Gambia approves new anti-gay criminal code

[Sol]

Rather under-reported by most non-gay western media.

Apparently this was passed in October but was not revealed to the public.

Homophobia is a pattern with Yahya Jammeh, who in the past has threatened "to cut off the heads of homosexuals."

Jammeh continues to be horrible.

[Cory]

Typical.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Still a FF on balance for leaving the Commonwealth.

[politicus]

Still a FF on balance for leaving the Commonwealth.

[Sol]

Bomb them.

You do realize that isn't the worst anti-gay law in existence, right?

[Illuminati Blood Drinker]

Still a FF on balance for leaving the Commonwealth.

Oh, Snowstalker. Once again proving modern anti-imperialism is second in its degeneracy only to modern American conservatism.

[politicus]

Bomb them.

You do realize that isn't the worst anti-gay law in existence, right?

If you know that, why did you make a separate thread about it? (instead of just posting it in the African News thread). There isn't that much to discuss other than people writing different versions of horrible and disgusting and Snowstalker trolling even more stupidly than usual. It's an anti-Western authoritarian regime in a 90% Muslim country, so you don't have the link to US Christian fundies to debate.

Jammeh needs scapegoats to keep up support/defuse discontent and gays are perfect for that. And there isn't much we can do about it, since they can easily find replacement markets in Asia for their export if we try sanctions. Their tourist industry is to a large degree dependent on female sex tourism, for which there will always be a market, so a consumer boycott is unrealistic.

[Famous Mortimer]

I read Snowwalker's post as a joke rather than a troll. I don't think he expected to anyone to believe those were his real thoughts.

[politicus]

I may have been a bit acerbic about this, but the point is that it doesn't make much sense to debate the horrible conditions of gays in countries where the human rights situation is abysmal for everybody. It is for example hardly surprising that people get executed for being gay in Mauritania, when the country tolerates actual slavery and a master can kill his slave unpunished.

This is the current situation in Africa and a lot of the countries where homosexuality is illegal are free or semi-free electoral democracies, where LGBT groups are organizing and fighting to get registered, so they can operate freely - recently with success in places like Kenya and Botswana - and are campaigning under very difficult circumstances . It gives a lot more meaning to focus on helping the local activists in countries where there is an actual chance of improvements, than being up in arms about a place like Gambia, where you need regime change for anything positive to happen.





green = free, yellow = semi-free, purple = non-free in the Freedom House definition.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Although I'm not one of those awful "homosexuality is a Western obsession!" pricks, I find it odd that the western media, liberals soapboxers and politicians find it easy to ignore every other human rights violation beyond these anti-gay laws. How often did you read condemnation of Yoweri Musenevi, for instance, for his numerous crimes against the people; before the anti-homosexuality laws flared up? And of course, the reality of Western countries turning a blind eye to the state enforced homophobia of the GCC due to their "strategic role" as an anti-Iran bulwark.

@ politicus

Where is the likeliest place in Africa for homosexuality to be legalised? Intuition tells me that of those that are pink on your map, Senegal, Botswana, Namibia might be good candidates, but that is based on nothing very substantial

[Sol]

It should be noted that my intention in starting this thread actually was to talk about the unpleasantness of the Jammeh government with a fairly accessible issue. I don't know much about Jammeh except for that he is a fairly repressive leader, so I was sort of curious about what the forum would have to say about the role of Islam in West African politics.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I've always found the Gamnia a curious oddity - being a repressive sliver enclosed entirely within the free and democratic Senegal. I've never read up on it though.

[politicus]

Where is the likeliest place in Africa for homosexuality to be legalised? Intuition tells me that of those that are pink on your map, Senegal, Botswana, Namibia might be good candidates, but that is based on nothing very substantial

Mauritius, where homosexuality isn't actually illegal per se, but sodomy is would be number one. Apart from that the Seychelles where it is legal for women and they even have a couple of anti-discrimination laws (employment, ban on hate speech), but it is illegal for men - it has been proposed in their parliament.

On the mainland probably one of the other countries where the ban is a legal relict from colonial times. Of those, there are three where it is both legal for women and rarely enforced for men: Sierra Leone, Botswana, Namibia, but some prominent Sierra Leone politicians are against legalization.

Botswana and Namibia are very influenced by South Africa and Namibian gay couples can get married in SA and get it recognized in Namibia (despite homosexuality being illegal..). SWAPO is in total control and maybe they will at some point say its stupid to have it on the books. If the opposition ever wins in Botswana they would do it. They have a ban on employment discrimination of gays.

Senegal is Muslim and well-organized, so I  don't see it happening there anytime soon. The only Muslim countries where it is legal are the ones where the state is too weak to regulate much anyway.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

LOL@that map. Quite special.... and revealing.

[politicus]

LOL@that map. Quite special.... and revealing.

Yeah, one obvious thing is that British colonies all had bans on homosexuality whereas French and Belgian didn't.

So lots of ex French/Belgian colonies where homosexuality is so alien a concept that no one has thought of banning it and/or with a very low level of government capacity to regulate things.

[Peter the Lefty]

Still a FF on balance for leaving the Commonwealth.

STFU.  Please.

[Brittain33]

Although I'm not one of those awful "homosexuality is a Western obsession!" pricks, I find it odd that the western media, liberals soapboxers and politicians find it easy to ignore every other human rights violation beyond these anti-gay laws. How often did you read condemnation of Yoweri Musenevi, for instance, for his numerous crimes against the people; before the anti-homosexuality laws flared up? And of course, the reality of Western countries turning a blind eye to the state enforced homophobia of the GCC due to their "strategic role" as an anti-Iran bulwark.

You're correct that this represents an American or western filter. I see a couple of reasons for this. First, the influence of American conservatives driving these changes in Africa starting with the change of laws in Uganda. Second, that it's so often portrayed in Africa as a backlash to massive changes in policy toward gays in the west.

Coming against several thousand years of no one caring about persecution of gays in other countries, all the way through the beginning of the Obama administration, I think it's a welcome change.

[Cubby]

I'm worried the nations that were formerly French will start banning sodomy now, because its not like they're all socially liberal. I think I read somewhere recently that Chad was considering a ban.

Niger has the World's highest birth rate (50 births per 1,000 women every year or 7 children per woman in her lifetime.) The last thing they need is even more births due to people becoming fearful of being outed and arrested.