Is the USA still a democratic republic?

[Murica!]

If you think it's something that isn't above make sure to write it in.


Conclusion so far is that people think we are very much like the Roman Republic.

[Deus Naturae]

The US political system is basically an arena where countless special interest groups battle it out to grab as many goodies as they can from the the horde of Federal loot plundered from taxpayers. Some leverage votes (democracy), others leverage cash (oligarchy).

[Murica!]

The US political system is basically an arena where countless special interest groups battle it out to grab as many goodies as they can from the the horde of Federal loot plundered from taxpayers. Some leverage votes (democracy), others leverage cash (oligarchy).

Wouldn't leveraging money be a plutocracy?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yes, not that that precludes it also being one or more of the other options as well.

[Murica!]

Yes, not that that precludes it also being one or more of the other options as well.

So you think of it like the Roman Republic if I understood you correctly.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

It never was.

[Deus Naturae]

The US political system is basically an arena where countless special interest groups battle it out to grab as many goodies as they can from the the horde of Federal loot plundered from taxpayers. Some leverage votes (democracy), others leverage cash (oligarchy).

Wouldn't leveraging money be a plutocracy?

True. Thinking about it some more, I'd say the US is a combination of democracy, plutocracy, and oligarchy. The former two account for the majority of legislation and programs, but the latter also exists when you consider the minority of policy manufactured by the technocratic elite of policy wonks, think tankers, etc.

[Murica!]

The US political system is basically an arena where countless special interest groups battle it out to grab as many goodies as they can from the the horde of Federal loot plundered from taxpayers. Some leverage votes (democracy), others leverage cash (oligarchy).

Wouldn't leveraging money be a plutocracy?

True. Thinking about it some more, I'd say the US is a combination of democracy, plutocracy, and oligarchy. The former two account for the majority of legislation and programs, but the latter also exists when you consider the minority of policy manufactured by the technocratic elite of policy wonks, think tankers, etc.

So the Roman Republic pretty much. Now what scares me with that comparison is who's gonna be the barbarians from the north to get rid of the USA.

[Cassius]

The United States is extremely dissimilar to the Roman Republic. Extremely dissimilar.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

It's an elected oilgarchy.

[politicus]

The US political system is basically an arena where countless special interest groups battle it out to grab as many goodies as they can from the the horde of Federal loot plundered from taxpayers. Some leverage votes (democracy), others leverage cash (oligarchy).

Wouldn't leveraging money be a plutocracy?

True. Thinking about it some more, I'd say the US is a combination of democracy, plutocracy, and oligarchy. The former two account for the majority of legislation and programs, but the latter also exists when you consider the minority of policy manufactured by the technocratic elite of policy wonks, think tankers, etc.

So the Roman Republic pretty much. Now what scares me with that comparison is who's gonna be the barbarians from the north to get rid of the USA.

[angus]

who's gonna be the barbarians from the north to get rid of the USA.

From the East.  Ours will come from the East.  It will be a crushing indebtedness to them, rather than gunpowder (which was provided by the East many centuries ago), which defeats us.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

It's very clearly an oligarchy.

[pbrower2a]

The United States is now a plutocratic oligarchy with remnants of democracy.  Dictatorship? Dictatorship requires the formal strongman in charge, whether a despotic President or parliamentary equivalent, a military chief, a party boss with unaccountable power, or a stooge who does anything that some oligarchic elite tells him to do. Elections either do not happen or are shams. It also requires a secret police that can do anything to anyone.

Barack Obama is not a despot; he is certainly not a military chief who achieved power in a coup; he does not wield unaccountable power;  he has some independence. Some state governors have established a model for what the Koch syndicate wants short of murder... in 2017 some of us might want to find another country.

[Murica!]

The US political system is basically an arena where countless special interest groups battle it out to grab as many goodies as they can from the the horde of Federal loot plundered from taxpayers. Some leverage votes (democracy), others leverage cash (oligarchy).

Wouldn't leveraging money be a plutocracy?

True. Thinking about it some more, I'd say the US is a combination of democracy, plutocracy, and oligarchy. The former two account for the majority of legislation and programs, but the latter also exists when you consider the minority of policy manufactured by the technocratic elite of policy wonks, think tankers, etc.

So the Roman Republic pretty much. Now what scares me with that comparison is who's gonna be the barbarians from the north to get rid of the USA.

Now, that makes sense.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

who's gonna be the barbarians from the north to get rid of the USA.

From the East.  Ours will come from the East.  It will be a crushing indebtedness to them, rather than gunpowder (which was provided by the East many centuries ago), which defeats us.

Nah.  Europe is a toothless tiger these days and their economy is in worse shape than ours.  It's not the East we need to worry about, it's the West.  China is who we owe the money to these days, not Europe.  </US-centric definition of East and West>

[Mordecai]

> implying it ever was a democratic republic

I'd say that it was at the height of democracy for about ten years between 1965 and 1975, and has been declining ever since.

who's gonna be the barbarians from the north to get rid of the USA.

From the East.  Ours will come from the East.  It will be a crushing indebtedness to them, rather than gunpowder (which was provided by the East many centuries ago), which defeats us.

Lol, let me guess, you're one of those End the Fed types, eh? Good luck with that.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Is this still a dumb question?

a. Yes
b. Of course
c. Concern trolls are concerned

[ingemann]

It's as much or even moreso a democratic republic as in the past.

As for the whole barbarians at the gates, it's really weird that people worry about a still developing state, which face one of the mnost extreme and radical demographic transition seen in world history. China have enough to worry about with their population pyramid.

[user12345]

Is this still a dumb question?

a. Yes
b. Of course
c. Concern trolls are concerned

[angus]

it's really weird that people worry about a still developing state

No one worries about it.  To the extent that the comparison to Rome is valid, the whole point is precisely that we don't worry about it.  We just keep getting fatter and assume that others are worrying about it for us.  (And no we're not looking to debate whether the comparison is valid.  The presupposition being as it is, you have to find parallels.  It's rather like saying that if Jerry Seinfeld is Hank Hill, then obviously Kramer is Boomhauer.  The only thing left to argue about is whether Elaine is Bill or Dale.  I'd say Dale, and George is Bill, but I know that there are those on this forum who disagree.  Whether or not all 90s comedies followed the same formula is another debate.  Here, we're just assuming that they did and all we're doing is filling in the blanks.)

[Deus Naturae]

^Why would Kramer be Boomhauer? Dale seems like a more apt comparison.

[Türkisblau]

It's still a Democratic Republic because at any point the American people can change their representatives, however I think that too many people are content with the way things are to actually get up off their asses to do anything to change things.

[IceSpear]

It's still a Democratic Republic because at any point the American people can change their representatives, however I think that too many people are content with the way things are to actually get up off their asses to do anything to change things.

This. It's still obviously a Democratic Republic, the voters are just dumb, uninformed, and lazy. Or in the case of 75% of the country, don't even vote at all.

[angus]

^Why would Kramer be Boomhauer? Dale seems like a more apt comparison.

Kramer is the sage.  Well, that's what I always perceived.  Boomhauer is also the sage.  Nothing elucidates quite like a Boomhauer soliloquy.  Dale is, of course, the conspiracy theorist, and I suppose that you can find some of the conspiracy theorist in Kramer.  Maybe the juxtaposition isn't perfect.