutions to negotiate contracts requiring payment in currencies/commodities other than Federal Reserve Notes. It wouldn't alter Atlasian monetary policy or prevent those who wish to use from FRN's from ceasing to do so, it would simply allow consenting parties to use alternatives if they so desire. There are many reasons why people may wish to use alternative currencies or other forms of payments (I can go into detail if anyone would like), and I see little reason why they should be prohibited from doing so.

I would like some detail as to why someone wouldn't use legal tender?
For better or worse, the Atlasian monetary system is inherently inflationary (a dollar 10 years ago was worth more that it is today, and a dollar today is worth more than it will be in 10 years, etc) so for contracts that span a number of years, the interested parties may wish to use a form of payment that is more likely to retain its value over the time period of the contract. Others may wish to negotiate forms of payment more convenient for them (ex: a farmer who takes out a loan may wish to repay it in a certain crop rather than dollars, since he was more control over how of a given crop he will grow than he does over what price his crops will fetch on the market in the future). Others may simply dislike government-issued currency for ideological reasons.

Whatever the case, I'm sure that most people will continue to use FRN's if this bill passes. I simply see no reason those who might not wish to from doing so.
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2014, 04:34:52 AM »

Maybe that's the (pinko) European in me speaking, but I do feel that it is certainly preferable to have a central authority controlling our currency, and in that way our monetary policy. Such an important point as money is for me better left to the government...
This bill wouldn't abolish the Federal Reserve or prevent it from issuing currency.

Would this enable private individuals to print their own currency... assuming that others would be prepared to accept it?
That's already legal.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2014, 04:41:58 AM »
« Edited: December 08, 2014, 04:56:35 AM by Senator Polnut »

Maybe that's the (pinko) European in me speaking, but I do feel that it is certainly preferable to have a central authority controlling our currency, and in that way our monetary policy. Such an important point as money is for me better left to the government...
This bill wouldn't abolish the Federal Reserve or prevent it from issuing currency.

Would this enable private individuals to print their own currency... assuming that others would be prepared to accept it?
That's already legal.

That is true.

I'm pretty sure bartering is not illegal. I'm just not sure what problem is being solved by this Bill, when a lot of it is accepted and not illegal.
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TNF
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« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 09:27:06 AM »

So will this bill also allow companies to pay their employees in monopoly money?
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Cranberry
TheCranberry
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« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 12:54:54 PM »

Maybe that's the (pinko) European in me speaking, but I do feel that it is certainly preferable to have a central authority controlling our currency, and in that way our monetary policy. Such an important point as money is for me better left to the government...
This bill wouldn't abolish the Federal Reserve or prevent it from issuing currency.

Oh I do know that, but wouldn't it (correct me if I'm wrong) take away the "monopoly" for the Fed to control this issuing of currency. And I believe that the state should have the monopoly on that, otherwise people could just go out and print as much money as they want - the economy just wouldn't survive that. As said, probably this is my European point of view, but there needs to be someone who controls all this, at least in my opinion.
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2014, 12:07:54 AM »

So will this bill also allow companies to pay their employees in monopoly money?
Yes, if that was specified in the employment contract. What worker would agree to that though?
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2014, 12:09:46 AM »

Maybe that's the (pinko) European in me speaking, but I do feel that it is certainly preferable to have a central authority controlling our currency, and in that way our monetary policy. Such an important point as money is for me better left to the government...
This bill wouldn't abolish the Federal Reserve or prevent it from issuing currency.

Oh I do know that, but wouldn't it (correct me if I'm wrong) take away the "monopoly" for the Fed to control this issuing of currency. And I believe that the state should have the monopoly on that, otherwise people could just go out and print as much money as they want - the economy just wouldn't survive that. As said, probably this is my European point of view, but there needs to be someone who controls all this, at least in my opinion.
If someone just started their won currency that they massively inflated, I doubt anybody would use it.
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