"Holiday tree"

[The Arizonan]

Why does the word "holiday tree" even exist when there's already a word to describe a decorated pine tree? Phrases like "holiday season" and "happy holidays" are acceptable because at least they serve a purpose and you can use them when you are trying to be inclusive.

It's called a Christmas tree. You don't call a menorah "holiday candles" or a "holiday candelabra".

Language is getting ridiculous these days.

[7,052,770]

Because sometimes Jews put up a tree to be fun and festive but not to celebrate Christmas?

[Deus Naturae]

Who says this?

[Comrade Funk]

Because sometimes Jews put up a tree to be fun and festive but not to celebrate Christmas?

[Paul Kemp]

Good thread.

[Oak Hills]

Who says this?

I've never heard anyone say it.  I think it's a strawman.

[The Arizonan]

Who says this?

I've never heard anyone say it.  I think it's a strawman.

Governor Chafee (D-RI) actually called it a "holiday tree".

[fivex]

I've never heard anyone say this that wasn't complaining about it.

[SPC]

Because sometimes Jews put up a tree to be fun and festive but not to celebrate Christmas?

There is already a word for that

[Deus Naturae]

Who says this?

I've never heard anyone say it.  I think it's a strawman.

Governor Chafee (D-RI) actually called it a "holiday tree".

Ok. Why do you care? Even leaving aside the issue of non-Christians, what kind of person is that obsessive about language? In my family (which includes a number of practicing Christians) we mostly just call it "the tree." It really doesn't matter.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Of all the things to be upset about...

[memphis]

Because Target wants to sell more flimsy bric a brac, and the non-Christian minority represents their best opportunity for growth. If you have a problem with this, take it up with your capitalist overlords.

[Türkisblau]

I honestly don't think anyone should be getting up in arms about this, but at the same time I think that it's over the top to censor out Christmas like that.

I think Christmas is at the point in this country where even non-Christians take part, and if people really want to say "Holiday tree" because of that, I don't see that much of a problem with it.

[The Arizonan]

Who says this?

I've never heard anyone say it.  I think it's a strawman.

Governor Chafee (D-RI) actually called it a "holiday tree".

Ok. Why do you care? Even leaving aside the issue of non-Christians, what kind of person is that obsessive about language? In my family (which includes a number of practicing Christians) we mostly just call it "the tree." It really doesn't matter.

I don't really have an issue with the word itself. A Christmas tree should be called a Christmas tree or just a tree if you don't want to deal with pesky modifiers at all. It's just that I'm kind of tired of "Christmas" being treated like some kind of cuss word.

On another note, Governor Chafee was unfairly singled out by Bill O'Reilly. He should've went after Lincoln Almond and Donald Carcieri when they were in office and called it a "holiday tree" if he wanted to be consistent, but I guess that Bill O'Reilly only goes after liberals and Democrats.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Who says this?

I've never heard anyone say it.  I think it's a strawman.

Governor Chafee (D-RI) actually called it a "holiday tree".

Pretty sure we're all well aware of Lincoln Chafee's party affiliation and state of residency. You didn't need to remind us.

And who cares? Surely you don't actually think this is something to get up in arms about. Back to Fox News with you.

[Indy Texas]

Because sometimes Jews put up a tree to be fun and festive but not to celebrate Christmas?

If you're going to appropriate another ethno-religious group's tradition, then either do it or don't do it. I don't care what religion you are and whether or not you celebrate Christmas. If you're putting an evergreen tree in your house and putting lights and decorations on it in December, you have just put up a Christmas tree. Sorry. Deal with it.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

I've never heard anyone say this that wasn't complaining about it.

[traininthedistance]

Because sometimes Jews put up a tree to be fun and festive but not to celebrate Christmas?

If you're going to appropriate another ethno-religious group's tradition, then either do it or don't do it. I don't care what religion you are and whether or not you celebrate Christmas. If you're putting an evergreen tree in your house and putting lights and decorations on it in December, you have just put up a Christmas tree. Sorry. Deal with it.

Funny you talk about appropriating traditions given that the Christmas tree arguably started as a pagan Germanic thing, not a Christian one.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Arguably?  More like factually.  It represented renewal and rebirth at the time of winter solstice.

Easter is literally named after the goddess of spring and the easter bunny is a celebration of fertility.  Ishtar, which sounds remarkably like easter, was the Babylonian goddess of fertility.  

All the patron saints are just replacements for local pagan deities that offered various protections to the various. Communities.

Arizonan...you should realize your Christmas tree has nothing to do with Christ or his birth.  You are celebrating ancient pagan traditions overlain with Christian mythology.

Nowadays people put their modern traditions and beliefs to practice, but keep the holiday tree.  Christians stole it from the pagans...now the atheists are taking it from the Christians.

[Joe Republic]

Because sometimes Jews put up a tree to be fun and festive but not to celebrate Christmas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQe7DGD2ov0

[Indy Texas]

Arguably?  More like factually.  It represented renewal and rebirth at the time of winter solstice.

Easter is literally named after the goddess of spring and the easter bunny is a celebration of fertility.  Ishtar, which sounds remarkably like easter, was the Babylonian goddess of fertility.  

All the patron saints are just replacements for local pagan deities that offered various protections to the various. Communities.

Arizonan...you should realize your Christmas tree has nothing to do with Christ or his birth.  You are celebrating ancient pagan traditions overlain with Christian mythology.

Nowadays people put their modern traditions and beliefs to practice, but keep the holiday tree.  Christians stole it from the pagans...now the atheists are taking it from the Christians.

BFD. A lot of Jewish traditions are outgrowths of polytheistic Middle Eastern religions. And Islam has a very conspicuous one in the form of the Ka'aba. But that doesn't mean we can all just erect a big black box somewhere and pretend it has nothing to do with Islam.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Arguably?  More like factually.  It represented renewal and rebirth at the time of winter solstice.

Easter is literally named after the goddess of spring and the easter bunny is a celebration of fertility.  Ishtar, which sounds remarkably like easter, was the Babylonian goddess of fertility. 

All the patron saints are just replacements for local pagan deities that offered various protections to the various. Communities.

Arizonan...you should realize your Christmas tree has nothing to do with Christ or his birth.  You are celebrating ancient pagan traditions overlain with Christian mythology.

Nowadays people put their modern traditions and beliefs to practice, but keep the holiday tree.  Christians stole it from the pagans...now the atheists are taking it from the Christians.

BFD. A lot of Jewish traditions are outgrowths of polytheistic Middle Eastern religions. And Islam has a very conspicuous one in the form of the Ka'aba. But that doesn't mean we can all just erect a big black box somewhere and pretend it has nothing to do with Islam.

Actually you could.

[ingemann]

Because sometimes Jews put up a tree to be fun and festive but not to celebrate Christmas?

If you're going to appropriate another ethno-religious group's tradition, then either do it or don't do it. I don't care what religion you are and whether or not you celebrate Christmas. If you're putting an evergreen tree in your house and putting lights and decorations on it in December, you have just put up a Christmas tree. Sorry. Deal with it.

Funny you talk about appropriating traditions given that the Christmas tree arguably started as a pagan Germanic thing, not a Christian one.

I wasn't aware that 16th century Palatinate was pagan, because that's where the Christmas tree originated and it spread from there to the rest of Germany in the late 18th century with the rise of romantism and from there it spread to most other Protestant states in the 19th century including USA.

Germanic pagans did have trees they found holy, but these was the oak and ash, the conifers on the other hand have always been connected with Christ in northern Europe, because when they have been used to represent the easter palm leaves north of the Alps. 

So not the Christmas tree have nothing to do with paganism.

[Simfan34]

Arguably?  More like factually.  It represented renewal and rebirth at the time of winter solstice.

Easter is literally named after the goddess of spring and the easter bunny is a celebration of fertility.  Ishtar, which sounds remarkably like easter, was the Babylonian goddess of fertility. 

All the patron saints are just replacements for local pagan deities that offered various protections to the various. Communities.

Arizonan...you should realize your Christmas tree has nothing to do with Christ or his birth.  You are celebrating ancient pagan traditions overlain with Christian mythology.

Nowadays people put their modern traditions and beliefs to practice, but keep the holiday tree.  Christians stole it from the pagans...now the atheists are taking it from the Christians.

BFD. A lot of Jewish traditions are outgrowths of polytheistic Middle Eastern religions. And Islam has a very conspicuous one in the form of the Ka'aba. But that doesn't mean we can all just erect a big black box somewhere and pretend it has nothing to do with Islam.

Haha, good point. Now let me sing my holiday carols while I spin my holiday top and eat my holiday pancakes.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Okay I don't really have any opinion on the actual subject of this thread but there are two assertions in Snowguy's post, other than the one that ingemann covered, that I want to address.

1. While it's more or less indisputably true that the word 'Easter' derives from the name of a pagan Anglo-Saxon goddess (even Bede admits this), Sumerian isn't even an Indo-European language, so the 'Ishtar' connection is almost certainly a false cognate. It's also worth noting that this is only true of a few of the Germanic languages--other languages have words for Easter related to Pesach.
2. That is most certainly not true of 'all' or even most patron saints. It's notably truer in some places (e.g. Ireland, where that was done to a significant chunk of the Druidic pantheon) than in others (e.g. the Mediterranean basin, which has from a very early date had more than enough legit Christian historical or semi-historical figures to go around.)