December 2014 At-Large Senate Election: Winner/Loser
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  December 2014 At-Large Senate Election: Winner/Loser
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Poll
Question: What party was the winner/loser of the senate election
#1
Labor/Federalist
 
#2
Labor/TPP
 
#3
Federalist/Labor
 
#4
Federalist/TPP
 
#5
TPP/Labor
 
#6
TPP/Federalist
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 38

Author Topic: December 2014 At-Large Senate Election: Winner/Loser  (Read 9116 times)
Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2014, 04:43:48 PM »

The Federalists have been a one man show for a long time now. I feel bad for Yankee. He's really running the party alone. By the time I finally went back to The Party, which had been calling for me beyond the hills for months, it was literally the two of us communicating and no one else. Losing Hagrid was pretty much their end, but losing tmth(activity wise at least) and ZuWo hurt very much too.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2014, 06:05:02 PM »
« Edited: December 16, 2014, 06:13:20 PM by New Canadaland »

Shouldn't the results have been fairly predictable? Right-wing turnout was low and thus with 6 candidates for 5 seats (write-ins not included) it was likely that the more radical of the Federalist candidates failed to get in and all the others did.
It was close though; had JCL been more moderate I think they would have gotten that second seat.
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Flake
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2014, 08:57:19 PM »

Shouldn't the results have been fairly predictable? Right-wing turnout was low and thus with 6 candidates for 5 seats (write-ins not included) it was likely that the more radical of the Federalist candidates failed to get in and all the others did.
It was close though; had JCL been more moderate I think they would have gotten that second seat.

The problem for the Federalists is what you outlined, "Right wing turnout was low". This is the biggest problem for the current Federalist Party, it's unfortunate that Yankee has to run his party by himself, it must be extremely difficult, and if they had an active core, they could have easily gotten two seats.



GriffGraph® showed that the Federalist Party had a turnout of 51%, this is on a fantasy election game on an American-styled political website, that number should be closer to 80%. Labor did fine, 75% of their members voted, The People's Party had a phenomenal turnout, over 95%, and those are the reasons TPP and Labor won two seats each. TPP has very active, high profile people, Labor has the Griffin turnout machine, and the reason the left (if we had to characterize TPP it would be more towards the left of the political spectrum) has seven seats in the Atlasian senate, and it's because of the huge obstacles of inactivity and the nobody stepping up in the Federalist Party.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2014, 10:28:03 PM »

What's all this rubbish about TPP being a "left-wing" party?
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Flake
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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2014, 10:42:06 PM »

What's all this rubbish about TPP being a "left-wing" party?

As I said, if you have to characterize TPP, it's more of a leftist party than a right wing party.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2014, 10:44:03 PM »

What's all this rubbish about TPP being a "left-wing" party?

As I said, if you have to characterize TPP, it's more of a leftist party than a right wing party.

It's a centrist party. Easy as that.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2014, 11:28:33 PM »
« Edited: December 16, 2014, 11:34:47 PM by Lowly Griff »

What's all this rubbish about TPP being a "left-wing" party?

As I said, if you have to characterize TPP, it's more of a leftist party than a right wing party.

It's a centrist party. Easy as that.

Actually...

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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2014, 11:31:06 PM »

Also, I'm flattered at all the commentary about my "turnout machine" and perceived involvement, but it's really just not the case. While I did contact a few close friends to vote who I thought might not otherwise do so and did try to run the numbers on the final day to see where things were, the real heavy-lifting was done by several others. Perhaps it'd be fair to say that the machine I built in the past was and is still well-oiled and operational, but it takes the work of others now to keep it that way.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2014, 11:32:02 PM »

I think you have my S score and my E score mixed up, but huh. Interesting.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2014, 11:34:35 PM »

I think you have my S score and my E score mixed up, but huh. Interesting.

That I do - fixed.
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Flake
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« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2014, 11:43:22 PM »

Also, I'm flattered at all the commentary about my "turnout machine" and perceived involvement, but it's really just not the case. While I did contact a few close friends to vote who I thought might not otherwise do so and did try to run the numbers on the final day to see where things were, the real heavy-lifting was done by several others. Perhaps it'd be fair to say that the machine I built in the past was and is still well-oiled and operational, but it takes the work of others now to keep it that way.

That is exactly what I was trying to say, I really didn't make that clear. Tongue
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2014, 11:45:57 PM »

I'm also proud to see The People continue to turnout in drove after all these months. One of the things I did during its first incarnation was ensure we had to as close to 100% turnout as possible, and clearly those in charge now have continued The Party under that goal. Praise be to The People now and forever more.

Amen
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ZuWo
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« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2014, 11:14:27 AM »

TPP and Labor won, the Federalists and the D-Rs clearly lost.

In my view the two right-of-center parties are obviously disorganized. The Federalist Party is a mere one-man show. If no one else besides Yankee is willing to lift a finger the party won't be able to survive in the long run.
The level of disorganization among the D-Rs appears even worse but I'm not sure that party ever had a clear power structure in the first place.

That's probably because the D-Rs have less than a quarter of the membership of the Federalist Party...

The TPP is also quite a small party but yet they managed to get two people elected by running their best guys (that wasn't always the case, see the most recent NE Senate election) and due to excellent GOTV efforts.
I may be wrong, but the fact that no one ran to replace Deus until the announcement of two last-minute write-in-campaigns gave off the impression of a party in disarray. It's an uphill battle to win an at-large Senate seat for a small party like yours but I believe it could have been possible considering the bench of qualified candidates you have to offer.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2014, 11:16:52 AM »

TPP and Labor won, the Federalists and the D-Rs clearly lost.

In my view the two right-of-center parties are obviously disorganized. The Federalist Party is a mere one-man show. If no one else besides Yankee is willing to lift a finger the party won't be able to survive in the long run.
The level of disorganization among the D-Rs appears even worse but I'm not sure that party ever had a clear power structure in the first place.

That's probably because the D-Rs have less than a quarter of the membership of the Federalist Party...

The TPP is also quite a small party but yet they managed to get two people elected by running their best guys (that wasn't always the case, see the most recent NE Senate election) and due to excellent GOTV efforts.
I may be wrong, but the fact that no one ran to replace Deus until the announcement of two last-minute write-in-campaigns gave off the impression of a party in disarray. It's an uphill battle to win an at-large Senate seat for a small party like yours but I believe it could have been possible considering the bench of qualified candidates you have to offer.

TPP is also literally a "hall of fame party".

I don't disagree with the idea that we should've had better GOTV, but to say our party is in disarray is just silly and over-dramatic.
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bore
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« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2014, 11:23:04 AM »

TPP also when it comes to turnout benefits from the fact that it's a relatively new party, and so its members are more likely to be active and not need a pm to vote.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2014, 03:17:55 PM »

What's all this rubbish about TPP being a "left-wing" party?

As I said, if you have to characterize TPP, it's more of a leftist party than a right wing party.

It's a centrist party. Easy as that.

Actually...



Who's this other green dot next to Simfan?
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Anti Democrat Democrat Club
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« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2014, 03:29:18 PM »

What's all this rubbish about TPP being a "left-wing" party?

As I said, if you have to characterize TPP, it's more of a leftist party than a right wing party.

It's a centrist party. Easy as that.

Actually...



Who's this other green dot next to Simfan?

I'm guessing rpryor.
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rpryor03
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« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2014, 03:38:03 PM »

Most likely me.
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« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2014, 03:57:42 PM »


Checks out
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Oakvale
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« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2014, 04:34:38 PM »

To be fair it's not like the political matrix has a lot of relevance in an Atlasian context. Our platform is fairly centrist (if liberal), which is what counts. Likewise Labor's platform is probably (or at least last I checked) farther left than the PM score would indicate. Do the Feds actually have a platform?
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2014, 07:49:45 PM »

The Federalists have been a one man show for a long time now. I feel bad for Yankee. He's really running the party alone. By the time I finally went back to The Party, which had been calling for me beyond the hills for months, it was literally the two of us communicating and no one else. Losing Hagrid was pretty much their end, but losing tmth(activity wise at least) and ZuWo hurt very much too.

Not that this will endear me to anyone (that's why it's so great to be an Independent Tongue), but my feeling is that it has always sort of been a one-man show. How well the Federalist Party does just comes down to a combination of the amount of time the "one man" can put in, how frustrated the "one man" becomes, and the raw skill of the "one man." This person hasn't always been me (but it was for a long time), and there have been a few successes here and there that really were rooted in fantastic group efforts, but at the end of the day, getting everyone on the same page and mustering up individuals to actually help is hard. The one man is vital; it all comes down to him. I'm not saying Yankee is ineffectual, but the cards he has been dealt IRL have made it difficult for him to achieve success for the party. Maybe it's time for new leadership, but they've reached the stage where most of the people who could turn things around are too frustrated to do anything about it.

If we're airing everything now, there were sort of four reasons why I left.

1. I was tired of being the "one man."

Even after stepping away from the leadership, it was hard for me to get away from the whole "if you want something done right, do it yourself" thing. Maybe others were capable, but I always felt like the only time the party ever had big successes was when I played a role and got the pieces moving. Sure, we have individuals who've been very successful, but that's no thanks to the "Federalist machine." Lumine and Duke won in spite of their party-ID, not because of it. They won thanks to their own merits.

And if I'm the guy who actually can make it work, why should I attach myself to an organization that only stresses me out and pisses me off? I have good GOTV skills. I can make things happen. If I want to run for office, I'll be fine.

2. It did stress me out.

When you're the one man, it's difficult to separate the party from yourself (or, at least, it was for me). So every criticism of the party was like a wound that only riled me up. I remember the night Griffin posted his bloody coat hanger attack ad. I shouldn't have let it get to me, but f-ck was I pissed. It's not healthy, and I don't wanna deal with this sh-t if I don't have to.

3. The party relies on the support of a few bigoted imbeciles that I often had to molly coddle and sell my soul to for any type of win.

I'm not going to name names because everyone knows what I mean. I'm just tired of supporting these people and trying to balance their personalities, especially when many of them oppose rights for people who are not straight, like me. I don't want my name in with theirs.

4. My views are actually evolving.

I've was hesitant to switch to the green avatar because I do still identify as anti-Democratic, but, again, I'm not the far-right social conservative that people once thought I was. I don't want to tow the party line and I don't want to sit in embarrassed silence as right-wing extremists in the same party as me pass ridiculously misogynistic legislation in the Mideast. I'm done with it.




Anyway, this turned into a giant rant, but leaving the party in silence obviously left some things unanswered. It sucks to see the Federalist Party crumble, but it's a terrible beast of a thing. Being on the right in this game sucks, but being a member of the organized right is even worse. There are many reasons for its lack of success, and I don't think they'll ever be addressed. So if it's going to be a laughing stock election after election, with only Yankee coming out to defend it in another one of his incomprehensible grandpa speeches, I just can't deal. And whether it's the Whig Party, the Federalist Party, or some other big-tent right-wing group, the same problems will always exist. The first step is getting away from even needing "one man" and instead have it actually be a team, but that just doesn't happen.

So all I can say is good luck. When you run people who are decent, I may even vote for ya. Sorry to be so blunt here, but it honestly is kind of personal for me.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2014, 01:27:37 AM »

It endears you to me, because now I can speak publically without releasing private information you would have preferred be kept private. Tongue

To be perfectly honest, I never felt any attachement to the Federalist Party and only became interested in leading it in late 2013 (Tmth running gave me a few months reprieve) when I feared it would collapse in my absence and what the lack of a Conservative PArty of some size would mean for the game. I was never that involved with the IB (though I approved of its purpose and thus why I picked it over the Whigs and stayed there until the merger), I opposed dissolution and the merger of the IB and the Whigs. Adding to that, there was always distance between us because I glory in a forcibly demolished Party you never belonged to and thus felt left out of that history whenever I brought it up (I would assume the grandpa speak refers to this). Likewise, this reaction on your part frustrated me, because I did it to inform and provide guidance and it seemed like such was being naively resisted on false assumptions (speaking largely of the Pacific here). We saw this play out in August of 2013. We also parted ways on Judicial Term Limits, which was probably one of my biggest issues at that point and the Federalists largely going in on that seemed mind boggling.

The one man is vital; it all comes down to him. I'm not saying Yankee is ineffectual, but the cards he has been dealt IRL have made it difficult for him to achieve success for the party. Maybe it's time for new leadership, but they've reached the stage where most of the people who could turn things around are too frustrated to do anything about it.
...

And whether it's the Whig Party, the Federalist Party, or some other big-tent right-wing group, the same problems will always exist.

The first step is getting away from even needing "one man" and instead have it actually be a team, but that just doesn't happen.


I did have a team in the RPP. I never would have succeeded in the RPP without Duke and Tmth and a number of other people. If the Federalists are just so that such can never eventually be the case here, then yes it will be time for me to step aside as well because I will never be that one man. I never was and never will be.

That said, the sentiment that things never change and will always be the same is a driving force behind the lack of participation by conservatives. After so many years, they conclude their is not chance of ever getting their way and then you have to fight gravity to get them to turn out at numbers just barely above par to stay even, more or less get ahead. This lack of turnout creates a self-fullfilling prophesy of failure that drives more disinterest and more lack of participation. You then have to fight gravy to get the necessary turnout.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2014, 01:28:36 AM »

To be fair it's not like the political matrix has a lot of relevance in an Atlasian context. Our platform is fairly centrist (if liberal), which is what counts. Likewise Labor's platform is probably (or at least last I checked) farther left than the PM score would indicate. Do the Feds actually have a platform?

We spent weeks working on amending it this past summer.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2014, 12:00:07 PM »

The RPP DID have a team in place, and that's the reason it was able to be successful for so long despite its shortcomings during Presidential elections. The same team led the party for nearly its entire existence, with the two major changes coming when I took it over and then Yankee. But neither of us were new members, and most of its members were active and played the game for a long time.

The Federalists don't compare to the RPP at all really. The RPP was home to me and only The Party has rivaled that home since. Most know I never felt at home in the Federalist Party, and that wasn't really the fault of anyone, it just lacked that intangible that is needed to feel like you belong. The Party has it. The RPP had it. The Federalists did not, and that was before the unfortunate events of my Presidency occurred.

I admire Yankee's persistence to build the Federalists into SOMETHING, but I don't feel like they are anything. There are too many competing interests, and I learned that early into my first term as President. I admittedly did not do all I could to "reach out" to the members, but when I did attempt it, I discovered that what one person wanted was what another couldn't stand, so I just did what I always do and just decided to do things how I wanted them done and let results speak for themselves. That almost lost me a primary to Naso, but I have no regrets with how I managed things.
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windjammer
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« Reply #49 on: December 26, 2014, 03:45:37 PM »

With some thought,
The current biggest problem for the right isn't because this forum is full of leftists, there are many "moderate" democrats who has a moderate economic score who could be attracted by a center-rightwinger, Cris, who would have defeated Bacon King if Riley or Chairmansanchez would have voted for him, just shows the right can win with some "infrastructure", even against the most popular leftists.

I believe they have currently 2 big problems:
- obviously the lack of "party" infrastructure
- and the other is the total lack of "unity" among the right. DRs and Feds seem to fight much more each other than with the leftwing parties (TPP and Labor). Unity among them is much more difficult between Feds and DR because obviously, socons like TJ and pro incest pro polygamy libertarians like Deus obviously don't get along, but I believe there is actually no effort of unity between the 2 factions. Some people would manage to appeal to both these factions. The right will never win unless the left would have totally been a disaster before (that explains the lumine victory) or unless they manage to unite the socons, the libertarians and the moderates.
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