Greek election - January 25th 2015

[Boston Bread]

Obviously Greece didn't get as good of a deal as West Germany in 1953. Half their debt cancelled! And for good reason - with the need to repair after the war and commies just to the east. What Tsipras demands is less generous than that.

[ingemann]

Obviously Greece didn't get as good of a deal as West Germany in 1953. Half their debt cancelled! And for good reason - with the need to repair after the war and commies just to the east. What Tsipras demands is less generous than that.

You know maybe we should burn Greece down to the ground, depopulate Greek Thrace and Macedonia, kill 10% of the population, sending the population of the north to refuge camps in southern Greece, split the rump up in two, push all the plunder most of the surviving industry and all Greek patents, increase the Greek debt several times, when we could maybe talk about it.

Greece is not in the position as FRG was in 1953, and the comparison is deeply dishonest and just serve as a excuse for Greece to continue the deeply irresponsable governance which have resulted in situation they are.

[Beezer]

Obviously Greece didn't get as good of a deal as West Germany in 1953. Half their debt cancelled! And for good reason - with the need to repair after the war and commies just to the east. What Tsipras demands is less generous than that.

Germany also possessed the foundations for a functioning economy back then. After a complete debt relief Greece would be burning through money they don't have from the word "go" with Tsipras' policies.

[Boston Bread]

The only way Greece can have a functional economy is if they focus on raising productivity instead of austerity, which can't happen if bankruptcy is constantly looming. Which is why I made the point that some debt cancellation should be on the table.

[justfollowingtheelections]

The only way Greece can have a functional economy is if they focus on raising productivity instead of austerity, which can't happen if bankruptcy is constantly looming. Which is why I made the point that some debt cancellation should be on the table.

Exactly.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

SYRIZA at 149 seats.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But who says that Greece's creditors are particularly invested in Greece having a functional economy?

[Beezer]

Looks like PASOK may come in last among the parties above the 3% threshold...

[Zanas]

We can now nearly safely assume that Anel will overcome Pasok. Hilarious.

[Clyde1998]

It looks like SYRIZA won't form a majority government then...

[Insula Dei]

SYRIZA at 149 seats.

Inching towards 150/151 at this rate, I'd say.

[Boston Bread]

Syriza's lead over ND is now over 8 points, 36.10-28.08
Edit: their lead is actually falling now. No majority it looks like. I don't know if that's good or bad.

[ingemann]

The only way Greece can have a functional economy is if they focus on raising productivity instead of austerity, which can't happen if bankruptcy is constantly looming. Which is why I made the point that some debt cancellation should be on the table.

Okay so explain to me how you plan to increase Greek productivity, and afterward you may also explain how the Syriza's policies will increase Greek productivity.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

lol PASOK

[jaichind]

SYRIZA  vote share now actually falling.  I guess enough of the Athens vote has come in.

[jaichind]

lol PASOK

Yes.  On the other hand, I think the result is reasonable given the circumstances.  I think if we add the vote shares of KIDISO PASOK and River they add up to be slightly higher than what PASOK got in June 2012.  And this is an election that was supposed to be polarized around SYRIZA and ND.

[jaichind]

Looking at the results so far it seems this election is mostly about DIMAR-Green and ANEL vote from June 2012 going to SYRIZA.  Other than that it is mostly small shifts of the same votes between various similar parties  (like PASOK ->  KIDISO and River)

[Meeker]

Tsipras may prefer 149/150 over 151/152. With the latter you give significant power to individual members of your party who are willing to make demands... plus there's the inability to blame other parties if things go poorly, as has been discussed previously.

[Boston Bread]

When it comes to reducing unemployment, new spending is justified. With 26% unemployment a large chunk of what should be their tax base is missing. In the long-term spending to boost private sector employment now reduces the debt in the long-term. The previous government hasn't done nearly enough to address that. SYRIZA is generally more trusted when it comes to addressing tax evasion and corruption than the traditional parties. They promise higher taxes and military cuts too so they're not promising money for jobs out of thin air.
Now, I'm not going to defend SYRIZA's platform because it goes further than what I want, but I'm supporting them as an agent of change.

[Insula Dei]

Tsipras may prefer 149/150 over 151/152. With the latter you give significant power to individual members of your party who are willing to make demands...

That's just as much the was in a minority government situation as with a 1 or 2-seat majority, tho.

[Famous Mortimer]

Tsipras may prefer 149/150 over 151/152. With the latter you give significant power to individual members of your party who are willing to make demands...

That's just as much the was in a minority government situation as with a 1 or 2-seat majority, tho.

Yeah, no offense to the OP but that's a dumb argument. That's like when people claim Anthony Kennedy is somehow more powerful than all the other Supreme Court judges. No, everyone's vote is going to be worth the same no matter what.

[Clyde1998]

SYRIZA's vote share is nudging up again...

[Meeker]

Tsipras may prefer 149/150 over 151/152. With the latter you give significant power to individual members of your party who are willing to make demands...

That's just as much the was in a minority government situation as with a 1 or 2-seat majority, tho.

Yeah, no offense to the OP but that's a dumb argument. That's like when people claim Anthony Kennedy is somehow more powerful than all the other Supreme Court judges. No, everyone's vote is going to be worth the same no matter what.

The Supreme Court analogy doesn't hold up - members of the court don't need to be responsive to voters, their party leaders, or anyone, to keep their power.

Insula Dei's point is fair though.

[ingemann]

When it comes to reducing unemployment, new spending is justified. With 26% unemployment a large chunk of what should be their tax base is missing. In the long-term spending to boost private sector employment now reduces the debt in the long-term. The previous government hasn't done nearly enough to address that. SYRIZA is generally more trusted when it comes to addressing tax evasion and corruption than the traditional parties. They promise higher taxes and military cuts too so they're not promising money for jobs out of thin air.
Now, I'm not going to defend SYRIZA's platform because it goes further than what I want, but I'm supporting them as an agent of change.

Okay how will you spend the money to increase productivity?

[Famous Mortimer]

Tsipras may prefer 149/150 over 151/152. With the latter you give significant power to individual members of your party who are willing to make demands...

That's just as much the was in a minority government situation as with a 1 or 2-seat majority, tho.

Yeah, no offense to the OP but that's a dumb argument. That's like when people claim Anthony Kennedy is somehow more powerful than all the other Supreme Court judges. No, everyone's vote is going to be worth the same no matter what.

The Supreme Court analogy doesn't hold up - members of the court don't need to be responsive to voters, their party leaders, or anyone, to keep their power.

Insula Dei's point is fair though.

It has nothing to do with the length of terms. We're talking about voting power. The influence of your vote does not change based on if you are a "swing voter."