Would you support the extradition of Henry Kissenger to the ICC?
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  Would you support the extradition of Henry Kissenger to the ICC?		 « previous next »
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Author Topic: Would you support the extradition of Henry Kissenger to the ICC?  (Read 6577 times)
Sol
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« on: December 27, 2014, 07:21:30 PM »
Well?
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Libertarian Socialist Dem
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2014, 07:49:18 PM »
Yes absolutely, get him while he's still alive.
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BRTD
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2014, 08:47:47 PM »
Hell yes.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2014, 11:13:29 PM »
The ICC shouldn't even exist, so of course not.
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Vosem
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2014, 05:05:52 PM »
Lolno
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2014, 07:05:17 PM »
No, because I'm not a liberal hack?  How come he's a war criminal if Truman isn't?
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Cory
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2014, 03:10:49 PM »
Absolutely not.
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2014, 04:45:32 PM »
Quote from: Oldiesfreak1854 on December 29, 2014, 07:05:17 PM
No, because I'm not a liberal hack?  How come he's a war criminal if Truman isn't?

So send Truman's exhumed remains to the ICC with him?
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morgieb
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2014, 07:30:00 PM »
Grounds?
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Cory
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2014, 10:51:26 PM »

Not being naive about foreign policy. They just don't understand that we need people like him.
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Sol
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2015, 07:49:38 PM »
Quote from: Cory on December 31, 2014, 10:51:26 PM

Not being naive about foreign policy. They just don't understand that we need people like him.

Yeah, 'cause East Timor was such a threat to U.S. interests.
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Cory
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2015, 10:01:48 PM »
Quote from: Sol on January 01, 2015, 07:49:38 PM
Yeah, 'cause East Timor was such a threat to U.S. interests.

There is more then East Timor in Kissinger's record. Don't cherry pick an incident and build a career spanning narrative around it. Detente, the Opening of China, Shuttle Diplomacy in the Yom Kippur War to name a few.

Don't be silly. Foreign policy is more complicated then good guys and bad guys.
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Maistre
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2015, 10:19:13 PM »
Quote from: Cory on December 31, 2014, 10:51:26 PM

Not being naive about foreign policy. They just don't understand that we need people like him.

^^^
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2015, 11:42:47 PM »
yes in principle, though if he's in extremely poor physical condition and/or showing signs of dementia, there's no point.  he is 91.
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Sol
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2015, 12:52:42 AM »
Quote from: Cory on January 01, 2015, 10:01:48 PM
Quote from: Sol on January 01, 2015, 07:49:38 PM
Yeah, 'cause East Timor was such a threat to U.S. interests.

There is more then East Timor in Kissinger's record. Don't cherry pick an incident and build a career spanning narrative around it. Detente, the Opening of China, Shuttle Diplomacy in the Yom Kippur War to name a few.

Don't be silly. Foreign policy is more complicated then good guys and bad guys.

The opening of China was built directly on Bangladeshi lives. All completely unnecessary too--he could have opened contact with China thru Romania.
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Cory
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2015, 02:32:06 AM »
Quote from: Sol on January 02, 2015, 12:52:42 AM
The opening of China was built directly on Bangladeshi lives. All completely unnecessary too--he could have opened contact with China thru Romania.

Go on/extrapolate.....

So you think Chauchescu could operate as a serious go-between for Nixon and Mao?
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politicus
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2015, 04:14:25 AM »
« Edited: January 02, 2015, 04:37:53 AM by politicus »
Quote from: Cory on January 01, 2015, 10:01:48 PM
Quote from: Sol on January 01, 2015, 07:49:38 PM
Yeah, 'cause East Timor was such a threat to U.S. interests.

There is more then East Timor in Kissinger's record. Don't cherry pick an incident and build a career spanning narrative around it. Detente, the Opening of China, Shuttle Diplomacy in the Yom Kippur War to name a few.

Don't be silly. Foreign policy is more complicated then good guys and bad guys.

If Kissinger were to be extradited to the ICC it would be on the basis of specifc crimes and not on an evaluation of his entire career/time in office and whether that was "beneficial". So the cherry picking accusation is pointless.

If a guy committed a murder in the past it is not cherry picking to bring him to justice for that, even if he was generally a very productive and beneficial member of society (lets say an entrepreneur who founded a major company and created thousands of jobs).
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Cory
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2015, 12:41:39 AM »
Quote from: politicus on January 02, 2015, 04:14:25 AM
If Kissinger were to be extradited to the ICC it would be on the basis of specifc crimes and not on an evaluation of his entire career/time in office and whether that was "beneficial". So the cherry picking accusation is pointless.

If a guy committed a murder in the past it is not cherry picking to bring him to justice for that, even if he was generally a very productive and beneficial member of society (lets say an entrepreneur who founded a major company and created thousands of jobs).

So are you going to have literally every foreign policy maker for every country tried? Foreign policy isn't pretty. It's the most "dark" of the political arts because it is all about either national interest or ideological objectives.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2015, 06:06:05 AM »
Quote from: Cory on January 04, 2015, 12:41:39 AM
Quote from: politicus on January 02, 2015, 04:14:25 AM
If Kissinger were to be extradited to the ICC it would be on the basis of specifc crimes and not on an evaluation of his entire career/time in office and whether that was "beneficial". So the cherry picking accusation is pointless.

If a guy committed a murder in the past it is not cherry picking to bring him to justice for that, even if he was generally a very productive and beneficial member of society (lets say an entrepreneur who founded a major company and created thousands of jobs).

So are you going to have literally every foreign policy maker for every country tried? Foreign policy isn't pretty. It's the most "dark" of the political arts because it is all about either national interest or ideological objectives.

It's the most "dark" of the political arts because we allowed it to be so.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2015, 08:32:14 AM »
No.  Kissenger was involved in foreign affairs, he had absolutely nothing to do with the Interstate Commerce Commission, which was the ICC of note when he was in office.
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Cory
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2015, 07:31:12 PM »
Quote from: Antonio V on January 04, 2015, 06:06:05 AM
It's the most "dark" of the political arts because we allowed it to be so.

It's not that simple and you know it.
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politicus
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2015, 07:36:25 PM »
« Edited: January 04, 2015, 07:50:26 PM by politicus »
Quote from: Cory on January 04, 2015, 12:41:39 AM
Quote from: politicus on January 02, 2015, 04:14:25 AM
If Kissinger were to be extradited to the ICC it would be on the basis of specifc crimes and not on an evaluation of his entire career/time in office and whether that was "beneficial". So the cherry picking accusation is pointless.

If a guy committed a murder in the past it is not cherry picking to bring him to justice for that, even if he was generally a very productive and beneficial member of society (lets say an entrepreneur who founded a major company and created thousands of jobs).

So are you going to have literally every foreign policy maker for every country tried? Foreign policy isn't pretty. It's the most "dark" of the political arts because it is all about either national interest or ideological objectives.

No, I am just pointing out why your "no cherry picking" argument is idiotic when it comes to legal responsibility.

(besides: "every foreign policy maker for every country" is obvious hyperbole)
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BRTD
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2015, 09:17:28 PM »
While it was joking, Ernest actually made a frustrating but good point: The ICC only has jurisdiction over actions that occurred after its establishment in 2002.
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politicus
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2015, 10:08:07 PM »
Quote from: incredibly specific types of post-punk music on January 04, 2015, 09:17:28 PM
While it was joking, Ernest actually made a frustrating but good point: The ICC only has jurisdiction over actions that occurred after its establishment in 2002.

Yeah it is a purely academic exercise, but so is everything here.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2015, 10:52:15 PM »
It takes one hell of an argument to make me sympathize with politicus, good job for pulling that off, Cory.
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