Recall Amendment (Passed)

[TNF]

Seconding the motion.

[Senator Cris]

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So I assume that in federal recalls there should not be a vote on the replacement?

[bore]

Offering an Amendment:

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[bore]

Senators have 36 hours to object to bore's amendment

[Senator Cris]

What is the purpose of your amendment?

[TNF]

Is Class B an at-large seat, bore?

[Senator Cris]

Is Class B an at-large seat, bore?

Yes.

[bore]

Yeah, class B is at large.

Basically the purpose of this amendment is to stop someone with the views of JCL or Deus or TNF (if he was an at large senator) from being recalled because their views are unpopular with the majority, as opposed to losing the support of the people who elected them.

[TNF]

Amendment is friendly.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

So it would apply to only the President/Vice President and regional Senators? There's an equity issue here - if one class of Senators is to be held to this account and not the other? or is it only the President and and Vice President... if that's the case, then it should be made clear.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So it would apply to only the President/Vice President and regional Senators? There's an equity issue here - if one class of Senators is to be held to this account and not the other? or is it only the President and and Vice President... if that's the case, then it should be made clear.

I sympathize with the concern, but the problem here is with the At-Large seats and the way they are elected. Deus, Libertas (back in the day), JCL represented chunks of the electorate and the popular election method that is at least somewhat proportional would provide someone to represent but at the same time, the majority would be hostile to said representation. Therefore there is at the same time the unfairness of treating one class different from other, there is also the problem that it cannot be fairly implemented without risking unfair treatment of this group by denying them an access the present voting system allots.

One should also remember that the two Senate clases are meant to serve as substitutes for a bicameral legislature and thus not only vast differences in constituency size between the two but also other differences are to be expected. A recall works well in a regional election, how do you recall someone who represents 20% of the electorate. By definition, the ideologues are always disasdvantaged be they left or right, but most of all the right in this situation.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

So it would apply to only the President/Vice President and regional Senators? There's an equity issue here - if one class of Senators is to be held to this account and not the other? or is it only the President and and Vice President... if that's the case, then it should be made clear.

I sympathize with the concern, but the problem here is with the At-Large seats and the way they are elected. Deus, Libertas (back in the day), JCL represented chunks of the electorate and the popular election method that is at least somewhat proportional would provide someone to represent but at the same time, the majority would be hostile to said representation. Therefore there is at the same time the unfairness of treating one class different from other, there is also the problem that it cannot be fairly implemented without risking unfair treatment of this group by denying them an access the present voting system allots.

One should also remember that the two Senate clases are meant to serve as substitutes for a bicameral legislature and thus not only vast differences in constituency size between the two but also other differences are to be expected. A recall works well in a regional election, how do you recall someone who represents 20% of the electorate. By definition, the ideologues are always disasdvantaged be they left or right, but most of all the right in this situation.

Alright... let's just do this.

[bore]

Bore's amendment is adopted, I'll open a final vote very soon, provided there are no objections


And yeah, I agree almost entirely with Yankee here, it's not ideal but the only way to make a recall fair for at large senators would be to require 80% of the electorate, which is so high a number as to be pointless.

[windjammer]

This is an improvement, my biggest concern with the at large elections is resolved.

However, I will still vote against this amendment for these reasons:
- I like representative democracy. We're elected for a period of 4 month, if the people believes we're "incompetent" or whatever reason they can have, they just have to wait for the next elections. Recall elections will only make the life of the senators even more difficult.
-The last recall recently, the recall of Midwest Govenor Lebron, had not been made really by Midwesterners. It has been made by a group of persons who absolutely wanted him to go down, and they're outside of the MW. So this amendment will likely not improve the relations between the representatives of the people and the people, it will just create a new way of plotting.

[Cranberry]

I will support this bill, the most prominent points of critique have been resolved, so

Alright... let's just do this.

[TNF]

Motion for a final vote.

[Cranberry]

Motion for a final vote.

Motion seconded

[bore]

Senators a final vote is now open on this amendment, please vote aye nay or abstain

[windjammer]

Nay

[Cranberry]

Aye

[Senator Cris]

Aye

[SWE]

Aye

[bore]

Aye

[TNF]

Aye

[Lief 🗽]

Nay. I oppose recall elections, and as the esteemed Senator from the Mideast pointed out, recent experience with recall elections in this country should sour us all on the prospect of more of these things.