CSU: Immigrants should speak German at home, CDU says LOLwhat ?

[Tender Branson]

All immigrants should speak German at home, say Merkel's allies

Chancellor Angela Merkel's Bavarian allies have caused outrage by suggesting immigrant families that want to remain in the country should be obliged to speak German at home.

The Christian Social Union (CSU), sister party to Merkel's conservatives and a partner in her coalition government in Berlin, made the proposal in a draft policy paper that is due to be approved by CSU leaders on Monday.

In the paper, the party says: "People who want to remain here on a permanent basis should be obliged to speak German in public and within the family."

The proposal comes amid a sharp rise in immigration levels to Germany, driven by arrivals from eastern European Union members such as Poland, Romania and Bulgaria, as well as a surge in asylum seekers fleeing the war in Syria.

(...)

Some members of the CSU are worried the rise in immigrants will lead traditional supporters of the party to flee to the Alternative for Germany (AfD), a new party which preaches a tough line on immigration. The CSU was the driving force behind a new law earlier this year that clamps down on immigrants who abuse Germany's generous social welfare system.

The CSU proposal on speaking German in the home was swiftly denounced by the other parties in Merkel's government, including a senior official from the chancellor's Christian Democratic Union (CDU).

"It is not the business of politicians whether I speak Latin, Klingon or Hessian at home," Peter Tauber, general secretary of the CDU, said on Twitter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11278764/All-immigrants-should-speak-German-at-home-say-Merkels-allies.html

[Tender Branson]

While I support the idea behind it, it's practically non-enforcable.

If I'd emigrate to the US, I'm not speaking German either anymore - only English.

So should immigrants who come to Germany: If they start going to German language courses and start talking German at home and in public, it will be much easier for them to integrate and get a good job.

[Tender Branson]

LOLwhat is right. After all, most CSU people can't speak German.

CSU voters are not immigrants though and they won't have much trouble getting jobs - unlike people who just came here and mostly talk Arab or whatever at home and in public ...

[Tender Branson]

While I support the idea behind it, it's practically non-enforcable.

If I'd emigrate to the US, I'm not speaking German either anymore - only English.

So should immigrants who come to Germany: If they start going to German language courses and start talking German at home and in public, it will be much easier for them to integrate and get a good job.

Even if you brought a German-speaking girlfriend/wife and German-speaking children? Would you suddenly start doing all the intra-family talk in a foreign language where you would not be able to express yourself as precise and immediate as in your mother tongue?

I'm all for strong incentives and demands for immigrants to learn the language of the country they're residing it, but politicians should of course not decide on which language people should speak at home, neither in practice nor as a good idea/principle.

Maybe not in the beginning, but certainly after a while. The children pretty easily will learn the new language in school, so it's easy to talk with them in the new language at home within a year. Of course there's a time to "phase it in", but at some point you should definitely start talking in the language of the local population and leave your own background behind.

Plus, you are also not mentioning that most immigrants (or asylum seekers) are young men, whereas they will only take their family into the country after some time. There has been a debate recently here, as to why so many asylum seekers are young men from Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan between the ages of 18 and 30. "Where are the women and children from the War Areas", the newspapers read. Why are only young men coming ? And then this is getting a problem, when the government decides to open an asylum centre with 50-100 young Arab men in a town of 2000 or 3000 people. Of course people are anxious then and a first good step would be to ask these people to study German hard and also talk in that new language on a daily basis and not Arab etc.

[Tender Branson]

But yeah, this is unenforceable dreck and is certainly not going to attract the bulk of AfD leaners.

It could chip away 1-3% from the AfD though, and that's the main point of this thing. Publicity stunt, without much practical behind it.

[Tender Branson]

In the paper, the party says: "People who want to remain here on a permanent basis should be obliged to speak German in public and within the family."

There seems to be a confusion about the actual wording of this new party platform amendment. Some sources say that "the CSU wants a German-mandate at home", while other sources like the BBC below only say "encouraged":

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The CSU Facebook-page also just says "encourage" (well it actually says nothing like it, it just says: "People, who come to us, should talk in German as often as they can, also outside the school and the workplace"):



If it's in fact just "encourage" and not "mandated", I don't see what the big deal or outcry is here.

[Tender Branson]

While I support the idea behind it, it's practically non-enforcable.

If I'd emigrate to the US, I'm not speaking German either anymore - only English.

So should immigrants who come to Germany: If they start going to German language courses and start talking German at home and in public, it will be much easier for them to integrate and get a good job.

Even if you brought a German-speaking girlfriend/wife and German-speaking children? Would you suddenly start doing all the intra-family talk in a foreign language where you would not be able to express yourself as precise and immediate as in your mother tongue?

I'm all for strong incentives and demands for immigrants to learn the language of the country they're residing it, but politicians should of course not decide on which language people should speak at home, neither in practice nor as a good idea/principle.

Maybe not in the beginning, but certainly after a while. The children pretty easily will learn the new language in school, so it's easy to talk with them in the new language at home within a year. Of course there's a time to "phase it in", but at some point you should definitely start talking in the language of the local population and leave your own background behind.

Reminds me, why I would never talk to an Austrian. In any language.

Don't worry, I also do not talk to Russians because they are clearly all nuts.

Bavarians asking for people to talk German is same as the old tv-series in which Alabaman cop asked an immigrant whether he speaks English.

Tender are you FPÖ voter after all.

No, I was just highlighting the misinterpretation by the media with regards to the CSU proposal. The media spinned it as if the CSU wanted to mandate German-speaking at home, while they actually didn't (see Facebook image). If they encourage foreigners to speak German as often as they can, that's just common sense to me (as a leftist, no matter what the other leftists try to spin here). That's not making me a FPÖ-voter.

[Tender Branson]

Tender,

Cultural insensitivity is not left or right issue, as you know.

Yeah, but i'm not "culturally insensitive". More like a strong supporter of foreigner integration and at best: assimilation. But that's just me. Others of course can still talk their native language even if they are already 50 years in another country. Doesn't bother me really. I just like the idea that immigrants are encouraged to learn and talk the new language as often as they can. It only benefits them. Besides, if you read the beginning of the topic here I have already spoken out against the CSU "mandate" that the media tried to spin (which the party does not want itself either).

[Tender Branson]

Tender, if I and a friend of mine went to live in Austria, would you have problems with us speaking English together at home?

Not really, but I would advise you to learn good German if you want to stay here for a while for work. Unless you work for a multi-national company in Vienna etc. where you can get by by talking English with international customers, it's ok. But if you work in a company where the business language is Austro-German, then it would be better for you and your friend to get a language course soon. It will also help you in the local bakery, etc. or in general.

But that's not the point: Like I said in the beginning, the media (falsely) thought the CSU wanted to mandate German-speaking at home for immigrants (and apparently, you falsely think the same). In fact, they only want to encourage them strongly to learn and talk German as often as possible. A mandate is not what I support, because it's stupid and non-enforceable anyway.

This thread is the living proof of how xenophobia and ignorance permeate every corner.

There is a difference between "xenophobia" and advocating a smooth integration of immigrants into society by encouraging to learn the local language and apply the new culture and customs close to 100%. Otherwise, you will end up with the immigrant "ghettos" like in France or in Sweden full of disillusioned folks who start to riot ...

[Tender Branson]

How did this thread go from encouraging immigrants to speak German as often as they can (not unusual for a center-right big-tent party that polls 50% and wants to keep that level) to Jews ?

[Tender Branson]

How did this thread go from encouraging immigrants to speak German as often as they can (not unusual for a center-right big-tent party that polls 50% and wants to keep that level) to Jews ?

If you do not see how, and why any such thread would inevitably get to Jews, you should read up on Austrian history.

And, BTW, I now know why Czechs used to hate Germans so much.

Inevitably ? Not really, it was just 1 poster. There's no need to discuss Jewish people in a thread like this which is about encouraging integration and not the historic use of force or purging of a religious group. That's quite the difference. And there's no need to establish a knee-jerk connection to the Holocaust all the time, once a German-party brings up an immigration topic for debate. Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong opponent of all Nazi-ism (as you know), but the CSU-debate here is not much different to the debate of other European (or other) center-right parties and they are not attacked with the Nazi-cudgel either. The CSU is a huge party that needs to appeal to a lot of different segments, so it's better to throw the Nazi-cudgel when it involves the parties that are actually the problem and could turn into a real problem: the NPD and the AfD.

[Tender Branson]

You make me sick.

Well, under normal circumstances I wouldn't even bother to debate further with you because you clearly do not understand what I was talking about in this thread and I advise you to read it again. You clearly want to put me into a Nazi-corner, which is not warranted. You seem to be driven by Austria- and Germany hatred too. My position is in fact not much different to integration approaches of many center-left parties, who acknowledge certain problems within some parts of the immigrant community that need to be tackled. While speaking the new language at home as often as you can is not the solution that will solve every problem, it's a good start though. Your laissez-faire approach (and that of many in the center-left) often solves nothing and only intensifies the problems that immigrants face.

[Tender Branson]

Tender, the main thing is, that "jemanden zu etwas anhalten" which was the wording of the original proposal etwas anderes ist als "jemanden zu etwas ermutigen".

Not according to the "Duden":

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Of course a matter of interpretation: Some might interpret it as "do it, or be punished !" and some might interpret it as "encourage". I'm one of the latter ones.