The ruble is collapsing
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Author Topic: The ruble is collapsing  (Read 9199 times)
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2014, 08:24:21 AM »

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Further proof communism doesn't work

You are certainly not familiar with today's Russia.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2014, 08:27:41 AM »

Yet another Obama foreign policy success!

Yes, his conquest of Ukraine has been a roaring success. From the $5 billion spent to destabilize an elected government, whose opposition then removed an elected (albeit a rather awful) president in a manner illegal under Ukraine's constitution, to securing a job for Joe Biden's son on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.

Remember, imperialism is okay as long as it's led by the Washington-Brussels axis!

Indeed, which is why we need revolutionary socialism, which will unfailingly follow laws and abide by consitituons!

Revolutionary socialists can and should use bourgeois laws to our advantage when they either constrain the actions of the ruling class or can otherwise be used to further our cause. I don't care about the U.S. Constitution per se, but it can be a useful tool.

Gabe, have you ever done anything to actually advance your cause beside posting from your mom's basement?
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Simfan34
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« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2014, 01:30:02 PM »
« Edited: December 17, 2014, 01:35:07 PM by Governor Varavour »

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Further proof communism doesn't work

You are certainly not familiar with today's Russia.

Yes, this automatic equation of something Russia does with communism is rather grating.

What's happening is rather further proof that failure to diversify your economy is likely to result in consequences later, and that in the modern, globalized economy, a cavalier foreign policy that raises the ire of a bloc of nations that account for over half of world GDP is likewise bound to result in sanctions that do nothing to help your economy.

It's all about the timeframe. Putin can point out that the rouble has gained over 12% against the USD since this morning. Sanctions have kickstarted Russia's economy.  

It fell 19% today. The economy is going to contract even more sharply now. He can make no such claim unless he is to blatantly lie. But they can not mention it on the media, which is what they have been doing.

Hasn't he been doing this for quite a while ("no Russian soldiers in UA" and so forth). I was just making the point that it would be quite appropriate for Putin to frame the issue in such a manner ("What ruble collapse? The dollar has lost 12% since this morning.").

I see what you mean, and I suppose you're right. But that's a bit more obvious, isn't it, though?
Anyone with a computer can clearly see that the dollar hasn't fallen, while the location of Russian soldiers is something one has to rely on the word of others for. You can't prevent people from seeing prices are going up if they are going up.

However, Putin can say that the ruble is up 9% so far today, which it indeed is. But the uptick is in part due to exporters selling to meet their monthly tax obligations, and some traders said that "exporters were having their arms twisted to sell their foreign-currency earnings." Either way, the ruble has lost nearly half its value this year.
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🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
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« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2014, 01:40:52 PM »
« Edited: December 17, 2014, 01:43:27 PM by CrabCake »

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Further proof communism doesn't work

You are certainly not familiar with today's Russia.

I think he was being facetious.

As enjoyable a it is to see Putin's misadventures blow up in his face, I'm uneasy about whether this could lead to further instability in Russia. Remember, they are stocked to the gills with arms including nuclear gear. Let's hope outright anarchy doesn't break up, or that Putin isn't replaced by someone even nastier.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2014, 03:51:28 PM »

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Further proof communism doesn't work

You are certainly not familiar with today's Russia.

I think he was being facetious.

As enjoyable a it is to see Putin's misadventures blow up in his face, I'm uneasy about whether this could lead to further instability in Russia. Remember, they are stocked to the gills with arms including nuclear gear. Let's hope outright anarchy doesn't break up, or that Putin isn't replaced by someone even nastier.

This is what far too few people realize. The real opposition in Russia at this point isn't liberal businessmen; it's far more overt and reactionary nationalists than Putin.
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ag
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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2014, 08:45:33 PM »

This is what far too few people realize. The real opposition in Russia at this point isn't liberal businessmen; it's far more overt and reactionary nationalists than Putin.

I would understand, why it would worry me - I have friends and family there, and, actually, barely over a year ago was seriously considering moving back, at least for a while (there seemed to be a possibility of a great job - he, who does not exist but is merciful did interfere in time). Naturally, I have a reason to care about this. But why would anybody else here care? Ok, a bunch of idiots would come to power in Russia and start killing Russians even more efficiently than Putin does. Under the circumstances, are there still people around who would care about Russians killing Russians? Isn't that our national sport?
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Cory
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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2014, 10:04:00 PM »

Yes, his conquest of Ukraine has been a roaring success. From the $5 billion spent to destabilize an elected government, whose opposition then removed an elected (albeit a rather awful) president in a manner illegal under Ukraine's constitution, to securing a job for Joe Biden's son on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.

Remember, imperialism is okay as long as it's led by the Washington-Brussels axis!

God you're such a tool.

In the United States:

-Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."

The useful idiots to advance the Putintern's agenda. That's you.
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Murica!
whyshouldigiveyoumyname?
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« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2014, 10:29:51 PM »

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Further proof communism doesn't work

You are certainly not familiar with today's Russia.

I think he was being facetious.

As enjoyable a it is to see Putin's misadventures blow up in his face, I'm uneasy about whether this could lead to further instability in Russia. Remember, they are stocked to the gills with arms including nuclear gear. Let's hope outright anarchy doesn't break up, or that Putin isn't replaced by someone even nastier.

This is what far too few people realize. The real opposition in Russia at this point isn't liberal businessmen; it's far more overt and reactionary nationalists than Putin.
As someone who is Russian, this is incredibly true.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2014, 01:24:47 PM »

Good!
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ingemann
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2014, 05:01:45 PM »

Yes, his conquest of Ukraine has been a roaring success. From the $5 billion spent to destabilize an elected government, whose opposition then removed an elected (albeit a rather awful) president in a manner illegal under Ukraine's constitution, to securing a job for Joe Biden's son on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.

Remember, imperialism is okay as long as it's led by the Washington-Brussels axis!

God you're such a tool.
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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2014, 05:41:54 PM »

Yet another Obama foreign policy success!

Yes, his conquest of Ukraine has been a roaring success. From the $5 billion spent to destabilize an elected government, whose opposition then removed an elected (albeit a rather awful) president in a manner illegal under Ukraine's constitution, to securing a job for Joe Biden's son on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.

Remember, imperialism is okay as long as it's led by the Washington-Brussels axis!
Keep protesting on your computer. The rest of the world doesn't want to hear another white teenager whining.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2014, 06:20:34 PM »

Yes, his conquest of Ukraine has been a roaring success. From the $5 billion spent to destabilize an elected government, whose opposition then removed an elected (albeit a rather awful) president in a manner illegal under Ukraine's constitution, to securing a job for Joe Biden's son on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.

Remember, imperialism is okay as long as it's led by the Washington-Brussels axis!

God you're such a tool.

In the United States:

-Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."

The useful idiots to advance the Putintern's agenda. That's you.

Russia is far weaker than you think it is.
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Illuminati Blood Drinker
phwezer
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« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2014, 06:55:23 PM »

Yes, his conquest of Ukraine has been a roaring success. From the $5 billion spent to destabilize an elected government, whose opposition then removed an elected (albeit a rather awful) president in a manner illegal under Ukraine's constitution, to securing a job for Joe Biden's son on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.

Remember, imperialism is okay as long as it's led by the Washington-Brussels axis!

God you're such a tool.

In the United States:

-Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."

The useful idiots to advance the Putintern's agenda. That's you.

Russia is far weaker than you think it is.
I'm sure the Ukrainians agree with that statement.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
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« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2014, 08:57:41 PM »

Yes, his conquest of Ukraine has been a roaring success. From the $5 billion spent to destabilize an elected government, whose opposition then removed an elected (albeit a rather awful) president in a manner illegal under Ukraine's constitution, to securing a job for Joe Biden's son on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.

Remember, imperialism is okay as long as it's led by the Washington-Brussels axis!

God you're such a tool.

In the United States:

-Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."

The useful idiots to advance the Putintern's agenda. That's you.

Russia is far weaker than you think it is.
I'm sure the Ukrainians agree with that statement.

Guatemala could smash Belize in a war. Clearly Guatemala is a force to be reckoned with.
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Illuminati Blood Drinker
phwezer
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« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2014, 09:05:11 PM »

Yes, his conquest of Ukraine has been a roaring success. From the $5 billion spent to destabilize an elected government, whose opposition then removed an elected (albeit a rather awful) president in a manner illegal under Ukraine's constitution, to securing a job for Joe Biden's son on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company.

Remember, imperialism is okay as long as it's led by the Washington-Brussels axis!

God you're such a tool.

In the United States:

-Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."

The useful idiots to advance the Putintern's agenda. That's you.

Russia is far weaker than you think it is.
I'm sure the Ukrainians agree with that statement.

Guatemala could smash Belize in a war. Clearly Guatemala is a force to be reckoned with.
And China would probably beat India in a war, therefore India is a weak power not worth dealing with.

See, I can draw retarded parallels to the Ukraine conflict too.
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Beezer
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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2014, 06:04:45 AM »

China is now supporting Russia in its attempts to avoid a catastrophe.

Two Chinese ministers offered support for Russia as President Vladimir Putin seeks to shore up the ruble without depleting foreign-exchange reserves.

China will provide help if needed and is confident Russia can overcome its economic difficulties, Foreign Minister Wang Yi was cited as saying in Bangkok in a Dec. 20 report by Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV. Commerce Minister Gao Hucheng said expanding a currency swap between the two nations and making increased use of yuan for bilateral trade would have the greatest impact in aiding Russia, according to the broadcaster.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-22/china-offers-russia-help-with-suggestion-of-wider-currency-swap.html


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ag
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« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2014, 05:08:08 PM »

The questions is, whether the Russians decide to inflate out of trouble. If they do (and indications are there) further devaluation is inevitable - and there is nothing the Chinese can (or would want to) do about that.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2014, 10:55:03 PM »

The questions is, whether the Russians decide to inflate out of trouble. If they do (and indications are there) further devaluation is inevitable - and there is nothing the Chinese can (or would want to) do about that.

This seems like the most likely outcome: Putin's committed to his military adventures and he can't afford to cut back on social spending + he won't attempt to raise revenue from his crony oligarchs. That seems like the recipe for printing money.
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ag
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2014, 11:08:52 PM »

The questions is, whether the Russians decide to inflate out of trouble. If they do (and indications are there) further devaluation is inevitable - and there is nothing the Chinese can (or would want to) do about that.

This seems like the most likely outcome: Putin's committed to his military adventures and he can't afford to cut back on social spending + he won't attempt to raise revenue from his crony oligarchs. That seems like the recipe for printing money.

Well, there are oligarchs and oligarchs. The holdovers from Yeltsin regime (and there are still a few) are taxable. It is his own buddies that are off limits.

But, yeah, if I had to bet, I´d bet he inflates.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2015, 02:22:49 PM »

In general I wouldn't mind it, but this is a problem for our local tourism economy:

In recent years (the last 10 or so), the better-off Russian middle-class increasingly went to Austrian ski areas during winter and they spend a lot, unlike the regular German or Dutch guests. Russian guests often like luxury, buy lots of bling-bling and check in at expensive hotels such as the Kempinski in Kitzbühel.

Now with the sanctions from the EU and the falling ruble, the Russian middle-class gets squeezed and bookings for this winter are down by about 50-70% among Russians.

Together with the fact that we still have virtually no snow on the mountains for skiing, this winter season is going to be crappy. The only thing that can still save it would be a massive snow dump in the next weeks and more traditional German/Dutch guests than usual, to offset the Russian loss in guests.

Not as bad as it looked like after all:

Today (the traditional arrival date for Russian tourists at the Salzburg airport, ahead of the Orthodox Christmas), a ton of jets from Russia came in.

But down 25% compared with last year (which is not as bad as the tourism managers predicted).

http://salzburg.orf.at/news/stories/2687417

The Russian losses are compensated with more German (and even Turkish) tourists coming this year.

We also got a big snow dump the last days with another 1-2 feet underway in the next 3 days.

So, how's that saying ? "The soup is not eaten as hot as it is cooked."

Wink
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