CSU: Immigrants should speak German at home, CDU says LOLwhat ?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Well, I'm not entirely sure as to how you can 'oblige' immigrants to speak the national language at home, but it should certainly be encouraged for them to do so. After all, speaking one language at home and another at work is a bit of a barrier to full assimilation on the part of immigrants.

There is no need to encourage immigrants to speak the national language at home. It's the norm for second and third generation immigrants to stop speaking their mother tongue (50-80%) without any encouragement or coercion from the state. Is this "full assimilation"? No, the descendants of immigrants will still retain many foreign customs and allegiances. A tiny portion of the second and third generation will still prefer to speak the mother tongue, especially with their parents and grandparents.

[Velasco]

After all, speaking one language at home and another at work is a bit of a barrier to full assimilation on the part of immigrants.

Have you ever heard about cognitive advantages of bilingualism?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3583091/

[Beezer]

The problem in Germany is that quite a few second or third generation immigrants are fluent in neither language.

[Sol]

After all, speaking one language at home and another at work is a bit of a barrier to full assimilation on the part of immigrants.

There's a friend of mine whose family is from India. They are all fluent English speakers. His parents are evangelical Christians; they went to the closest thing my town has to a megachurch. They like NASCAR and 1960s American rock music. My friend barely knows any Hindi. And yet, when I visit their house, about 1/2 of all the conversations that take place are in Hindi--and probably most of that was speaking in English for my benefit.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I think we have to accept it as a reality that if we want open, non-protectionist, free societies there will be a significant proportion of the population who do not speak the native language. And I think the economic costs of being a closed society outweigh the costs of accommodating EFL people.

Also completely anecdotally, I'd say none of the people I knew growing up who grew up in bilingual homes (mostly Turks, Greeks, Indians and a few Chinese) seem to have found the experience a barrier for "assimilation".

[Hash]

Nice to see that 'WillipsBrighton' is not only a disgusting rape apologist, he's also a dumb xenophobe!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The difference is that the Jews were generally alright financially.

Some small long-established communities were (at least on average), but they were the exception. Even if we ignore the situation in the east (where things were always pretty horrifying in material terms), Jewish communities in the more developed parts of Europe before the War tended to be concentrated in well defined inner city districts (Leopoldstadt or - parts of - the East End of London) and mostly worked in a handful of industries (IIRC for quite a time a majority of British Jews in employment worked in the clothing industry) and generally for Jewish employers, this not entirely by choice. My grandfather (who was not Jewish but Welsh-speaking Welsh) had a light sampling of some of these problems when he lived in the East End in the 1930s simply because his surname looked like it might be Jewish. That's just how things were...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There is no need to encourage immigrants to speak the national language at home. It's the norm for second and third generation immigrants to stop speaking their mother tongue (50-80%) without any encouragement or coercion from the state. Is this "full assimilation"? No, the descendants of immigrants will still retain many foreign customs and allegiances. A tiny portion of the second and third generation will still prefer to speak the mother tongue, especially with their parents and grandparents.

This is correct. When the parents are fluent in the dominant language they don't always even teach their kids more than a few words and phrases of their own mother tongue.

[politicus]

There is no need to encourage immigrants to speak the national language at home. It's the norm for second and third generation immigrants to stop speaking their mother tongue (50-80%) without any encouragement or coercion from the state. Is this "full assimilation"? No, the descendants of immigrants will still retain many foreign customs and allegiances. A tiny portion of the second and third generation will still prefer to speak the mother tongue, especially with their parents and grandparents.

This is correct. When the parents are fluent in the dominant language they don't always even teach their kids more than a few words and phrases of their own mother tongue.

Sure, but the speed of this transformation depends on the size and status of the language of the host country. If it is a world language like English, what you describe will be the case. Language change happens slower and more reluctantly if the  switch is to a minor language which isn't useful (or of limited use) outside the host country.

The payoff from learning German is of course large, so its just a qualifier.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yeah, but who moves to Ruritania to find work?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The difference is that the Jews were generally alright financially.

Haven't we learn absolutely nothing?

[politicus]

[Middle-aged Europe]

The difference is that the Jews were generally alright financially.

Haven't we learn absolutely nothing?

"All Jews share a specific gene". - Thilo Sarrazin, 2010

[ag]

The difference is that the Jews were generally alright financially.

Haven't we learn absolutely nothing?

We have not.

[Famous Mortimer]

I didn't say "all Jews are rich" I said generally Jews are not impoverished like semi-literate Middle Easterners. I will stand by that statement.

[Hash]

You're an idiot. Please do everybody here a big service and go away forever. 

[Flake]

I didn't say "all Jews are rich" I said generally Jews are not impoverished like semi-literate Middle Easterners. I will stand by that statement.

You're a racist imbecile, and it would be a great disservice to us all if you were allowed to stay on this site.

[free my dawg]

I didn't say "all Jews are rich" I said generally Jews are not impoverished like semi-literate Middle Easterners. I will stand by that statement.

And I also stand by mine.

[Foucaulf]

I like how multiple users have expressed astonishment that there are people who choose to speak one language in one context and speak another in others. Would it be any less silly if a politician said French/German citizens should exclusively speak "the national language" on the internet, in order not to distance themselves from mainstream society?

I also wonder if WillipsBrighton thinks the real solution to our problems involves forcing families in the developed world to have as many children as possible.

[ilikeverin]

After all, speaking one language at home and another at work is a bit of a barrier to full assimilation on the part of immigrants.

Have you ever heard about cognitive advantages of bilingualism?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3583091/

For God's sake, this.  Among the millions of other things here, this.

The head of my PhD program is a native German speaker, as is his wife, and they decided early on when they moved to the US that they would only speak to their kids in German in the home.  They've kept it up, even during the awkward time when the kids suddenly learned that their parents were doing something very, very unusual and were thus embarrassed.  I think he deserves a medal for that.  And, of course, his kids now love him for it.

I honestly can't understand why anyone would think it was a good thing to deny one's children the gift of multilingualism.  Even if the cognitive benefits are overrated (as they probably are), at the very least you're allowing your child access to a language at a level they would not and could not otherwise get and helping keep their mind open to learning other languages (that might be more practical to learn, depending on the situation) later on.  I have a friend whose parents speak about 7 languages between them, but raised their kids in an English-speaking household.  Now that he's old enough to appreciate what he's missing, well, I don't fault him for being angry.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

What the christ, Europeans don't understand anything about immigration.

This seems like a fair enough statement.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I didn't say "all Jews are rich" I said generally Jews are not impoverished like semi-literate Middle Easterners. I will stand by that statement.

The Jewish communities in Europe before the 1940s (which is what ag specifically referred to) were generally pretty impoverished (which the exception of some comparatively small and well-integrated - they thought - communities that are quite well known) though. And, again, not just so out in the East (where the overwhelming majority lived o/c) but even in London.

[ag]

Yeah, brider yidn were not all Rothschilds ) 

[Tender Branson]

How did this thread go from encouraging immigrants to speak German as often as they can (not unusual for a center-right big-tent party that polls 50% and wants to keep that level) to Jews ?

[ingemann]

How did this thread go from encouraging immigrants to speak German as often as they can (not unusual for a center-right big-tent party that polls 50% and wants to keep that level) to Jews ?

You know the right wing scoundrel wrap themselves in the flag, on the left on the other hand bringing up anti-semitism and nazism serve the same purpose for the the left wing scoundrel.