Why are New York's Italians more Republican?

[AndrewMichael]

It seems to me that New York City's Italian-Americans are more Republican than other ethnic Catholics in NYC and Italian-Americans in other parts of the country, which I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) trend Democratic.

According to this article I read on Italian-Americans and the New Deal Coalition (which I can't provide a link to because this is my first post on the website, but which you can access by googling "Italian-Americans New Deal"), Roosevelt lost New York's Italian vote in 1940 and 44 despite winning it in other cities.

Does anybody have an explanation as to why this is?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     In many parts of the Northeast, the Democratic Party machines were controlled by the Irish-Americans. As I understand it, Italian-Americans gravitated to the Republican Party because it gave them a means of gaining political power and representation.

[SNJ1985]

In many parts of the Northeast, the Democratic Party machines were controlled by the Irish-Americans. As I understand it, Italian-Americans gravitated to the Republican Party because it gave them a means of gaining political power and representation.

That seems plausible.

[Kraxner]

Reagan was able to nudge the italian american vote in the 80s due to abortion, and secular italian americans/cultural catholics but barely practicing. With a tough stance on crime and economic conservatism. And thats why boroughs like Staten Island is a swing county.

[Indy Texas]

     In many parts of the Northeast, the Democratic Party machines were controlled by the Irish-Americans. As I understand it, Italian-Americans gravitated to the Republican Party because it gave them a means of gaining political power and representation.

I've heard this too. I also wonder if Fiorello LaGuardia had anything to do with it, or if he was more a symptom of this phenomenon than the cause.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Have you ever talked to one?

There ya go, oh young, over-analyzer. 

[Indy Texas]

Have you ever talked to one?

There ya go, oh young, over-analyzer. 

Being in California, he probably hasn't.

Nor have I - the Eye-talians who made it this far west largely ditched the ethnocentric culture of various Tri-State suburbs.

[justfollowingtheelections]

New York Italian communities are culturally very much like 19th century Sicily.  

Ethnic communities in an attempt to keep their cultural identity often fail to realize that the world changes and the culture they are trying to preserve doesn't exist anymore, not even in the old country.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

New York Italian communities are culturally very much like 19th century Sicily.  

Ethnic communities in an attempt to keep their cultural identity often fail to realize that the world changes and the culture they are trying to preserve doesn't exist anymore, not even in the old country.

My close friend comes from an Italian family in North Jersey about 10 mins outside NYC, and they still make family wine and smack each other around with spoons at dinner while screaming in the language of the old country. 

[Citizen Hats]

New York Italian communities are culturally very much like 19th century Sicily.  

Ethnic communities in an attempt to keep their cultural identity often fail to realize that the world changes and the culture they are trying to preserve doesn't exist anymore, not even in the old country.

So you mean I don't have to eat this Lutefisk?

Hooray!

[AndrewMichael]

Haha. I have indeed been to New York and have talked to Italians there.

I'm of Italian descent and have relatives in the Tri State area who I see once every few years. I know they're Republicans but it isn't something we have ever discussed.

I don't think I'm over-analyzing, just curious.

[Indy Texas]

Haha. I have indeed been to New York and have talked to Italians there.

I'm of Italian descent and have relatives in the Tri State area who I see once every few years. I know they're Republicans but it isn't something we have ever discussed.

I don't think I'm over-analyzing, just curious.

You're missing out on a good opportunity to go right to the source. Ask them about their political views the next time you see them (respectfully, not in a judgmental or critical way).

[Oldiesfreak1854]

     In many parts of the Northeast, the Democratic Party machines were controlled by the Irish-Americans. As I understand it, Italian-Americans gravitated to the Republican Party because it gave them a means of gaining political power and representation.

Maybe that explains D'Amato and others (I'd include Giuliani, except he was originally a Democrat.)

[King of Kensington]

Are older, less assimilated and immigrant Italians the most Republican of NY's Italian Americans?

[King of Kensington]

How did the Cuomos (father and son) do among Italian American voters?

[Citizen Hats]

How did the Cuomos (father and son) do among Italian American voters?

Cuomi?

[King of Kensington]

The New York area's Italians are less "melted" than elsewhere.  For the 4 largest Italian American metros:

Italian American population:

New York MSA 2,676,023
Philadelphia MSA 843,350
Boston MSA 683,007
Chicago MSA 682,579

Italian single ancestry:

New York MSA 1,401,912
Philadelphia MSA 335,264
Boston MSA 263,559
Chicago MSA 234,196

Speak Italian at home:

New York MSA 242,396
Chicago MSA 38,001
Boston MSA 37,068
Philadelphia MSA 32,651

[King of Kensington]

If you're interested in voting behavior in New York City's Italian-American neighborhoods, you might be interested in this ethnography, which draws a particularly instructive contrast between Italian-American and Jewish American political beliefs voting behaviors.

I read that book when I was in college. The Jewish community was much more split politically.  While in other cities, Jews moved en masse to the middle class and suburbs, in NYC there was still a significant number of working class and lower middle class Jews - many of them Orthodox or traditional - that remained in the outer boroughs during the 1960s and 1970s.  They often voted for backlash candidates and despised liberal mayor John Lindsay and according to the book, voted for Reagan in 1980.  There was also a significant left-liberal urban professional demographic in Manhattan of which there was no equivalent among Italian Americans, and Jews in wealthy suburbs like Scarsdale were also voting more liberally.  The Italian Americans of Canarsie (and elsewhere in the outer boroughs) had shifted significantly to the right and voted for Reagan in very large numbers.  Italian Americans in the suburbs I presume voted pretty much the same way.

Interestingly, one could start a thread on why New York's Jews are less liberal than Jews elsewhere in the US.  Given the large Orthodox, traditional and Russian element in the New York area - I'm pretty sure Obama got quite a bit less than the 68% he received nationally.

[Torie]

Good comments above, but perhaps another reason is that Italian-Americans may be more hostile than average to paying taxes, and suspicion of government power. Way back when, I remember a poll about that.

[King of Kensington]

As PiT mentions, New York's machine politics are one part of the answer - although it ought to be noted that many, if not most, of those Italian-Americans were willing to vote for a few Democratic presidential candidates - FDR, JFK, and Al Smith. (What could the second two possibly have in common? Hmm...)

As well as LBJ and HHH. 

[Indy Texas]

Speak Italian at home:

New York MSA 242,396
Chicago MSA 38,001
Boston MSA 37,068
Philadelphia MSA 32,651

I wonder if they're speaking a "frozen in time" variant of late 19th/early 20th century Sicilian that has largely ceased to exist in Sicily. You occasionally read media stories about young Italian-Americans studying Italian in college to connect with their roots only to find that when they try to speak to their old great-aunt, she can't understand them.

[King of Kensington]

I think these Italian speakers would mostly be post-war immigrants from the 1950s and 1960s, though most of them didn't speak "standard" Italian either. 

They disproportionately went to the New York area.  For instance, while the Philadelphia MSA has about 1/3 the Italian American population of New York MSA, it has an Italian speaking population that's only a little more than one tenth the size. 

[Sol]

Speak Italian at home:

New York MSA 242,396
Chicago MSA 38,001
Boston MSA 37,068
Philadelphia MSA 32,651

I wonder if they're speaking a "frozen in time" variant of late 19th/early 20th century Sicilian that has largely ceased to exist in Sicily. You occasionally read media stories about young Italian-Americans studying Italian in college to connect with their roots only to find that when they try to speak to their old great-aunt, she can't understand them.

Well, it's also true that Italy speaks a lot more than just Italian, and a lot of what are called dialects are very divergent from the standard. Plus you have distinct languages like Friulian and Sardu and stuff.

[King of Kensington]

Democrats also do better among professionals than the white working class or small proprietors, and I can't think of a heavily Italian area that's predominantly professional - there's no Italian "Upper West Side" or "Scarsdale" that I can think of.

[King of Kensington]

The OP may find this article interesting, which discusses Italian American culture in California and NY/NJ.  Her basic argument is that in the postwar period, Italian enclaves eroded in CA and new concentrations didn't emerge in the suburbs.  In contrast, sheer numbers of Italian Americans and postwar immigration helped keep Italian culture alive in NY/NJ.

http://www.i-italy.org/bloggers/1761/californian-goes-east

Politically, there's probably no "Italian vote" to speak of in CA but there is in NY/NJ.