Why is Obama so unpopular?
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King
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« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2014, 10:19:46 PM »

Clinton and Gingrich's relationship was worse than Obama and Boehner. The reason Gingrich was more "productive" is because the GOP controlled the Senate as well, so bills actually made it to the President's desk and he happened to sign a few. No compromise was really ever reached in the 90s.
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Flake
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« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2014, 11:03:39 PM »

I disapprove of his tenure for many reasons:

1. Clearly believing, on issue after issue after issue, throughout his term, that partisan democrats have a monopoly on good ideas, despite saying that he doesn't believe such a thing.

2. Preferring defaulting on our debt over negotiating.

3. His refusal to pass stimulus for the middle class, instead catering to the moguls and big banks on wall street, resulting in a recovery that has been extremely sluggish and, six years into his presidency, leaves underemployment in double digits (it was ~8% before the recession), and wages/labor participation much too low.

4. Refusing to work with republicans when he passed his health care reform, despite promising he would, and then passing a law too long for anyone to read, filled with terrible provisions such as the 30 hour work week and the medical device tax.

5. Lying about certain provisions of said health care law over and over and over again, then trying to deny having lied about them, and refusing to get the website properly betatested.

6. Refusal to permantely cut overall military spending or push for fair trials for Guantanamo bay prisoners, despite promising to do so.

7. Taking too long to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which have not accomplished enough to merit being stretched out as long as they are/were.

8. His "policies are on the ballot" 2014 gaffe, which may have sunk Begich and Hagan, both of which I really like.

9. Benghazi

Wulfric, we need to talk.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2014, 11:42:51 PM »

Clinton and Gingrich's relationship was worse than Obama and Boehner. The reason Gingrich was more "productive" is because the GOP controlled the Senate as well, so bills actually made it to the President's desk and he happened to sign a few. No compromise was really ever reached in the 90s.

Yeah, I seem to recall a government shutdown and the President being impeached over his sex life.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2014, 11:52:45 PM »

Clinton and Gingrich's relationship was worse than Obama and Boehner. The reason Gingrich was more "productive" is because the GOP controlled the Senate as well, so bills actually made it to the President's desk and he happened to sign a few. No compromise was really ever reached in the 90s.

After the initial government shutdown standoff, Clinton and the GOP Congress were able to reach subsequent budget deals much more easily than I imagine Obama will ever be able to with this Congress.  But that's because the economy was booming and the government was flush with cash.  The economy was strong enough that the president and Congress didn't really need to do anything new at that point in order to balance the budget.  That's unlikely to occur again any time soon.
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angus
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« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2014, 08:30:17 AM »

I will say that I admire his words in his acceptance speech of the blatantly politically motivated Nobel Peace prize that he was awarded just a few months into his presidency.  I was incredulous that they'd award the prize to a new president with little prior experience and whose nation was involved in two simultaneous wars.  Then again, they awarded a similar prize to Yashir Arafat so it should not be surprising.  Still, we should credit Obama for publicly acknowledging all this.  In his acceptance speech, he said, among other things,

" I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage.  Compared to some of the giants of history who've received this prize -- Schweitzer and King; Marshall and Mandela -- my accomplishments are slight.  And then there are the men and women around the world who have been jailed and beaten in the pursuit of justice; those who toil in humanitarian organizations to relieve suffering; the unrecognized millions whose quiet acts of courage and compassion inspire even the most hardened cynics.  I cannot argue with those who find these men and women -- some known, some obscure to all but those they help -- to be far more deserving of this honor than I.  But perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that I am the Commander-in-Chief of the military of a nation in the midst of two wars..."

I think that was very gracious. 

I also think he showed some courage when he handled immigration reform via execution.  There may yet be backlash, but it showed guts.  Why he hasn't consistently showed such courage I do not know, but I do think that he has from time to time acted in a ways both courageous and gracious, so he isn't without redeeming qualities.  Overall, however, his presidency has been a pretty big disappointment to many of us that supported him initially. 
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t_host1
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« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2014, 09:05:01 AM »

I will say that I admire his words in his acceptance speech of the blatantly politically motivated Nobel Peace prize that he was awarded just a few months into his presidency.  I was incredulous that they'd award the prize to a new president with little prior experience and whose nation was involved in two simultaneous wars.  Then again, they awarded a similar prize to Yashir Arafat so it should not be surprising.  Still, we should credit Obama for publicly acknowledging all this.  In his acceptance speech, he said, among other things,

" I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage.  Compared to some of the giants of history who've received this prize -- Schweitzer and King; Marshall and Mandela -- my accomplishments are slight.  And then there are the men and women around the world who have been jailed and beaten in the pursuit of justice; those who toil in humanitarian organizations to relieve suffering; the unrecognized millions whose quiet acts of courage and compassion inspire even the most hardened cynics.  I cannot argue with those who find these men and women -- some known, some obscure to all but those they help -- to be far more deserving of this honor than I.  But perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that I am the Commander-in-Chief of the military of a nation in the midst of two wars..."

I think that was very gracious. 

I also think he showed some courage when he handled immigration reform via execution.  There may yet be backlash, but it showed guts.  Why he hasn't consistently showed such courage I do not know, but I do think that he has from time to time acted in a ways both courageous and gracious, so he isn't without redeeming qualities.  Overall, however, his presidency has been a pretty big disappointment to many of us that supported him initially. 

Courage!! Obama is a coward of the tallest order; It has been report that there isn’t any presidential (OBAMA) executive order containing language for waving illegal immigration (illegal inhabitants) from being deported. So to help avoid criminal prosecution he merely wrote a memo to homeland security to break the law and stop deportations of any non-violent criminals who will vote for democrats and sign up for Obamacare. COURAGE!!! Authored by the Clinton’s; IS, the ability to break laws and get away with it, by accolade. 

The memo, is in redacted files never to be recognized, as for the executive order of courage, show me, I'm from Missouri.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2014, 09:11:57 AM »

Also, I'm not sure I buy the idea that the president is absurdly unpopular. If the electorate had a choice tomorrow between Barack Obama/Joe Biden and John McCain/Sarah Palin, do you think McCain would win? Or Barack Obama/Joe Biden vs Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan? I don't think the electorate would do a takeback on either of the last two elections.

Certainly  no take backs, my friend.  But all you're really saying is he beat piss poor candidates.....though I agree he's not as wildly unpopular as many think.
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angus
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« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2014, 09:30:15 AM »

I will say that I admire his words in his acceptance speech of the blatantly politically motivated Nobel Peace prize that he was awarded just a few months into his presidency.  I was incredulous that they'd award the prize to a new president with little prior experience and whose nation was involved in two simultaneous wars.  Then again, they awarded a similar prize to Yashir Arafat so it should not be surprising.  Still, we should credit Obama for publicly acknowledging all this.  In his acceptance speech, he said, among other things,

" I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage.  Compared to some of the giants of history who've received this prize -- Schweitzer and King; Marshall and Mandela -- my accomplishments are slight.  And then there are the men and women around the world who have been jailed and beaten in the pursuit of justice; those who toil in humanitarian organizations to relieve suffering; the unrecognized millions whose quiet acts of courage and compassion inspire even the most hardened cynics.  I cannot argue with those who find these men and women -- some known, some obscure to all but those they help -- to be far more deserving of this honor than I.  But perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that I am the Commander-in-Chief of the military of a nation in the midst of two wars..."

I think that was very gracious.  

I also think he showed some courage when he handled immigration reform via execution.  There may yet be backlash, but it showed guts.  Why he hasn't consistently showed such courage I do not know, but I do think that he has from time to time acted in a ways both courageous and gracious, so he isn't without redeeming qualities.  Overall, however, his presidency has been a pretty big disappointment to many of us that supported him initially.  

Courage!! Obama is a coward of the tallest order; It has been report that there isn’t any presidential (OBAMA) executive order containing language for waving illegal immigration (illegal inhabitants) from being deported. So to help avoid criminal prosecution he merely wrote a memo to homeland security to break the law and stop deportations of any non-violent criminals who will vote for democrats and sign up for Obamacare. COURAGE!!! Authored by the Clinton’s; IS, the ability to break laws and get away with it, by accolade.  

The memo, is in redacted files never to be recognized, as for the executive order of courage, show me, I'm from Missouri.

I'm not a fan of rule by fiat.  I don't like the active judiciary or the executive order in general, but a blanket amnesty from time to time is a good thing.  It clears the air.  Brings people out of the shadows.  It's good for the economy and good for the soul.  The congress wasn't going to act on this, so the president used his lameness wisely.  Obama's memo falls short of proper magnanimity, of course, but it was a step in the right direction.  I think he probably recognizes that his repeated statements regarding the constitutional limitations on his power to affect immigration policy inhibited him from making a more sweeping change.  You can spin that as cowardice.  I won't argue with you over that, but to me I think even a small measure shows some backbone.  Obviously, in many other instances and on other issues he has not shown so much.  
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angus
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« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2014, 10:25:53 AM »

Basically, I think his low approvals are a symptom of the damaging polarization that has gripped the U.S. increasingly in recent decades.

One other point I want to make is that this theory isn't really borne out.

In 2008 69.5 million voters voted for Obama.  In 2012 65.9 million did.  Obama therefore lost 3.6 million, or 5.2%, of his original voters.  How does damaging polarization explain that? 

In 2012, 51% of the voters voted to re-elect him.  This was a clear victory over his opponent's 47%.  Presumably, 51% of the voters at least approved enough of him to bother casting a vote in favor of his return to the presidency.  Now, according to the most recent poll I have seen, approximately 39% of the registered voters approve of his job performance.  (24% "strongly" approve.)  How does damaging polarization explain that?

Sometimes conspiracy theories are not the best explanation.  When that happens, we call Occam's Razor to the rescue.  The fact that he has been a major disappointment to the voter requires fewer assumption that the theory of damaging polarization. 
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« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2014, 10:30:28 AM »

Is he?  He is far, far, far more popular than Congress, the courts, or any other nationally recognized politicians actually holding office right now.  You can also blame the media-driven narrative that Obama has been a failure in implementing the type of "change" he wanted to.  I never saw him as a socialist revolutionary, some I'm just fine with all he's done for the economy, healthcare reform, and the gays. 
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krazen1211
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« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2014, 12:11:29 PM »

The 53% of course.
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justfollowingtheelections
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« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2014, 02:59:55 PM »
« Edited: December 10, 2014, 03:02:32 PM by blagohair.com »

I don't think he is really that unpopular.  If they asked me what my opinion of Obama is I would probably say unfavorable, but that doesn't mean I dislike him or wish we had a Republican president instead (or Hilary).

I never voted for Obama (I voted for Nader in '08 and Stein in '12) partly because I was living in deep blue states during both elections and an extra vote for Obama wouldn't make a difference but also because I would rather support the person I was closer to ideologically.  While I didn't vote for him I was really happy Obama won both times.  Seeing groups of strangers, people of different colors, ethnic or religious backgrounds celebrate in Union Square in 2008 was one of the most hopeful moments of my life and while I don't think Obama has been a great president, I think his presidency will fundamentally change America.  Having a black president I feel has changed the lives of many black kids around the country, kids who now believe they can accomplish anything (which was certainly not the case before).
I was also really happy he beat Hilary, partly because of what he represented as a candidate, but also because I didn't want a party machine candidate who had voted for the war in Iraq (a vote that told me she either had no political conviction or was a very bad politician, and I feel the same way about Biden and all other Democrats that voted for the war).
Having said that, I couldn't help but feel he was really phony.  What bothered me the most, and the main reason I didn't vote for him was that he came out as a Christian right before the election.  Not because he chose to be a Christian (I have no problem with religious people as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me), but because of the explanation he gave for why he became a Christian after being raised without a religion.  I was also bothered by the fact that he tried to come out as a moderate on issues where the other side is so far-right.  
I feel that he has done some decent things (Obamacare was a step in the right direction even though there's a lot more that needs to be done when it comes to healthcare in this country) but the fact that he has been more of a follower on more issues than a leader really bothers me.  I believe he is a very intelligent man (unlike most politicians) and his heart is in the right place and that's what makes his presidency more disappointing.  but do I think he is a bad president?  No.
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angus
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« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2014, 03:25:49 PM »

If they asked me what my opinion of Obama is I would probably say unfavorable, but that doesn't mean I dislike him or wish we had a Republican president instead (or Hilary).

True enough, favorability ratings aren't to be interpreted in vacuo, but I don't think the basis of comparison is, or ever has been, some alternative universe in which a different person holds the office.  If that were the case, Obama would have a floor of about 50% and Bush would have had a floor of about 48%. 

The point of comparison to Obama isn't Bush or Hillary or Romney, the comparison is of Candidate Obama to President Obama.  This was my expectation.  This is the reality.  When the real doesn't match the ideal--and it never does--then my support begins to wane.  If the reality is far enough away from ideality, then I begin to answer the pollster in the negative.  If it gets too far away, then I do not vote to re-elect the incumbent.  Obama lost some support between 2008 and 2012, and his support has eroded further since then.  The question is why?  I think it is due to his own action (or inaction.)


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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2014, 03:28:36 PM »


Many of the 47% voted for Romney, krazen.
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« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2014, 04:48:09 PM »


I realize you are certain Americans are a bunch of imbeciles, but I assure you that Obama being a black was common knowledge in Jan 2009 when his approvals were in the upper 60s.
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« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2014, 05:03:08 PM »

I will say that I admire his words in his acceptance speech of the blatantly politically motivated Nobel Peace prize that he was awarded just a few months into his presidency.  I was incredulous that they'd award the prize to a new president with little prior experience and whose nation was involved in two simultaneous wars.  Then again, they awarded a similar prize to Yashir Arafat so it should not be surprising.  Still, we should credit Obama for publicly acknowledging all this.  In his acceptance speech, he said, among other things,

" I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage.  Compared to some of the giants of history who've received this prize -- Schweitzer and King; Marshall and Mandela -- my accomplishments are slight.  And then there are the men and women around the world who have been jailed and beaten in the pursuit of justice; those who toil in humanitarian organizations to relieve suffering; the unrecognized millions whose quiet acts of courage and compassion inspire even the most hardened cynics.  I cannot argue with those who find these men and women -- some known, some obscure to all but those they help -- to be far more deserving of this honor than I.  But perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that I am the Commander-in-Chief of the military of a nation in the midst of two wars..."

I think that was very gracious.  

I also think he showed some courage when he handled immigration reform via execution.  There may yet be backlash, but it showed guts.  Why he hasn't consistently showed such courage I do not know, but I do think that he has from time to time acted in a ways both courageous and gracious, so he isn't without redeeming qualities.  Overall, however, his presidency has been a pretty big disappointment to many of us that supported him initially.  

Courage!! Obama is a coward of the tallest order; It has been report that there isn’t any presidential (OBAMA) executive order containing language for waving illegal immigration (illegal inhabitants) from being deported. So to help avoid criminal prosecution he merely wrote a memo to homeland security to break the law and stop deportations of any non-violent criminals who will vote for democrats and sign up for Obamacare. COURAGE!!! Authored by the Clinton’s; IS, the ability to break laws and get away with it, by accolade.  

The memo, is in redacted files never to be recognized, as for the executive order of courage, show me, I'm from Missouri.

I'm not a fan of rule by fiat.  I don't like the active judiciary or the executive order in general, but a blanket amnesty from time to time is a good thing.<STOP>On condition of; the liability, “0” and the asset, “1” per entry;  second, the entry must "pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."<CONTINUE>  It clears the air.<STOP> This clearing the air act implies that there’s a residual pollutant(s), this is scrubbed by; at the same time as the pollutant enters, a legal entry is granted at the pleasure and payment by the pollutant entry.<CONTINUE>  Brings people out of the shadows.<STOP> The new asset to clear it’s shadow will under oath and polygraph answer to; state all votes cast for local, state and general elections and for whom. Fees will be assessed as would any US Citizen be charged for an illegal vote.<CONTINUE>   It's good for the economy and good for the soul.  The congress wasn't going to act on this, so the president used his lameness wisely.  Obama's memo falls short of proper magnanimity, of course, but it was a step in the right direction.  I think he probably recognizes that his repeated statements regarding the constitutional limitations on his power to affect immigration policy inhibited him from making a more sweeping change.  You can spin that as cowardice.  I won't argue with you over that, but to me I think even a small measure shows some backbone.<STOP> I can only attain your rationale’s reasoning for the backbone of Barack Hussein Obama to be, his courage to, “solemnly swear, "Barack Hussein Obama" that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", which he had to do twice because the first time, publicly, he just couldn’t do it. <CONTINUE>  Obviously, in many other instances and on other issues he has not shown so much.  

I mean, Obama isn't unpopular with me, I'm involved with him every day.
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« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2014, 05:05:36 PM »

I will say that I admire his words in his acceptance speech of the blatantly politically motivated Nobel Peace prize that he was awarded just a few months into his presidency.  I was incredulous that they'd award the prize to a new president with little prior experience and whose nation was involved in two simultaneous wars.  Then again, they awarded a similar prize to Yashir Arafat so it should not be surprising.  Still, we should credit Obama for publicly acknowledging all this.  In his acceptance speech, he said, among other things,

" I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage.  Compared to some of the giants of history who've received this prize -- Schweitzer and King; Marshall and Mandela -- my accomplishments are slight.  And then there are the men and women around the world who have been jailed and beaten in the pursuit of justice; those who toil in humanitarian organizations to relieve suffering; the unrecognized millions whose quiet acts of courage and compassion inspire even the most hardened cynics.  I cannot argue with those who find these men and women -- some known, some obscure to all but those they help -- to be far more deserving of this honor than I.  But perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that I am the Commander-in-Chief of the military of a nation in the midst of two wars..."

I think that was very gracious.  

I also think he showed some courage when he handled immigration reform via execution.  There may yet be backlash, but it showed guts.  Why he hasn't consistently showed such courage I do not know, but I do think that he has from time to time acted in a ways both courageous and gracious, so he isn't without redeeming qualities.  Overall, however, his presidency has been a pretty big disappointment to many of us that supported him initially.  

Courage!! Obama is a coward of the tallest order; It has been report that there isn’t any presidential (OBAMA) executive order containing language for waving illegal immigration (illegal inhabitants) from being deported. So to help avoid criminal prosecution he merely wrote a memo to homeland security to break the law and stop deportations of any non-violent criminals who will vote for democrats and sign up for Obamacare. COURAGE!!! Authored by the Clinton’s; IS, the ability to break laws and get away with it, by accolade.  

The memo, is in redacted files never to be recognized, as for the executive order of courage, show me, I'm from Missouri.

I'm not a fan of rule by fiat.  I don't like the active judiciary or the executive order in general, but a blanket amnesty from time to time is a good thing.<STOP>On condition of; the liability, “0” and the asset, “1” per entry;  second, the entry must "pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."<CONTINUE>  It clears the air.<STOP> This clearing the air act implies that there’s a residual pollutant(s), this is scrubbed by; at the same time as the pollutant enters, a legal entry is granted at the pleasure and payment by the pollutant entry.<CONTINUE>  Brings people out of the shadows.<STOP> The new asset to clear it’s shadow will under oath and polygraph answer to; state all votes cast for local, state and general elections and for whom. Fees will be assessed as would any US Citizen be charged for an illegal vote.<CONTINUE>   It's good for the economy and good for the soul.  The congress wasn't going to act on this, so the president used his lameness wisely.  Obama's memo falls short of proper magnanimity, of course, but it was a step in the right direction.  I think he probably recognizes that his repeated statements regarding the constitutional limitations on his power to affect immigration policy inhibited him from making a more sweeping change.  You can spin that as cowardice.  I won't argue with you over that, but to me I think even a small measure shows some backbone.<STOP> I can only attain your rationale’s reasoning for the backbone of Barack Hussein Obama to be, his courage to, “solemnly swear, "Barack Hussein Obama" that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", which he had to do twice because the first time, publicly, he just couldn’t do it. <CONTINUE>  Obviously, in many other instances and on other issues he has not shown so much.  

I mean, Obama isn't unpopular with me, I'm involved with him every day.

What?
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« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2014, 05:26:37 PM »

The t_host1 story just grew a whole new surreal dimension.
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« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2014, 06:49:13 PM »

It's a combination of high expectations (which his campaign did not downplay in 2008) and low results.

He is culturally rather liberal, so that will lead to some pushback.

I think his biggest problem was in what he did when he got to Washington. His strategy was to peel off some Republicans in passing massive bits of legislation, rather than splitting legislation to allow some opportunities for bipartisan votes. You can make an argument that if that happened, unpopular elements of legislation like the Affordable Care Act would never be passed, although that would be part of his unpopularity.
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« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2014, 06:57:43 PM »

I think his biggest problem was in what he did when he got to Washington. His strategy was to peel off some Republicans in passing massive bits of legislation, rather than splitting legislation to allow some opportunities for bipartisan votes. You can make an argument that if that happened, unpopular elements of legislation like the Affordable Care Act would never be passed, although that would be part of his unpopularity.

Obviously you lived in an alternate reality since January 2009 where McConnell and Bhoener were possessed by the spirits of Everett Dirksen and Bob Michel.
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« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2014, 07:13:42 PM »

I think his biggest problem was in what he did when he got to Washington. His strategy was to peel off some Republicans in passing massive bits of legislation, rather than splitting legislation to allow some opportunities for bipartisan votes. You can make an argument that if that happened, unpopular elements of legislation like the Affordable Care Act would never be passed, although that would be part of his unpopularity.

Obviously you lived in an alternate reality since January 2009 where McConnell and Bhoener were possessed by the spirits of Everett Dirksen and Bob Michel.
Yeah, because 2009-2011 had such a strong GOP majority!
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angus
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« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2014, 07:45:32 PM »

I will say that I admire his words in his acceptance speech of the blatantly politically motivated Nobel Peace prize that he was awarded just a few months into his presidency.  I was incredulous that they'd award the prize to a new president with little prior experience and whose nation was involved in two simultaneous wars.  Then again, they awarded a similar prize to Yashir Arafat so it should not be surprising.  Still, we should credit Obama for publicly acknowledging all this.  In his acceptance speech, he said, among other things,

" I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage.  Compared to some of the giants of history who've received this prize -- Schweitzer and King; Marshall and Mandela -- my accomplishments are slight.  And then there are the men and women around the world who have been jailed and beaten in the pursuit of justice; those who toil in humanitarian organizations to relieve suffering; the unrecognized millions whose quiet acts of courage and compassion inspire even the most hardened cynics.  I cannot argue with those who find these men and women -- some known, some obscure to all but those they help -- to be far more deserving of this honor than I.  But perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that I am the Commander-in-Chief of the military of a nation in the midst of two wars..."

I think that was very gracious.  

I also think he showed some courage when he handled immigration reform via execution.  There may yet be backlash, but it showed guts.  Why he hasn't consistently showed such courage I do not know, but I do think that he has from time to time acted in a ways both courageous and gracious, so he isn't without redeeming qualities.  Overall, however, his presidency has been a pretty big disappointment to many of us that supported him initially.  

Courage!! Obama is a coward of the tallest order; It has been report that there isn’t any presidential (OBAMA) executive order containing language for waving illegal immigration (illegal inhabitants) from being deported. So to help avoid criminal prosecution he merely wrote a memo to homeland security to break the law and stop deportations of any non-violent criminals who will vote for democrats and sign up for Obamacare. COURAGE!!! Authored by the Clinton’s; IS, the ability to break laws and get away with it, by accolade.  

The memo, is in redacted files never to be recognized, as for the executive order of courage, show me, I'm from Missouri.

I'm not a fan of rule by fiat.  I don't like the active judiciary or the executive order in general, but a blanket amnesty from time to time is a good thing.<STOP>On condition of; the liability, “0” and the asset, “1” per entry;  second, the entry must "pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."<CONTINUE>  It clears the air.<STOP> This clearing the air act implies that there’s a residual pollutant(s), this is scrubbed by; at the same time as the pollutant enters, a legal entry is granted at the pleasure and payment by the pollutant entry.<CONTINUE>  Brings people out of the shadows.<STOP> The new asset to clear it’s shadow will under oath and polygraph answer to; state all votes cast for local, state and general elections and for whom. Fees will be assessed as would any US Citizen be charged for an illegal vote.<CONTINUE>   It's good for the economy and good for the soul.  The congress wasn't going to act on this, so the president used his lameness wisely.  Obama's memo falls short of proper magnanimity, of course, but it was a step in the right direction.  I think he probably recognizes that his repeated statements regarding the constitutional limitations on his power to affect immigration policy inhibited him from making a more sweeping change.  You can spin that as cowardice.  I won't argue with you over that, but to me I think even a small measure shows some backbone.<STOP> I can only attain your rationale’s reasoning for the backbone of Barack Hussein Obama to be, his courage to, “solemnly swear, "Barack Hussein Obama" that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", which he had to do twice because the first time, publicly, he just couldn’t do it. <CONTINUE>  Obviously, in many other instances and on other issues he has not shown so much.  

I mean, Obama isn't unpopular with me, I'm involved with him every day.


Well, as I said, I wasn't looking for an argument, but that's kinda sorta basically what I meant.  (I'm a little unclear on the last sentence you wrote--the one about being involved with him every day--but I'll assume sardonism and just let it go.)

Yes, it's reasonable that with the amnesty the presumption is of some feeling of devotion.  I hadn't used the term "loyalty" exactly, and I would not necessarily require a pledge to that effect, but it is very likely that when a nation which affords great economic mobility to its people allows immigrants from nations with less economic mobility, those immigrants will naturally feel some allegiance with their new nation. 

Yes, there's some pollution in the national mindset  when its citizens feel that they cannot be totally honest on their tax returns.  I'm a bit unclear on the "fees will be assessed" aspect, but I assume that you're referring to taxes.

On the third point, I think that either you are misinterpreting me or I am misinterpreting you.  Obama took the same oath that 43 other US Presidents took, and I assume that all 44 of them meant what they said.  That's not particularly courageous.  And the little contretemps that Obama experienced the first time was due to the fact that Chief Justice John Roberts made a mistake, not Obama. 

Don't read too much into it when a politician floats an idea to see if it catches on.  Sure, he could have shown more balls, but don't let Jeff Sessions tell you what to think about Obama.


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krazen1211
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« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2014, 08:36:54 PM »


Ah,  but that was 2 years ago. In the 2014 exit polls Republican candidates won a landslide victory among successful and patriotic Americans. The 53% are in open revolt!
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IceSpear
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« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2014, 10:50:22 PM »

4. When he was passing his health care bill, Obama/Reid simply used strategic voting tactics (senate held a vote during a brief 60 democrat majority period, and did the rest through the vile tactic that is reconciliation), and correct me if I'm wrong here, but to my knowledge, Obama/Reid/etc. did not make truly serious attempts to get even a single republican vote in the house or senate for the bill. All that effort they did to get the vote of Ben Nelson, they should have been working equally as hard to get the vote of republicans such as Olympia Snowe, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, but they did no such thing (to my knowledge).

That's false. Obama and Baucus spent months watering down the ACA to try to attract Republican support in meetings with Enzi, Grassley, and Snowe, among others. That's why the bill ended up being a national version of Romneycare, which the GOP constantly touted as a "market based solution that works" until the black guy supported it. Hell, Snowe even voted for the bill in committee. But the Republicans decided in a secret meeting on day one of Obama's presidency to obstruct everything he did in an attempt to win in 2010, and at the end of the day even Snowe gave in to the pressure to vote against Obamacare/Romneycare.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/robert-draper-anti-obama-campaign_n_1452899.html
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t_host1
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« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2014, 11:18:49 PM »

I will say that I admire his words in his acceptance speech of the blatantly politically motivated Nobel Peace prize that he was awarded just a few months into his presidency.  I was incredulous that they'd award the prize to a new president with little prior experience and whose nation was involved in two simultaneous wars.  Then again, they awarded a similar prize to Yashir Arafat so it should not be surprising.  Still, we should credit Obama for publicly acknowledging all this.  In his acceptance speech, he said, among other things,

" I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. In part, this is because I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage.  Compared to some of the giants of history who've received this prize -- Schweitzer and King; Marshall and Mandela -- my accomplishments are slight.  And then there are the men and women around the world who have been jailed and beaten in the pursuit of justice; those who toil in humanitarian organizations to relieve suffering; the unrecognized millions whose quiet acts of courage and compassion inspire even the most hardened cynics.  I cannot argue with those who find these men and women -- some known, some obscure to all but those they help -- to be far more deserving of this honor than I.  But perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that I am the Commander-in-Chief of the military of a nation in the midst of two wars..."

I think that was very gracious.  

I also think he showed some courage when he handled immigration reform via execution.  There may yet be backlash, but it showed guts.  Why he hasn't consistently showed such courage I do not know, but I do think that he has from time to time acted in a ways both courageous and gracious, so he isn't without redeeming qualities.  Overall, however, his presidency has been a pretty big disappointment to many of us that supported him initially.  

Courage!! Obama is a coward of the tallest order; It has been report that there isn’t any presidential (OBAMA) executive order containing language for waving illegal immigration (illegal inhabitants) from being deported. So to help avoid criminal prosecution he merely wrote a memo to homeland security to break the law and stop deportations of any non-violent criminals who will vote for democrats and sign up for Obamacare. COURAGE!!! Authored by the Clinton’s; IS, the ability to break laws and get away with it, by accolade.  

The memo, is in redacted files never to be recognized, as for the executive order of courage, show me, I'm from Missouri.

I'm not a fan of rule by fiat.  I don't like the active judiciary or the executive order in general, but a blanket amnesty from time to time is a good thing.<STOP>On condition of; the liability, “0” and the asset, “1” per entry;  second, the entry must "pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."<CONTINUE>  It clears the air.<STOP> This clearing the air act implies that there’s a residual pollutant(s), this is scrubbed by; at the same time as the pollutant enters, a legal entry is granted at the pleasure and payment by the pollutant entry.<CONTINUE>  Brings people out of the shadows.<STOP> The new asset to clear it’s shadow will under oath and polygraph answer to; state all votes cast for local, state and general elections and for whom. Fees will be assessed as would any US Citizen be charged for an illegal vote.<CONTINUE>   It's good for the economy and good for the soul.  The congress wasn't going to act on this, so the president used his lameness wisely.  Obama's memo falls short of proper magnanimity, of course, but it was a step in the right direction.  I think he probably recognizes that his repeated statements regarding the constitutional limitations on his power to affect immigration policy inhibited him from making a more sweeping change.  You can spin that as cowardice.  I won't argue with you over that, but to me I think even a small measure shows some backbone.<STOP> I can only attain your rationale’s reasoning for the backbone of Barack Hussein Obama to be, his courage to, “solemnly swear, "Barack Hussein Obama" that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", which he had to do twice because the first time, publicly, he just couldn’t do it. <CONTINUE>  Obviously, in many other instances and on other issues he has not shown so much.  

I mean, Obama isn't unpopular with me, I'm involved with him every day.


Well, as I said, I wasn't looking for an argument, but that's kinda sorta basically what I meant.  (I'm a little unclear on the last sentence you wrote--the one about being involved with him every day--but I'll assume sardonism and just let it go.)

Yes, it's reasonable that with the amnesty the presumption is of some feeling of devotion.  I hadn't used the term "loyalty" exactly, and I would not necessarily require a pledge to that effect, but it is very likely that when a nation which affords great economic mobility to its people allows immigrants from nations with less economic mobility, those immigrants will naturally feel some allegiance with their new nation. 

Yes, there's some pollution in the national mindset  when its citizens feel that they cannot be totally honest on their tax returns.  I'm a bit unclear on the "fees will be assessed" aspect, but I assume that you're referring to taxes.

On the third point, I think that either you are misinterpreting me or I am misinterpreting you.  Obama took the same oath that 43 other US Presidents took, and I assume that all 44 of them meant what they said.  That's not particularly courageous.  And the little contretemps that Obama experienced the first time was due to the fact that Chief Justice John Roberts made a mistake, not Obama. 

Don't read too much into it when a politician floats an idea to see if it catches on.  Sure, he could have shown more balls, but don't let Jeff Sessions tell you what to think about Obama.



Ok, I was just agreeing on the inhabitants who choose not to check in - how to square things up.
 And, that Obama taking that oath was the hardest thing for him to do when considering that Obama believes the constitution restriction on government is the ill of the land.  have a good day
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