Clash of Kings Sequel? (Just a few ideas, nothing serious yet)

[Lumine]

Hello!

While I have been happy to participate in the recent "The New Order" and "God, Gold and Glory" games, I have refrained from attempting to start another game myself due to how busy I was and because after running two long games once can feel rather tired. That said, the other day Mr. X asked me about the potential for a sequel to "Clash of Kings" and I suddenly felt very interested about that idea.

For obvious reasons my priority in the forum goes to my role as President of Atlasia, but given that I am not running to another term I may have the time to actually run another game at some point in February, March or April. Thus, I am opening this thread to see the potential interest (so I get an idea of how many players we might have) and hear about ideas or suggestions regarding gameplay or the theme/scenario (so I can do the proper research).

Gameplay is something I have to consider carefully (for example, reducing the role of assassins and faceless men), but for the time being here are the basic ideas for scenarios:

-A Touch of Summer: Set in 321 AL (twenty years after the events of the "Clash of Kings" game) and right after the death of Lord Protector Daemon Blackfyre, it includes a series of conflicts dealing with religion, absolutism v. feudalism, new states in Essos and potentially a return of the White Walkers and the discovery of a new continent).

-Robert's Rebellion: Set in 282 AL and most likely right after the executions of Brandon and Rickard Stark, the Lords Paramount fight for or against the Iron Throne (with a couple of players like the Lannisters, the Greyjoys and the Tullys starting later into the game to provide a balance).

-The Lion and the Rose: This is Mr. X's idea, and I found it to be quite interesting. It basically involves (spoiler for those who haven't seen Season 4 or read Book 3) Tywin Lannister dying in the Purple Wedding instead of Joffrey, which means some sort of a Feast for Crows scenario with Joffrey having personal rule instead of a Tommen regency via Cersei.

Other than that we have less known scenarios like Aegon Targaryen's conquest of Westeros, the Dance of the Dragons, the Blackfyre Rebellion and Summerhall/War of the Ninepenny Kings, but I would like to hear opinions before thinking too much about this, xD

[Spamage]

I'd certainly be interested

Spreading greyscale and going crazy as Willas Tyrell was extremely fun last game

[Lumine]

I'd certainly be interested

Spreading greyscale and going crazy as Willas Tyrell was extremely fun last game

Excellent! Which scenario would you prefer?

[Spamage]

I'd certainly be interested

Spreading greyscale and going crazy as Willas Tyrell was extremely fun last game

Excellent! Which scenario would you prefer?

I think a Touch of Summer would be pretty cool.

The Reach would probably be divided into various factions (Hightower, Redwyne, even Tyrell supporters) while there is also the potential for civil conflict in the Stormlands (Steffon Baratheon should be the real heir). This, on top of those who want to see the Iron Throne returned to power, as well as the potential for White Walkers and an entirely new world is something I think would be a fun and exciting game (you could take more liberties with this one than the other one because of the last game)

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

My preference would be:

1. The Lion and the Rose would definitely be my top choice (this would give us more freedom to enter uncharted waters, while still retaining many of the great characters from the series)!

2. Robert's Rebellion

3. A Touch of Summer - I kind of feel like we already played out the best parts of this scenario and worry that it may just become an extended epilogue, especially with so few OTL characters presumably left at the start.  I also think making the White Walkers the chief threat will make it hard to make good antagonists of playable characters which was easily my favorite part of the previous game  Willas, Roose, Littlefinger, Danaerys, and arguably Tywin and Renly were excellent antagonists in the previous GoT game, imp.  Who can fill these shoes?  Especially if any villains would be blank slate characters.  That said, if most folks want to do this scenario, I'm game!

[Spamage]

I too am fine with any scenario

[Cranberry]

Oh great great great! I would absolutely love to once again be the Prince of Dorne! No, I'd love to play any role in any of those games, the last one was so much fun, it would be great to again have this!

I would most prefer A Touch of Summer, simply because we have the best possibilities here. We have so much we could play around with, while for example during Robert's Rebellion, we would be quite constrained, and didn't have that much to play with - it would basically come down to whichever site Tywin Lannister chooses, as the other alliances (Targaryen, Dorne and a bit Tyrell vs Robert, Ned, Jon Arryn and the Tullys) are pretty much set in stone. That Lion and Rose stuff would be great, but I have the fear that it would soon turn out like the first one - maybe what would help more there if you could include a bit more of direct "court" or "power play" without just sending your armies in. I don't really know how to explain this, but some things of such sorts would surely be interesting, to make that new one different from the first game.

[Talleyrand]

I'd personally like The Lion and the Rose, but keep in mind that Joffrey would not have personal rule, since a regent rules for his or her monarch until they reach their sixteenth name-day, so I would suggest  killing off both Cersei and Tywin for maximum chaos.

[Lumine]

Great to see there's interest on this!

I do believe Robert's Rebellion would be complicated since it would have to prevent Tywin and others in order to achieve some balance, which is something that would not happen with The Lion and the Rose (with mostly formed fields) and A Touch of Summer (that resembles a sandbox in most aspects).

I also think making the White Walkers the chief threat will make it hard to make good antagonists of playable characters which was easily my favorite part of the previous game   Willas, Roose, Littlefinger, Danaerys, and arguably Tywin and Renly were excellent antagonists in the previous GoT game, imp.  Who can fill these shoes?  Especially if any villains would be blank slate characters.  That said, if most folks want to do this scenario, I'm game!

That could be a problem, although on the other hand introducing new characters would help the players create their own personalities and engage in a different style of roleplay. And if my initial thoughts end up in the final game we will still have Tyrion, Myrcella, Trystane, Margaery, Sansa/Arya and Asha to take the mantle of the fallen schemers.

I'd personally like The Lion and the Rose, but keep in mind that Joffrey would not have personal rule, since a regent rules for his or her monarch until they reach their sixteenth name-day, so I would suggest  killing off both Cersei and Tywin for maximum chaos.

That could work, and it poses an interesting fight between Tyrion, Kevan, Mace and other powerful Lords.

Assuming the finalists are "A Touch of Summer" and "The Lion and the Rose", I think the playable characters might go like this, give or take a few:

The Lion and The Rose:

Main:

Joffrey Baratheon, King in the Iron Throne
Daenerys Targaryen, Queen of Meereen
Stannis Baratheon, King in the Narrow Sea
Roose Bolton, Warden of the North
Petyr Baelish, Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Trident
Tyrion Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock
Mace Tyrell, Lord of Highgarden
Doran Martell, Prince of Dorne
Spoiler: Aegon VI Targaryen, claimant to the Iron Throne

Optional:

Ser Brynden Tully, the Blackfish
Walder Frey, Lord of the Twins
Lord Varys, Master of Whisperers
Jon Snow, Brother of the Night's Watch (right after the battle of the Wall)
Wyman Manderly, Lord of White Harbor
Some of the Kingsmoot players (Victarion, Euron, Asha, etc)

A Touch of Summer:

Main:

Daemon II Blackfyre, King of the Dragonlands
Asha Greyjoy, Queen of the Iron Islands
Robb Stark, King in the North
Myrcella Arryn, Queen Consort of the Vale (King Robert incapacitated due to madness)
Tyrion Lannister, King of the Westerlands
Prince Steffon Baratheon, Lord Commander of the Commonwealth Army
Shireen Baratheon, Queen of the Stormlands and head of House Baratheon
Aerion Brightflame, New Valyrian Emperor
Antarys Tarquinia, Sealord of the Most Serene Republic of Braavos
Trystane Martell, Prince of Dorne

Optional:

Jason Mallister, Lord Regent of the Riverlands
Mathis Rowan, Lord Regent of the Reach
Mance Rayder the Old, King of the Wall
Utheros, High Septon of the Faith of the Seven
Arginel, unofficial leader of the Faith of Oldtown

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Great to see there's interest on this!

I do believe Robert's Rebellion would be complicated since it would have to prevent Tywin and others in order to achieve some balance, which is something that would not happen with The Lion and the Rose (with mostly formed fields) and A Touch of Summer (that resembles a sandbox in most aspects).

I also think making the White Walkers the chief threat will make it hard to make good antagonists of playable characters which was easily my favorite part of the previous game   Willas, Roose, Littlefinger, Danaerys, and arguably Tywin and Renly were excellent antagonists in the previous GoT game, imp.  Who can fill these shoes?  Especially if any villains would be blank slate characters.  That said, if most folks want to do this scenario, I'm game!

That could be a problem, although on the other hand introducing new characters would help the players create their own personalities and engage in a different style of roleplay. And if my initial thoughts end up in the final game we will still have Tyrion, Myrcella, Trystane, Margaery, Sansa/Arya and Asha to take the mantle of the fallen schemers.

I'd personally like The Lion and the Rose, but keep in mind that Joffrey would not have personal rule, since a regent rules for his or her monarch until they reach their sixteenth name-day, so I would suggest  killing off both Cersei and Tywin for maximum chaos.

That could work, and it poses an interesting fight between Tyrion, Kevan, Mace and other powerful Lords.

Assuming the finalists are "A Touch of Summer" and "The Lion and the Rose", I think the playable characters might go like this, give or take a few:

The Lion and The Rose:

Main:

Joffrey Baratheon, King in the Iron Throne
Daenerys Targaryen, Queen of Meereen
Stannis Baratheon, King in the Narrow Sea
Roose Bolton, Warden of the North
Petyr Baelish, Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Trident
Tyrion Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock
Mace Tyrell, Lord of Highgarden
Doran Martell, Prince of Dorne
Spoiler: Aegon VI Targaryen, claimant to the Iron Throne

Optional:

Ser Brynden Tully, the Blackfish
Walder Frey, Lord of the Twins
Lord Varys, Master of Whisperers
Jon Snow, Brother of the Night's Watch (right after the battle of the Wall)
Wyman Manderly, Lord of White Harbor
Some of the Kingsmoot players (Victarion, Euron, Asha, etc)

A Touch of Summer:

Main:

Daemon II Blackfyre, King of the Dragonlands
Asha Greyjoy, Queen of the Iron Islands
Robb Stark, King in the North
Myrcella Arryn, Queen Consort of the Vale (King Robert incapacitated due to madness)
Tyrion Lannister, King of the Westerlands
Prince Steffon Baratheon, Lord Commander of the Commonwealth Army
Shireen Baratheon, Queen of the Stormlands and head of House Baratheon
Aerion Brightflame, New Valyrian Emperor
Antarys Tarquinia, Sealord of the Most Serene Republic of Braavos
Trystane Martell, Prince of Dorne

Optional:

Jason Mallister, Lord Regent of the Riverlands
Mathis Rowan, Lord Regent of the Reach
Mance Rayder the Old, King of the Wall
Utheros, High Septon of the Faith of the Seven
Arginel, unofficial leader of the Faith of Oldtown

I kind of think the character list speaks for itself   All the loose ends got tied up in the previous game to the extent that (imo, at least) pretty much all of the best human antagonists from the series died in the previous game (except Walder Frey who'd almost certainly dead by the time Touch of Summer starts, was extremely loyal to GameRobb, and whose sons are hardly Big Bad material if the books are any indicator). 

While it is possible to create new antagonists, I think this would potentially remove some of the IC RPG element that (imo) helped make the last game so much fun.  I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I'd have had nearly as much fun playing as original characters with similar traits as I did while playing as Roose Bolton and Tywin Lannister.  Plus, characters like Yara/Asha, Arya, Tyrion, and Sansa probably can't be turned into antagonistic schemers without getting considerably OOC given the way the previous game ended. 

Pretty much all the still-living good guys got what they wanted and it was a pretty happily-ever after ending (and I don't mean that as a criticism of the previous game, just that I think that Touch of Summer would be far more feasible if Littlefinger, Ramsay, and Roose had survived the last turn).  If we do end up doing Touch of Summer, another possibility might be to retcon the developments that killed off the last high-profile series antagonists from the previous game.  This would basically mean retconing the Littlefinger-Bolton scheme that ended up getting both of them (along with Ramsay Snow) killed. 

The ripple effects this would be that GameRoose lives and becomes Robb's Hand as was about to happen before the aforementioned scheme was discovered (and possibly gets married in the years between the previous game and Touch of Summer, IDK since that was a bit up in the air when he died), GameRamsay lives and marries Fat Walda instead of getting slaughtered by the Freys at his wedding, Gamefinger lives and GameRobb ends up having to reluctantly keep him on as his Master of Coin, GameDoran is not poisoned at his son's wedding (although Lumine would have to decide whether he lives to see Touch of Summer given Doran's health), and the failed attack on White Harbor never happens.  I'd argue this would make a Touch of Summer a bit more feasible (though my vote would still go to The Lion and the Rose).  I don't know how comfortable Lumine would be with that, but it is something to consider and would help address the concerns I have about Touch of Summer.

@ Cranberry: Creating intrigue is easy, all you need to do is plot and scheme   To use some examples from the previous game, look at how much off-battlefield intrigue I created as GameTywin and GameRoose, Sjoyce created as GameFinger, and Spamage created as GameMace (although that didn't work out so well for him in the end ).

[Spamage]

We could also do something starting at the end of Dance with Dragons, though that would have tons of spoilers for those who have not read the book, though there are numerous characters I would love to play as, and scenarios at the end of the book I'd love to see dealt with by the players.

[Lumine]

Well, I had a bit of insomnia last night, so I started giving The Rose and the Lion a very serious look. To my shock, it seems it might actually be more feasible than A Touch of Summer. You see, my intention was to introduce several changes in the game rules and mechanics, and having a scenario known to players might actually be a good starting point to see if it works. Besides, if the end to the second game is more satisfactory, I could base A Touch of Summer on that.

Besides, if I introduce the planned changes to add more intrigue, we can get more varied characters like Olenna, Margaery, Illyrio, Selmy and Lady Stoneheart (yes, I want to include her, xD), so it seems I'm actually leaning towards that scenario.

I'll open a poll on the subject!