Why is Obama so unpopular?

[The Mikado]

Also, I'm not sure I buy the idea that the president is absurdly unpopular. If the electorate had a choice tomorrow between Barack Obama/Joe Biden and John McCain/Sarah Palin, do you think McCain would win? Or Barack Obama/Joe Biden vs Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan? I don't think the electorate would do a takeback on either of the last two elections.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Also, I'm not sure I buy the idea that the president is absurdly unpopular. If the electorate had a choice tomorrow between Barack Obama/Joe Biden and John McCain/Sarah Palin, do you think McCain would win? Or Barack Obama/Joe Biden vs Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan? I don't think the electorate would do a takeback on either of the last two elections.

CNN has polled a hypothetical Obama/Romney rematch several times, and has always found Romney leading.

I disapprove of his tenure for many reasons:

1. Clearly believing, on issue after issue after issue, throughout his term, that partisan democrats have a monopoly on good ideas, despite saying that he doesn't believe such a thing.

2. Preferring defaulting on our debt over negotiating.

3. His refusal to pass stimulus for the middle class, instead catering to the moguls and big banks on wall street, resulting in a recovery that has been extremely sluggish and, six years into his presidency, leaves underemployment in double digits (it was ~8% before the recession), and wages/labor participation much too low.

4. Refusing to work with republicans when he passed his health care reform, despite promising he would, and then passing a law too long for anyone to read, filled with terrible provisions such as the 30 hour work week and the medical device tax.

5. Lying about certain provisions of said health care law over and over and over again, then trying to deny having lied about them, and refusing to get the website properly betatested.

6. Refusal to permantely cut overall military spending or push for fair trials for Guantanamo bay prisoners, despite promising to do so.

7. Taking too long to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which have not accomplished enough to merit being stretched out as long as they are/were.

8. His "policies are on the ballot" 2014 gaffe, which may have sunk Begich and Hagan, both of which I really like.

9. Benghazi (LOL)

Yay republican talking points! Although I'd forgive you if you disapproved of the GOP congress even more, seeing as half those points are the GOP's fault (bolded), and some more on top of that.

My dislike of both the republican house and the democratic senate far outpaces my dislike of Obama. And keep in mind, I was in love with Obama in 2008, and mildly supported him in 2012, so you can hardly accuse me of turning against him from the start like 40% of the country did.

Also, with #2, do keep in mind that the GOP offered some pretty lenient proposals to get the country out of shutdown/default risk back in 2013, including just repealing the medical device tax and just approving keystone, yet it was Obama who took us to the brink of default with his "You get ABSOLUTELY nothing" mantra.

And how is an Obama gaffe the GOP's fault? The GOP doesn't control his voice.

[Boston Bread]

^The "gaffe" seems to me that it's only a gaffe because republicans think it is. Same with Benghazi (tragedy but happened all the time under Bush too).

[bedstuy]

1. Clearly believing, on issue after issue after issue, throughout his term, that partisan democrats have a monopoly on good ideas, despite saying that he doesn't believe such a thing.

Name one significant Republican policy proposal that Obama actually ignored.

2. Preferring defaulting on our debt over negotiating.

Come on.  You can't do this revisionist history crap when for an event that happened 3 years ago.  The problem was always Republican in-fighting and their crazy demands.  Republicans were economic terrorists, Obama was just acting like every other President would have acted. 

3. His refusal to pass stimulus for the middle class, instead catering to the moguls and big banks on wall street, resulting in a recovery that has been extremely sluggish and, six years into his presidency, leaves underemployment in double digits (it was ~8% before the recession), and wages/labor participation much too low.

He did pass stimulus for the middle class, to wit:

$237 billion in tax cuts for individuals
$100 billion in education spending
$155 billion in healthcare
Billions in unemployment benefits, job training, food stamps, infrastructure jobs, energy jobs
Cash for clunkers

He did not pass a stimulus package for banks.  The government bailed out banks because it was the best choice as every expert has agreed.  The financial system needs to work.  And, really, if you give middle class people tax cuts in a recession, it doesn't work because they're likely to save instead of spend.

4. Refusing to work with republicans when he passed his health care reform, despite promising he would, and then passing a law too long for anyone to read, filled with terrible provisions such as the 30 hour work week and the medical device tax.

What Republicans ideas were there to improve the ACA?  They never wanted to improve it, they wanted to delay, delay, delay, so they could kill the bill.  That's all they ever wanted to do.  Get a grip.

5. Lying about certain provisions of said health care law over and over and over again, then trying to deny having lied about them, and refusing to get the website properly betatested.

That's ridiculous.  His point was that Obamacare exchanges sold private insurance, as opposed to something like an HMO system, that was a fact.  Every politician makes statements like that, it's not a lie.

6. Refusal to permantely cut overall military spending or push for fair trials for Guantanamo bay prisoners, despite promising to do so.

You can't permanently cut military spending, they don't have permanent budgets.  Obama has cut defense spending.  That's a fact and he's had to fight Republicans to get the cuts he has.  As for Guantanamo, Republicans helped stop trials from taking place in the US by having a massive fit.  Remember?  Republicans were pathetically afraid of Al Qaeda members escaping super-Max prisoners or whatever and demanded no trials on in the Federal district Courts in NYC.

 

7. Taking too long to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which have not accomplished enough to merit being stretched out as long as they are/were.

If we had Romney or McCain, imagine how much slower that would have happened.

8. His "policies are on the ballot" 2014 gaffe, which may have sunk Begich and Hagan, both of which I really like.

Come on, nobody voted based on that.  I read the newspaper every day, I didn't even know he said that.

9. Benghazi

You have to elaborate here, because you sound like a moron if you dislike Obama because there's a city in Libya called Benghazi. 

[King]

^^^ is that a real post or are you trolling bro? Because half of those points are not true.

Which half is true?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

1. Clearly believing, on issue after issue after issue, throughout his term, that partisan democrats have a monopoly on good ideas, despite saying that he doesn't believe such a thing.

Name one significant Republican policy proposal that Obama actually ignored.

2. Preferring defaulting on our debt over negotiating.

Come on.  You can't do this revisionist history crap when for an event that happened 3 years ago.  The problem was always Republican in-fighting and their crazy demands.  Republicans were economic terrorists, Obama was just acting like every other President would have acted. 

3. His refusal to pass stimulus for the middle class, instead catering to the moguls and big banks on wall street, resulting in a recovery that has been extremely sluggish and, six years into his presidency, leaves underemployment in double digits (it was ~8% before the recession), and wages/labor participation much too low.

He did pass stimulus for the middle class, to wit:

$237 billion in tax cuts for individuals
$100 billion in education spending
$155 billion in healthcare
Billions in unemployment benefits, job training, food stamps, infrastructure jobs, energy jobs
Cash for clunkers

He did not pass a stimulus package for banks.  The government bailed out banks because it was the best choice as every expert has agreed.  The financial system needs to work.  And, really, if you give middle class people tax cuts in a recession, it doesn't work because they're likely to save instead of spend.

4. Refusing to work with republicans when he passed his health care reform, despite promising he would, and then passing a law too long for anyone to read, filled with terrible provisions such as the 30 hour work week and the medical device tax.

What Republicans ideas were there to improve the ACA?  They never wanted to improve it, they wanted to delay, delay, delay, so they could kill the bill.  That's all they ever wanted to do.  Get a grip.

5. Lying about certain provisions of said health care law over and over and over again, then trying to deny having lied about them, and refusing to get the website properly betatested.

That's ridiculous.  His point was that Obamacare exchanges sold private insurance, as opposed to something like an HMO system, that was a fact.  Every politician makes statements like that, it's not a lie.

6. Refusal to permantely cut overall military spending or push for fair trials for Guantanamo bay prisoners, despite promising to do so.

You can't permanently cut military spending, they don't have permanent budgets.  Obama has cut defense spending.  That's a fact and he's had to fight Republicans to get the cuts he has.  As for Guantanamo, Republicans helped stop trials from taking place in the US by having a massive fit.  Remember?  Republicans were pathetically afraid of Al Qaeda members escaping super-Max prisoners or whatever and demanded no trials on in the Federal district Courts in NYC.

 

7. Taking too long to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which have not accomplished enough to merit being stretched out as long as they are/were.

If we had Romney or McCain, imagine how much slower that would have happened.

8. His "policies are on the ballot" 2014 gaffe, which may have sunk Begich and Hagan, both of which I really like.

Come on, nobody voted based on that.  I read the newspaper every day, I didn't even know he said that.

9. Benghazi

You have to elaborate here, because you sound like a moron if you dislike Obama because there's a city in Libya called Benghazi. 

1. Everything the republicans proposed during the fiscal cliff. Everything, even the bipartisan stuff like Keystone, that republicans proposed as an acceptable concession to end the gov. shutdown of 2013. And also http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/house-republicans-draft-their-debt-ceiling-playbook-20130707 . Three examples for you. Satisfied?

2. I'm referring to October 2013 and February 2014, when he quite clearly showed that he would rather see the country default then give even a small concession to republicans.

3. Obama supported, as did Bush, bailing out the banks with little to no restrictions. Perhaps it was the best thing to bail them out, but we should have done with the understanding that banks would permantely eliminate for the rest of time the less restrictive loan requirements that caused the recession, and JAILED these banks chief executives. Furthermore, whatever stimulus Obama did pass for the middle class, it was not enough. He promised a speedy economic recovery, we got one that is so sluggish it's not even funny.

4. When he was passing his health care bill, Obama/Reid simply used strategic voting tactics (senate held a vote during a brief 60 democrat majority period, and did the rest through the vile tactic that is reconciliation), and correct me if I'm wrong here, but to my knowledge, Obama/Reid/etc. did not make truly serious attempts to get even a single republican vote in the house or senate for the bill. All that effort they did to get the vote of Ben Nelson, they should have been working equally as hard to get the vote of republicans such as Olympia Snowe, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, but they did no such thing (to my knowledge).

5. He said on dozens of occasions "You can keep your healthcare plan no matter what, you can keep your doctor no matter what". In fact, politifact called the first part of that the 'lie of the year'. Then, he tried to deny ever lying about it.

6. Obama should have said "OK, we'll keep guantanmo open, just have fair trials and that's it". To my knowledge, he never said that. The cuts defense spending has received have been fairly modest. The bottom line here is that Clinton could work with Gingrich, Bush could work with the tied senate in first two years and the democratic congress in his last two, H.W. Bush could work with a democratic congress, Reagan could work with a democratic house for 8 years and a democratic senate for two, Ford/Nixon could work with a democratic house, etc., so Obama should be able to work with a republican house/congress. In fact, this congress of 2013-2014 is the most dysfunctional congress ever. In second place is the 2011-2012 congress. Obama likes to act like he's the first president that's ever had to work with an unfavorable congress, and that's FAR from the truth.

8. It was played in senate ads across the country.

9. I'm obviously referring to the scandal, not the city.

[Oakvale]

I'm not sure if I want to bother with the rest of the talking points, but on what grounds would "bank executives" be "JAILED"?

(and the US recovery has been far, far better than almost any other country's in the western world so "sluggish" doesn't look so bad in the international context)

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

President Obama isn't unpopular.

[bedstuy]

1. Everything the republicans proposed during the fiscal cliff. Everything, even the bipartisan stuff like Keystone, that republicans proposed as an acceptable concession to end the gov. shutdown of 2013. And also http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/house-republicans-draft-their-debt-ceiling-playbook-20130707 . Three examples for you. Satisfied?

Keystone pipeline is the only concrete thing you can throw out.  One pipeline is not a significant policy proposal, I'm sorry.

2. I'm referring to October 2013 and February 2014, when he quite clearly showed that he would rather see the country default then give even a small concession to republicans.

Your idealized view of Republicans isn't reality though...  Republicans didn't ask for small concessions, they threatened to destroy the economy if their demands weren't met.  That's not how legislators who like America behave.  That's how Ernst Stavro Blofeld behaves.  If they actually worked in good faith, they would have never used the default threat.  Obama didn't create this situation, remember?  Do you remember Democrats doing this under Bush?

3. Obama supported, as did Bush, bailing out the banks with little to no restrictions. Perhaps it was the best thing to bail them out, but we should have done with the understanding that banks would permantely eliminate for the rest of time the less restrictive loan requirements that caused the recession, and JAILED these banks chief executives. Furthermore, whatever stimulus Obama did pass for the middle class, it was not enough. He promised a speedy economic recovery, we got one that is so sluggish it's not even funny.

You're wrong on the facts yet again.  This crisis wasn't caused by housing loans being too generous.  That's rewriting history.  And, remember, Obama had to work extremely hard to get a stimulus package.  Republicans wanted Hoover economics, cutting back during a recession despite the advice of any sane economist.  Obama had to fight tooth and claw to his stimulus.  If Republicans were sane, we could have gotten a bigger stimulus.  And, again, middle class tax cuts are horrible economic stimulus.  During a recession, you need to spend money on things like infrastructure and local government aid that pump money directly into the economy.

4. When he was passing his health care bill, Obama/Reid simply used strategic voting tactics (senate held a vote during a brief 60 democrat majority period, and did the rest through the vile tactic that is reconciliation), and correct me if I'm wrong here, but to my knowledge, Obama/Reid/etc. did not make truly serious attempts to get even a single republican vote in the house or senate for the bill. All that effort they did to get the vote of Ben Nelson, they should have been working equally as hard to get the vote of republicans such as Olympia Snowe, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, but they did no such thing (to my knowledge).

Republicans are bought and sold by the big special interest in the health care industry.  And, let's go back to 2009-10.  Republicans going absolutely nuts and were whipping their base into a frenzy.  Where was the slightest effort to work with Obama to craft a workable bill?  The didn't do anything, they only tried to torpedo the bill.  And, why didn't Republicans vote for the ACA?  Wouldn't have that been bipartisan, the thing you pretend to love?

5. He said on dozens of occasions "You can keep your healthcare plan no matter what, you can keep your doctor no matter what". In fact, politifact called the first part of that the 'lie of the year'. Then, he tried to deny ever lying about it.

He didn't lie.  Let's just use common sense.  Before Obamacare, could your healthcare plan stop paying for a doctor's fees.  Yes.  So, Obama never could be understood to say, you have an ironclad right to your doctor, as if he's your feudal vassal.  Nobody thought Obama meant that and if they did, they're a moron.  What he meant was that Obamacare had no effect on whether your plan's network, which is a fact.

If polifact disagrees, they're just moderate heroes or stupid.

6. Obama should have said "OK, we'll keep guantanmo open, just have fair trials and that's it". To my knowledge, he never said that. The cuts defense spending has received have been fairly modest. The bottom line here is that Clinton could work with Gingrich, Bush could work with the tied senate in first two years and the democratic congress in his last two, H.W. Bush could work with a democratic congress, Reagan could work with a democratic house for 8 years and a democratic senate for two, Ford/Nixon could work with a democratic house, etc., so Obama should be able to work with a republican house/congress. In fact, this congress of 2013-2014 is the most dysfunctional congress ever. In second place is the 2011-2012 congress. Obama likes to act like he's the first president that's ever had to work with an unfavorable congress, and that's FAR from the truth.

No Congress has been as obstructionist as this Republican Congress.  Even in the 1990s, Republicans had moderates.  Today, moderates are less than 1% of the Republican caucus.  So, how about blaming them or at least looking at the facts?  I mean, this isn't ancient history.  Facts are stubborn things.

8. It was played in senate ads across the country.

Thankfully, I missed it.

9. I'm obviously referring to the scandal, not the city.

What scandal is that?

[Boston Bread]

President Obama isn't unpopular.

Bigger problem that he isn't inspiring anymore, Obama coalition turnout rate was less than pre-Obama (2006). It looked like he would be the perfect guy to turn them into a permanent political force but he's been disappointing on that line, in part due to outside factors.

[The Mikado]

The Guantanamo thing is probably the most unfair cop of all of the things Wulfric brought up (outside of Benghazi, where the Administration did nothing wrong whatsoever). Obama did make a serious effort in 2009 to close Guantanamo and Congress has prevented him from doing so. Ever since, Obama has tried his hardest to reduce the number of prisoners in Guantanamo (from over 250 when he took office to ~150 today) and has been blocked at every turn as foreign countries refuse to take them when the Administration has tried to extradite them. This isn't Obama "lying" or anything, this is Obama bound and determined to close Guantanamo but prevented from doing so because it isn't in the President's power.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's a good thing that at least Wulfric doesn't accuse Obama like Ron Fournier of not implementing a moderate health care reform law like the one Romney did in Massachussets.

[ElectionsGuy]

President Obama isn't unpopular.

Yeah, the fact that >50% of people disapprove clearly doesn't matter.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

President Obama isn't unpopular.

Yeah, the fact that >50% of people disapprove clearly doesn't matter.

That's hardly unpopular in the political climate of 2014. Without the barrage of specious YouGov/Reuters web polls, he's sitting at 43-44 Approve/50-52 Disapprove. By no means does that suggest "unpopularity", which is defined by a broad level of disapproval rather than a political divide more reflective of the 2012 presidential election than the Bush presidency.

[Mr. Smith]

The answer is actually much simpler than you think: He's incumbent.

The media can and will tear down any incumbent they can and will always strike the question of "What if X opponent won, we'd be elsewhere wouldn't we?"

In '05, you can bet Gore or Kerry also would've beat Bush, even though Gore probably would've done everything Obama is doing now at best.

The way everything has been since 1988 when the League of Women Voters stopped moderating the debates and when Bush went Willie-Horton has pretty much polarization can and will be rampant.

Because of this an incumbent can only count on 40-50% approval under normal circumstances, another 40% is gonna be dead-set against him, and the remaining 10-20 will be moderates/centrists that will simply always support the underdog "just cuz"

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

1. Everything the republicans proposed during the fiscal cliff. Everything, even the bipartisan stuff like Keystone, that republicans proposed as an acceptable concession to end the gov. shutdown of 2013. And also http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/house-republicans-draft-their-debt-ceiling-playbook-20130707 . Three examples for you. Satisfied?

Keystone pipeline is the only concrete thing you can throw out.  One pipeline is not a significant policy proposal, I'm sorry.

2. I'm referring to October 2013 and February 2014, when he quite clearly showed that he would rather see the country default then give even a small concession to republicans.

Your idealized view of Republicans isn't reality though...  Republicans didn't ask for small concessions, they threatened to destroy the economy if their demands weren't met.  That's not how legislators who like America behave.  That's how Ernst Stavro Blofeld behaves.  If they actually worked in good faith, they would have never used the default threat.  Obama didn't create this situation, remember?  Do you remember Democrats doing this under Bush?

3. Obama supported, as did Bush, bailing out the banks with little to no restrictions. Perhaps it was the best thing to bail them out, but we should have done with the understanding that banks would permantely eliminate for the rest of time the less restrictive loan requirements that caused the recession, and JAILED these banks chief executives. Furthermore, whatever stimulus Obama did pass for the middle class, it was not enough. He promised a speedy economic recovery, we got one that is so sluggish it's not even funny.

You're wrong on the facts yet again.  This crisis wasn't caused by housing loans being too generous.  That's rewriting history.  And, remember, Obama had to work extremely hard to get a stimulus package.  Republicans wanted Hoover economics, cutting back during a recession despite the advice of any sane economist.  Obama had to fight tooth and claw to his stimulus.  If Republicans were sane, we could have gotten a bigger stimulus.  And, again, middle class tax cuts are horrible economic stimulus.  During a recession, you need to spend money on things like infrastructure and local government aid that pump money directly into the economy.

4. When he was passing his health care bill, Obama/Reid simply used strategic voting tactics (senate held a vote during a brief 60 democrat majority period, and did the rest through the vile tactic that is reconciliation), and correct me if I'm wrong here, but to my knowledge, Obama/Reid/etc. did not make truly serious attempts to get even a single republican vote in the house or senate for the bill. All that effort they did to get the vote of Ben Nelson, they should have been working equally as hard to get the vote of republicans such as Olympia Snowe, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, but they did no such thing (to my knowledge).

Republicans are bought and sold by the big special interest in the health care industry.  And, let's go back to 2009-10.  Republicans going absolutely nuts and were whipping their base into a frenzy.  Where was the slightest effort to work with Obama to craft a workable bill?  The didn't do anything, they only tried to torpedo the bill.  And, why didn't Republicans vote for the ACA?  Wouldn't have that been bipartisan, the thing you pretend to love?

5. He said on dozens of occasions "You can keep your healthcare plan no matter what, you can keep your doctor no matter what". In fact, politifact called the first part of that the 'lie of the year'. Then, he tried to deny ever lying about it.

He didn't lie.  Let's just use common sense.  Before Obamacare, could your healthcare plan stop paying for a doctor's fees.  Yes.  So, Obama never could be understood to say, you have an ironclad right to your doctor, as if he's your feudal vassal.  Nobody thought Obama meant that and if they did, they're a moron.  What he meant was that Obamacare had no effect on whether your plan's network, which is a fact.

If polifact disagrees, they're just moderate heroes or stupid.

6. Obama should have said "OK, we'll keep guantanmo open, just have fair trials and that's it". To my knowledge, he never said that. The cuts defense spending has received have been fairly modest. The bottom line here is that Clinton could work with Gingrich, Bush could work with the tied senate in first two years and the democratic congress in his last two, H.W. Bush could work with a democratic congress, Reagan could work with a democratic house for 8 years and a democratic senate for two, Ford/Nixon could work with a democratic house, etc., so Obama should be able to work with a republican house/congress. In fact, this congress of 2013-2014 is the most dysfunctional congress ever. In second place is the 2011-2012 congress. Obama likes to act like he's the first president that's ever had to work with an unfavorable congress, and that's FAR from the truth.

No Congress has been as obstructionist as this Republican Congress.  Even in the 1990s, Republicans had moderates.  Today, moderates are less than 1% of the Republican caucus.  So, how about blaming them or at least looking at the facts?  I mean, this isn't ancient history.  Facts are stubborn things.

8. It was played in senate ads across the country.

Thankfully, I missed it.

9. I'm obviously referring to the scandal, not the city.

What scandal is that?

1. Republicans had pretty concrete proposals, at least at the early part of the fiscal cliff negotiations, and that menu is fairly concrete as well.

2. Need I remind you how nice republicans were during the shutdown? They said they would accept just repealing the medical device tax, just taking away subsidies from congressional staffers, just approving keystone, just passing something on tort reform. No, it was Obama who put us completely at the mercy of speaker boehner.

3. So, loans had  NOTHING to do with the recession? '

4. NEITHER SIDE made ANY efforts. If one side had done so, perhaps the other side would have followed suit, but NEITHER SIDE made any efforts.

5. Need I remind that you several democratic votes for the health care law, Kay Hagan for example, only happened because Obama promised that you could keep your health care plan and your doctor, no matter what, over and over again? Let me suggest that you actually read the politifact article: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/ . As the article mentions, he even said it in a speech in 2009 to the american medical assoication, and I quote from the speech "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what." If you don't call that lying, you're nothing but a partisan democrat.

6. In the 1990's, Gingrich was hardly a moderate, and he was speaker of the house. Yet, he was willing to work with Clinton for the majority of his (Gingrich's) tenure as house speaker. Clinton and Gingrich both say they had a good working relationship. Obama and Boehner are just as apart politically as Clinton and Gingrich, they should be able to work together.

Also, as I've posted elsewhere, I have pretty centrist political postions, and my ballot for this year contained votes for both democrats and republicans, so to hint that I'm not bipartisan is quite ridiculous.

[The Mikado]

How did Gingrich work with Clinton? He shut down the government over sitting in the back seat on Air Force One on the way to Rabin's funeral. He funded an "independent prosecutor" who spent three years sniffing around a land deal in which the Clintons lost money, and then Gingrich was the spearhead of the first presidential impeachment in 130 years, before losing his speakership over doing exactly what Clinton had done. The only major piece of legislation passed during those four years Gingrich was speaker was a welfare reform that gave the GOP everything they wanted. How is this an example to aspire to?

[Stevens Mason]

Why does it automatically follow that, if Obama and Boehner have such a poor working relationship that the entire onus is on Obama? It's never a good idea to assume good faith on the part of people who cannot deliver.

[Panda Express]

6. In the 1990's, Gingrich was hardly a moderate, and he was speaker of the house. Yet, he was willing to work with Clinton for the majority of his (Gingrich's) tenure as house speaker. Clinton and Gingrich both say they had a good working relationship. Obama and Boehner are just as apart politically as Clinton and Gingrich, they should be able to work together.

WTF? You're 18. Stop speaking like you remember the 90s. You probably don't even know what beanie babies are.

[Beet]

Welfare reform didn't give the GOP everything they wanted; Clinton vetoed two more conservative bills before signing the PRWOA. Moreover, he himself had campaigned on Welfare reform in 1992, so in a sense he was simply fulfilling his own campaign pledge. Moreover, it is apparent that over the long term PRWOA helped the left reset the dialogue on poverty by cutting short the "welfare queens" narrative. That was a winning narrative for conservatives because it made the face of poverty non-working black single mothers, a group easily isolated and demonized. The new narratives about poverty we have today, focused on issues like the minimum wage and income inequality, which broaden the face of "the poor", could not have emerged if those old ones from the 1970s and 80s had not been replaced by welfare reform. The change made it safe for suburban whites to vote Democratic, without which neither the Clinton nor Obama coalitions would have been possible.

On the other hand, the notion that Obama didn't try to get Republicans on board with Obamacare is absurd; he had Max Baucus waste weeks on fruitless negotiations with them. Their mentality was, it doesn't matter what the bill does, if it passes, Obama can claim a major legislative achievement, so let's do everything we can to oppose it. Olympia Snowe voted for the bill in committee but party leaders basically forced her to stop working with the president. As late as July 2009 Mitt Romney wrote an op Ed praising Romneycare, but stopped talking about it after it became clear the GOP was going to oppose their own plan.

[The Mikado]

Lest we forget the halcyon days of bipartisanship past.

[Beet]

Yes, and Newt lost that confrontation. He didn't get what he wanted either politically or substantively.

[bedstuy]

1. Republicans had pretty concrete proposals, at least at the early part of the fiscal cliff negotiations, and that menu is fairly concrete as well.

Name one, besides the Keystone Pipeline.

2. Need I remind you how nice republicans were during the shutdown? They said they would accept just repealing the medical device tax, just taking away subsidies from congressional staffers, just approving keystone, just passing something on tort reform. No, it was Obama who put us completely at the mercy of speaker boehner.

You don't shut down the government down because the President refuses to gut his signature, non-budgetary policy achievement, if you're sane.  Are you being remotely serious here?  Nice?  Nice!?
  

3. So, loans had  NOTHING to do with the recession? '

You don't understand the financial crisis, you can look it up.  Suffice to say, it was a banking crisis caused by structured finance, not residential mortgages.  The structured finance facilitated the ability of banks to keep bad debt on their balance sheet and disguise it as good debt.  Without those structured finance vehicles fueling the demand for risky mortgages, the crisis never happens.  Remember, loans take an agreement of two parties.

4. NEITHER SIDE made ANY efforts. If one side had done so, perhaps the other side would have followed suit, but NEITHER SIDE made any efforts.

Democrats passed a moderate healthcare plan that was signed by Mitt Romney of all people.  Democrats larded up stimulus with tax cuts.  Democrats tried to pass cap and trade, originally a Republican idea.  Republicans just reacted to moderate centrist policies as if they were the new Five Year Plan.

5. Need I remind that you several democratic votes for the health care law, Kay Hagan for example, only happened because Obama promised that you could keep your health care plan and your doctor, no matter what, over and over again? Let me suggest that you actually read the politifact article: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/ . As the article mentions, he even said it in a speech in 2009 to the american medical assoication, and I quote from the speech "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what." If you don't call that lying, you're nothing but a partisan democrat.

Is the ACA an Federally controlled HMO or government insurance plan?  No, it's not.  How about responding to that point.

6. In the 1990's, Gingrich was hardly a moderate, and he was speaker of the house. Yet, he was willing to work with Clinton for the majority of his (Gingrich's) tenure as house speaker. Clinton and Gingrich both say they had a good working relationship. Obama and Boehner are just as apart politically as Clinton and Gingrich, they should be able to work together.

As people have pointed out, Gingrich also shut down the government.  Let's be honest, you don't know what went on during the 1990s, like you don't know what went on under Obama.  Stop being a moderate hero who assumes that both sides are always equally at fault.  It's silly.

Also, as I've posted elsewhere, I have pretty centrist political postions, and my ballot for this year contained votes for both democrats and republicans, so to hint that I'm not bipartisan is quite ridiculous.

I don't care if you're bipartisan, you're not objective because of your phony "moderate hero" perspective.  If you don't know the facts and you always try to hold a centrist position, you're guaranteed to be wrong.  Sometimes one side is right about an issue.

Also, what about Benghazi?  What's the scandal?

[angus]

Why is Obama so unpopular?

Because he has been a huge disappointment.  Like many voters, I bought into his rap.  Whatever he was selling, I was buying.  Gonna change the tone in Washington.  Gonna do the nation's business.  There ain't no Democratic America.  There ain't no Republican America.  There's just one America, and we're gonna make it work.

Within six months of his presidency, he was shuffling off to the G20 summit in Seoul and coming back empty handed, accusing the Cambridge, MA police department of "acting stupidly," and trying to convince the International Olympic Committee to have the Olympics in Chicago next time.  (Which he failed to do, I might add.)  

think about it:  One Missouri man is murdered in cold blood by a cop who doesn't get indicted and all Obama can think of to say is "we gotta respect the order of things."  But let his high-caste friend get arrested in Cambridge and suddenly he's thrown all out of whack.  His elitist credentials begin to belie him in those moments.  What a disappointment.  

What about ending the Bush tax cuts?  The one time he might have done something he promised to do in his campaign speeches, and had the popular support to do, was push for ending the Bush tax cuts.  But no, he kicked that can down the road.  Meanwhile, our bridges are crumbling.

And did he change the tone in Washington?  You bet he did.  He made it worse.  

His drone war has been downright disheartening.  He has acknowledged that American drones had killed civilians, calling them "heartbreaking tragedies,"--emphasis on the irony contained in the fact that while he probably doesn't even know the true greek meaning of the word, they were indeed Tragedies in the original sense--and yet he went on to defend drones as the most discriminating aerial bombers available in modern warfare.

It should be no surprise that some of us who voted for him in 2008 decided not to vote for him in 2012.  Obama has been a big disappointment to me, personally.  I had big hopes when I helped elect him in 2008.  He talks a big game.  I'll give him credit for that.

[CapoteMonster]

How did Gingrich work with Clinton? He shut down the government over sitting in the back seat on Air Force One on the way to Rabin's funeral. He funded an "independent prosecutor" who spent three years sniffing around a land deal in which the Clintons lost money, and then Gingrich was the spearhead of the first presidential impeachment in 130 years, before losing his speakership over doing exactly what Clinton had done. The only major piece of legislation passed during those four years Gingrich was speaker was a welfare reform that gave the GOP everything they wanted. How is this an example to aspire to?

Quit straw-manning Wulfric's arguments. He never said Clinton's relationship with Gingrich was ideal, he just used that as a example since that congress was also very partisan but more productive than any congress under Obama's tenure. He also never implied Republicans had no part in this congress not getting anything done.