Digimon thread (Top 11 favorite Adventure episodes)

[Antonio the Sixth]

I love Digimon Adventure. It's by far the show that had the biggest impact on my childhood, and I would have a hard time not ranking it as my personal favorite (on entirely subjective grounds, tbf). I could go on for hours about it. In short, it's definitely a kid's show and has lots of silly stuff (it can be pretty hard to get into it if you didn't watch it as a kid), but it has surprisingly fleshed-out characters and powerful drama, especially after the first dozen of episodes. The plot is pretty basic, but it still creates an atmosphere that works. It's really much more than what it looks on the surface. To be honest, it saddens me a lot to see that this show had so little success in the West, especially since it got overshadowed by that soulless, worthless merchandise vehicle that is Pokemon. It at least deserves to be known.

So, yeah... as I said, I could go on for hours. I could write a full review of it if anyone's interested. However, I'd rather encourage you to check out Jesu Otaku's. I recently came across this and it woke up a lot of childhood memories, and that's what led me to make this thread. I'd like to know if there's anyone on the forum who enjoyed this show as well or had thoughts to share about it. I know Gabu was a fan (I'm probably one of the few who know where his username comes from!). Hopefully he's not the only one! I'd really love to discuss this with other people.

For those who would want to give it a try, a word of advice: don't watch the English version. If you're fortunate enough to be fluent in another language like Italian, German or Spanish, watch these versions, or otherwise watch the subbed Japanese version. You will enjoy better dialogues and a truly beautiful soundtrack, whereas the English version butchered both (I know firsthand, because those lazy French based their own version off the English one, whereas Italians used the Japanese source material).

Sorry if I'm wasting my time. All the "grown ups" may feel free to mock and sneer.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Yeah, I remember watching the show and playing the games when I was a kid. When I had a Playstation 1, the only game I had was Digimon Rumble Arena, which was like the children's version of Mortal Kombat/Street Fighter. I loved that game. Cool show.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Unlike everyone else I know who bemoan Digimon as a Pokemon wannabee, I actually think Adventure and Adventure 02 are both great series. That being said, looking back I'm a lot less sold on the egg evolutions. 3 and after, on the other hand....

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good to know I'm not alone! The funny thing is that, despite being as close as it gets to a fanboy, I know relatively little about the Digimon universe as a whole. I've only ever watched Adventure and 02. Until my wanderings on TV Tropes brought me there, I had no idea there were such things as Digimon manga and videogames, and didn't even know that series after 02 had been translated in the West. I really want to see Tamers now, since I hear some consider it even superior to Adventure.

Unlike everyone else I know who bemoan Digimon as a Pokemon wannabee, I actually think Adventure and Adventure 02 are both great series. That being said, looking back I'm a lot less sold on the egg evolutions. 3 and after, on the other hand....

Ugh, these dumbasses make me mad...

I liked both Adventure and 02, though the former more than the latter. 02's plot is a bit of a mess (kinda reminds me of seasons 5-6 of Doctor Who, if you will ), and its protagonist characters are pretty dull compared to Adventure's. On the other hand, it did a good job at stepping up the angst and creating tragic anti-villains (Oikawa's story was really a punch in the gut for me), something Adventure was largely devoid of. Overall, I'd say Adventure was great and 02 was pretty good.

[Mr. Smith]

Yeah, but the franchise suffers from Indiana Jones/ inverted Star Trek movie curse in that the even seasons always suck.

My favorite as a kid was Adventure, but Savers is hands down the best of them now.

Not Tamers, not Adventure, certainly as hell not Adventure 2 which wasn't even consistently written, and not Frontier which may as well be Digimon Adventure:  Dadaist Theme Park Edition given that the characters and storyline resemble that season...except without the partners

I tried to watch Digimon Fusion once, but it just didn't do it for me. And I've heard the sequel season is an absolute pit, and I refuse to see this "Adventure revival".

Yggdrasil being punched out, humanity and Digimon working to restore the colliding worlds...that's a good note to go on.

@Antonio: I didn't know you were a troper, I am too [albeit in far lesser quantities since discovering Atlas though]

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, but the franchise suffers from Indiana Jones/ inverted Star Trek movie curse in that the even seasons always suck.

Haha, that seems true. I've read that the two most beloved are Adventure and Tamers, while 02 and Frontier are a lot more criticized. I don't know how the most recent series have fared though. So I'm pretty glad to see you like Savers. That means I'll have even more things to watch if I find the time some day! I'll probably skip Frontier, since from what I've read it's universally despised.

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Why? I got so overjoyed when I heard they were going to make a sequel! Sure, it's very easy to screw up a sequel, but if it's done right, it could be fantastic. Seeing the spirit of Adventure be translated into a style more appropriate to a 20something audience sounds like a dream coming true to me. I think it's worth giving it a try.

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Oh no, I'm not a troper. I read TV Tropes a lot, but I've never made an account or contributed. I've been very tempted at some point, but I already waste too much of my time this way. I would lose myself if I ever joined.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Oh and BTW, who knew Breitbart could actually make sense?

[Mr. Smith]

Don't ask me about the more recent ones, I just said I stopped after Savers/Data Squad...after Fusion/Xros Wars went too far.

The thing about Savers vs. Tamers is simply which type of main antagonist and which approach is better, but both of them are the most dynamic and seemingly well thought out. (Contrast Adventure 02's numerous dropped points and clear disorganization after the Digimon Emperor, Contrast Frontier which seemingly stretched everything out beyond entertainment. And Contrast Adventure which seemed to just be a bunch of villain arcs forced in, all tied in by "Well X is more powerful than Y"...cue Taichi groaning)

If one prefers more ambiguities and moral exploration with lots of themes simply juggled at, and a villain that is completely alien and only destruction can be understood from it, then Tamers is the ticket.

If one prefers more straight up action, one overarching theme being explored and a solid conclusion, and a villain that is too human. A villain that lets hatred, greed and power lust drive him and will ably manipulate his way to the top. Because of that, it is through understanding that one realizes there is no hope. Savers is the one then.


Also another reason Adventure 02 sucks....Leomon actually lives! I mean what kind of sorcery is that?? 

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, I think I'll have to watch them by myself to tell which one I prefer. But what you say about Savers makes it sound really promising!

Yes, Adventure's story arcs are patched up together in a rather unsophisticated way. All we get to know is that there are evil digimon and that the children must destroy them to save the world. It's somewhat frustrating that there was no effort to tie them in an overarching plot (well, they tried to do that with Apokarimon being the source of all evil, but it was so quick and forced that it basically came out of nowhere). That said, I think it still works because villains never matter much in Adventure - they are mostly obstacles that provide the children with opportunities to discover something about themselves or confront their fears (and who are given a few, silly, creepy or frightening traits in order to make them interesting). I think that the writers decided to focus all their creativity on the protagonists, a choice which paid off considering how complex and interesting they made them. Still, it can be annoying.

In some way, Adventure 02 tried (but only partly succeeded) doing the opposite, by sidelining the heroes and crafting an elaborate plot featuring complex, morally ambiguous characters. Of course, the problem is that their plot turned out to be a convoluted mess that went everywhere and nowhere at the same time, abruptly switching its focus from one thing to another without any reason. And also, it's padded with fillers to a point it's nauseating. Probably about 2/3 of the episodes do absolutely nothing to advance the story (it might have been 1/3 in Adventure). From what I've heard, the series was rushed in, so that might explain why the writers didn't have time to polish their work. Still, what 02 did right, it did it right. Ken's character arc managed to top any character exploration done in Adventure, delving deeper than I ever would have expected into a child's psychology - "Genesis of Evil" is definitely one of the best episodes in the entire franchise. Also, despite all their flaws, I love the 4 final episodes for one simple reason: Yukio Oikawa. As I said, this guy's story - and its end - saddened me at a deeply personal level. No matter everything else, I can't dislike a series that had such an emotional grip on me.

[Adam Griffin]

Digimon was the sh!t. I was very much in love with it for several years, and it was by far the superior television show. I have to say, though: Pokemon was the better card game. I mainly collected Digimon cards (both the ones for the game and the generic trading cards) just for kicks and to try to find rare ones to resell. I also had several digivices, a D-terminal, plenty of action figures, and even this original bad boy which I still wish I knew where it was (and which I managed to get Monzaemon with!).

And yes, everyone is right here in that only the first two seasons were really good. Season 3 was where I began to lose interest - and I don't think it was because of my age - and I actually didn't finish watching the season (though I did skim through clips of it on YouTube not too long ago). I really thought it got stupid with the whole "there's a real world where Digimon is a card game but also real monsters!!" and "I'm going to co-digivolve with my digimon!". In Tamers' defense, though, there was a larger difference in the subtleties of the plot between Japanese and English dubs; the former was more mature and eerie.

[Mr. Smith]

WRONG!

Season 2 was absolute crap, have you all SERIOUSLY forgotten  how many threads were dropped? Have you forgotten how lazily each remotely interesting villain was shoddily "working for someone else" and who was that some else at the end? MYOTISMON. And how was he ACTUALLY defeated? By "hopes and dreams"

Also it's pretty lame when a major plot point is that of destroying "things with souls", when every other Digi Destined didn't need that question, they far well when villains were too far gone.

And then all the very stupid snarls regarding the crests, the Dark Ocean....ugh.


As for Season 3, it wasn't until I began re-exploring that I finished it, and it's a shame you didn't finish Griff....stopping before the Digital World was a huge mistake. But yeah,it's hard to deny it takes a bit to really get into. I dunno, Guilmon was enough.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Digimon was the sh!t. I was very much in love with it for several years, and it was by far the superior television show. I have to say, though: Pokemon was the better card game. I mainly collected Digimon cards (both the ones for the game and the generic trading cards) just for kicks and to try to find rare ones to resell. I also had several digivices, a D-terminal, plenty of action figures, and even this original bad boy which I still wish I knew where it was (and which I managed to get Monzaemon with!).

Oh, the trading cards! I was pretty good at collecting them back in the days, and they looked really nice (I never got into the gaming cards though, because I found their drawing style ugly). I had a few figures too: the ones who could "digivolve" transformers-style were pretty awesome. But yeah, on the whole merchandising side Pokemon was clearly the most skilled franchise.

WRONG!

Season 2 was absolute crap, have you all SERIOUSLY forgotten  how many threads were dropped? Have you forgotten how lazily each remotely interesting villain was shoddily "working for someone else" and who was that some else at the end? MYOTISMON. And how was he ACTUALLY defeated? By "hopes and dreams"

Also it's pretty lame when a major plot point is that of destroying "things with souls", when every other Digi Destined didn't need that question, they far well when villains were too far gone.

And then all the very stupid snarls regarding the crests, the Dark Ocean....ugh.

Haha, yeah I agree with all that. 02's plot was really all over the map. Still, maybe I tend to focus too much on the positive side, but as I said I was really swept by its more emotional/psychological moments. Again, especially those that revolve around Ken or Oikawa. Not sure if it's enough to make the series good as a whole, but it's enough for me personally to say I didn't regret watching it.


And yeah Griff, you're the first I see who doesn't like Tamers! I have to say I also found some elements of the premise bizarre (I heard about the whole "digimon is both a game and real" thing, and also the fact that the protagonist's digimon is basically a drawing that comes alive), but then again, Digimon's premise itself is silly, so I don't want to judge it based on that.

[Mr. Smith]

@Antonio: No worries, that's better than me, who gets way to focused on the negative.

That said, I could've forgiven it if it weren't for the ENDING, between Myotismon being the reveal after a perfectly good send-off (okay okay not entirely perfect, a crotch shot is a little bit crazy..nonetheless), the very defeat being really lame, some of the "dreams" used as an illusion did not paint the characters in a good light, and finally giving EVERYONE A DIGIMON?...Kinda takes away a lot. And the epilogue... good heavens the epilogue.

As for Tamers, it's an acquired taste and much of the meaning is missed the first time around. However it fleshes out the Digimon themselves much better, there's a lot more innocence from the main characters. And as for the dub, the dubbers were actually the least restrictive this time around. But once it gets going, it veers into Neon Genesis Evangelion/ Lovecraftian turf right where Leomon dies (And no that's not a spoiler, Leomon always freaking dies....not even Leomon expies are safe).

And glad you're considering Savers, given that many literally ran away from it because Agumon was re-used, drawn differently, and the main guy is a teenager that punches things and doesn't wear goggles...because what's a "leader" without the goggles


Concerning the cards,...I actually never collected them, just never knew where to find them. I did have one of those D-Arcs from Tamers though, but it never worked.

[Antonio the Sixth]

@Antonio: No worries, that's better than me, who gets way to focused on the negative.

That said, I could've forgiven it if it weren't for the ENDING, between Myotismon being the reveal after a perfectly good send-off (okay okay not entirely perfect, a crotch shot is a little bit crazy..nonetheless), the very defeat being really lame, some of the "dreams" used as an illusion did not paint the characters in a good light, and finally giving EVERYONE A DIGIMON?...Kinda takes away a lot. And the epilogue... good heavens the epilogue.

To be honest, I don't understand why people get so worked up about the ending. OK, it was far from the ending that the Adventure continuity deserved, but when I saw it it didn't strike me as the spit in the face that fans seemed to see. I kinda liked the idea of bringing back Myotismon - he was by far the best Adventure villain (granted, that's not saying much ) and had a pretty credible way of coming back (it's established that when a digimon is killed in the real world, their data/soul can's be reconfigured and just wanders around). I'm not necessarily sure it was carried out in the best possible way: MaloMyotismon comes across as a psychopathic brute, far from the sophisticated chessmaster Myotismon was in his glory days. Still, why not him? "Possession" of some kind was the only way to make of Oikawa the tragic figure he was (and which, to repeat myself, I think was the best thing in the series).

I agree that some of the characters' illusions were lame (poor Yolei... though she was a flat character anyway), but Cody, TK and Ken had pretty moving ones - it wasn't a total trainwreck. The way Myotismon was defeated was pretty cheesy, but I think it worked relatively well within Adventure's general spirit. It's not the first time an enemy is defeated through the Power of Love/Friendship/Hope/whatever. The ending of Adventure involved the kids literally reforming themselves after being decomposed into data through sheer willpower. And that was awesome (IMO). 02's ending wasn't that well-executed, but I still kinda liked it. It (pretty heavily) hammered out the idea that negative thinking can reinforce evil, whereas hope and dreams can defeat it. Sure, it should have felt a little less easy (but Digimon was never known for its long-winded and complex battles ).

As for the epilogue... yeah, that's a bit harder to defend. It seems the writers wanted to wrap up this continuity for good, in order to move on to something else. So they created this awkward "happy ever after" future where everyone gets a digimon. That was rushed and a bit silly, and the whole part with the digidestined as adults - with their ridiculous occupations and clone-like children - was really bad. I don't really care about the shipping controversies though. Yeah, Sora and Taichi shared more chemistry in Adventure, and yeah, her marrying Yamato comes completely out of the blue. But that doesn't make it implausible. How many people ended up marrying their childhood friend? I'm much angrier about what they did to Sora herself. Her dropping their tomboyish hobbies and style in favor of more "feminine" ones says a lot about the sexism of some writers (or possibly about the backwardness of Japanese societal norms, though I don't know enough to say). It was really frustrating, because Sora was actually my favorite character. But anyway, enough rambling.

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Yeah, I read that Tamers explored some pretty creepy and disturbing issues. Apparently it was done by the same guy who wrote Serial Experiments Laim... and Jesus, I read SEL's pages on TV Tropes and that was pretty traumatizing (those HOLES...). So I hope it's not that creepy. I could use some cosmic horror, but not too much. But I'm gettin really interested in it, I hope I'll be able to see it soon.

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Yeah, I guess I'll get to Savers after I'm done with Tamers. I just hope the leader is not a complete moron, that the thing I fear the most about future Digimon series. Taichi was a fantastic leader in Adventure: he could be impulsive, cocky and somewhat insensitive, but he was actually smart and competent when it mattered. He grew from his mistakes and became a real tactician by the show's end. Then... we got Davis/Daisuke. Oh God I hated this f**king moron. He almost ruined the series for me - thanks God there was more to it than the protagonists...

[Supersonic]

Yes! I loved Digimon back in the day - although whenever I mention it scorn is poured on me from Pokemon fans.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So, to keep this thread alive, would anyone be interested in a list of my favorite Adventure episodes?

[Antonio the Sixth]

So, to keep this thread alive, would anyone be interested in a list of my favorite Adventure episodes?

...guess not

[Mr. Smith]

If it doesn't include that episode where Izzy falls into a warp pit and looses all knowledge...then sure.

[Antonio the Sixth]

If it doesn't include that episode where Izzy falls into a warp pit and looses all knowledge...then sure.

You don't like it? I thought it was generally considered an above average episode. Very creepy, yes, but that's what makes it work. It's only #9 on my list though.

[Mr. Smith]

If it doesn't include that episode where Izzy falls into a warp pit and looses all knowledge...then sure.

You don't like it? I thought it was generally considered an above average episode. Very creepy, yes, but that's what makes it work. It's only #9 on my list though.

It's not creepy (the episode where Tai goes back home and we meet Kari, that episode was) it's just boring, rushed and forced. Demi Devimon is obnoxious as usual, the pocket dimension isn't explored again....and Vademon just wasn't a compelling antagonist. Ultimately it was just there to shove out another Ultimate form.

Handily the worst episode in the whole season (not the worst overall, that dishonor belongs to the epilogue of 02).

[Antonio the Sixth]

The worst, really? What about the 10 out of the 12 first episodes that were just boring filler and whose only point was getting a new digivolution (OK, there was some character development here and there, but not enough to make it interesting)?

Sure, some moments of it felt forced, but in a 20-minute anime episode that's bound to happen. And yeah, Vademon is an absurdly silly villain, but come on, he's far from the only one in Adventure (the preceding episode featured a giant egg with legs as the main antagonist, for God's sake!). As for the pocket dimension, yes, it was a mere plot device, and personally I see nothing wrong with that as long as the plot works. And I think it does work, at least to the extent that it carries a powerful message and some genuine drama. To be honest, even as an adult, I was pretty disturbed to see a brilliant boy like Izzy trun into a soulless zombie. And the message that comes out of it, that we shouldn't abandon our thirst to understand the world for the sake of comfort or simplicity - that, if we do that, we become less than human - really appeals to me.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So anyway, is anyone else interested? I plan to put some effort into it, so I'd rather know if I should bother.

[RR1997]

I hated this show. I'm sorry.

[Goldwater]

So anyway, is anyone else interested? I plan to put some effort into it, so I'd rather know if I should bother.

Yeah, I would be interested.

[Antonio the Sixth]

OK, two people who care is enough for me, let's do it!

So, these are my top 11 favorite Digimon Adventure episodes. Why top 11? Because I like to steal other people's catchphrases!


#11 - Forget About It!

Quite ironically, this is an episode that most people probably have forgotten about. It's right after Tai comes back from his brief escape in the real world, only to find the team in complete disarray. He first comes across TK and Tokomon, who explain to him what has been going on when he wasn't there (the team splitting up etc.). We are introduced to DemiDevimon, who has already begun playing his dirty tricks and succeeded in pulling TK away from Tokomon and convincing him that his brother Matt, who had left a few days before and never come back, doesn't love him.

This episode has no new digivolution, no high-stakes battle (the best we get is Patamon vs. DemiDevimon ), and doesn't really advance the plot apart from providing some exposition and introducing DemiDevimon. So what the hell is this doing in my top 11 list? There's one simple reason: this episode contains some of the most powerfully emotional scenes that I've seen in the entire series. This might sound really weird considering how the second half of the series is filled with profoundly moving moments, but still, there is something special that this episode does for me.

The setup isn't even that terrible, it's just TK missing his brother - nothing compared to the mourning for the loss of a Digimon friend that we'll see so often later in the show. But TK is a 6-year-old kid who has recently seen all his friends leave him, and now even his brother, and what would have been an inconvenience for someone else can become a genuine tragedy. It just feels real. The scene where Tokomon is narrating TK's waiting for his older brother - where we see his usual carefree attitude slowly turn into impatience, his impatience into concern, his concern into anxiety, and his anxiety into despair - was frigging heartbreaking even when I saw it as an adult.

Beyond that one scene, the psychology of the drama is really well-crafted. For one thing, even though DemiDevimon becomes a pain in the ass once we get used to his routine, he makes for a pretty interesting antagonist in his introductory episode. Again, the way he manipulates TK (though slightly forced out) still makes a lot of sense. He takes advantage of TK's traumatic emotional state to undermine his faith in his brother (which really is the pillar of his psychology), and, once he's gained a sway in him, he uses it to pull TK away from his only remaining friend, his Digimon partner. Sure, it might not look as impressive as when a villain tries to kill the heroes, but it's actually a pretty diabolical plan if you ask me. And it would have worked weren't it for Tai (who is probably the only one aside from Matt who could have snapped TK out of this confusion).

After Tai arrives, what happens next is rather predictable. DemiDevimon is unmasked, Patamon fights him and eventually defeats him, forcing him to retreat. So OK, this isn't a fantastic episode, but I really have a soft spot for the kind of psychological drama that it offers - especially since it allows us to see TK in a different light, and to realize that, as good as he might be at adapting to hostile conditions, he's still a little kid who needs the presence of his loved ones for his emotional stability. That's not really the typical Digimon awesomeness, but still something that's worth checking out.


#10 - The Piximon Cometh

Now, that's an episode everybody keeps in mind - so I will spare you the summary. What do I like about this episode? Well, there's the fact that Piximon is a lot of fun. He's a good-guy but can be rather mean-spirited, likes to teach hard lessons in even harder ways, looks cute but is also pretty clever, and provides for some good comedy when needed. But obviously this alone doesn't make an episode worthwhile.

The big thing about this episode is that it introduces what might be the single most important concept of the series (a few hints were dropped in the previous episodes, but this is when it gets real): in order to make their Digimon stronger and defeat the bad guys, the children need to improve themselves, to develop their qualities and become better persons. This point is really hammered in by this episode, in a way that's neither too subtle nor too anvilicious. It's obviously the cornerstone of Tai's experience in the cave (was it an hallucination or a sort of holodeck-like virtual reality? we'll never know), where he meets his younger self and understands the importance of not giving up and learning from mistakes. But it's also explicitly stated by Matt when he goes out with Izzy to search for their crests, in a rather poignant way (this is also a big defining moment for Matt's character, hinting to his low self-esteem that's going to play a big role later).

So what is there apart from that? Probably not that much. We see more of Etemon's antics, which are very much a love-it-or-hate-it affair (personally, I found him hilarious as a kid and still like it OK as an adult). We have a little fight scene at the end, which is fine. And we see the kids being essentially enslaved and toyed with by Piximon, which is funny initially but grows boring pretty fast. Still, the self-improvement aspect of it plays a critical role in my opinion, and really makes this episode stand out.


#9 - No Questions, Please

I'm really sorry MormDem, but that's where I'd rank that weird alien / pocket dimension / zombie / MegaKabuterimon episode. I honestly think this is a great idea, and while it's not always executed very well, it still gives us some memorable scenes and moments. I might be biased by the fact that I really like and agree with the "moral" of the story: it's an important message that I feel isn't often found in kid's shows. But that's exactly the sort of things we need to tell our kids! We need to tell them that it's great to be curious, that you shouldn't always opt for the comfort of your certainties but rather try to question the word around you. That's the sort of excellent (yet not Captain Obvious-y) morals that fit very well with the animation media.

So yeah, some moments are forced ("BOOM! Here's a giant dark pit! Wanna get out of it? Give up your curiosity!"). That's a shame, and they could easily have done it better if they cut the useless scatological interactions between Vademon and DemiDevimon. But the scenes that follow, when we see what Izzy looks like without his curiosity, do work really well. It really creeped me out as a child and still partly does. I especially like the bullsh*t lecture Vademon gives to Izzy about "finding your inner peace" and stuff like that. It almost sounds like a veiled critique of religious indoctrination. I have no idea if that's what the authors wanted to mean, but I really sensed some undertones about the dangers of getting caught up in a belief system that prohibits any sort of questioning. And finally, I love the scene where Pabumon blows bubbles with memories of Izzy in them. It might be pretty cheesy, but it worked on me.

Everything that happens after is also pretty forced and oddly paced, and the final digivolution/fight scene is largely forgettable. Maybe the writers tried to put too much emphasis on the morals that they forgot to tell an engaging story: I guess that's a fair criticism. Still, again, the fact that I'm completely on board with the morals made me enjoy this episode a lot.