Leelah Alcorn, transgender girl, kills self due to bigoted parents

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I have no idea what trans people go through both internally and externally, but it's obvious that the parents completely dismissed or didn't understand that their late adolescent child was experiencing real and severe emotional and psychological difficulties, and as such should never, ever be treated this way. Minimally, I hope that lesson comes out of this. This is a serious issue that needs to be treated as such. The parents reacted as though their child was misbehaving or something, and that's disturbing.

If they didn't believe that transgenderism is "real", then why wouldn't they think this was a phase or some other sort of rebellious behavior?

who gives a sh**t?

are you saying that if my child had appendicitis and i believed appendicitis wasn't "real" and therefore didn't bring them to the hospital, i would be totally innocent?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

you know what's actually a selfish act? putting your beliefs ahead of your child's well-being.

[7,052,770]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

you know what's actually a selfish act? putting your beliefs ahead of your child's well-being.

Why can't they both be pretty selfish?

While Alcorn's treatment by her parents was apparently horrible and inexcusable, that doesn't justify traumatizing an innocent truck driver like she did.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Can everybody stop being assholes plz?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

you know what's actually a selfish act? putting your beliefs ahead of your child's well-being.

Because of course they totally believed that they were pushing their child to suicide.

Feel free to believe as I do that the parents' belief here was wrong.  However, while they were wrong, I also believe they thought they were acting in the best interest of their child.

[afleitch]

I also believe they thought they were acting in the best interest of their child themselves.

[DemPGH]

The way that religion connects to the parents' view is easy. "God made you a boy, boys like girls, and that's the end of it." It's probably congruent with the Bible, however misguided in the present that it is.

I have no idea what trans people go through both internally and externally, but it's obvious that the parents completely dismissed or didn't understand that their late adolescent child was experiencing real and severe emotional and psychological difficulties, and as such should never, ever be treated this way. Minimally, I hope that lesson comes out of this. This is a serious issue that needs to be treated as such. The parents reacted as though their child was misbehaving or something, and that's disturbing.

If they didn't believe that transgenderism is "real", then why wouldn't they think this was a phase or some other sort of rebellious behavior?

who gives a sh**t?

are you saying that if my child had appendicitis and i believed appendicitis wasn't "real" and therefore didn't bring them to the hospital, i would be totally innocent?

Yeah, it would be like saying that a mental illness or something is because a person is possessed. So instead of seeking treatment, we'll seek an exorcism.

[politicus]

The way that religion connects to the parents' view is easy. "God made you a boy, boys like girls, and that's the end of it." It's probably congruent with the Bible, however misguided in the present that it is.

Possibly, but the Koran has similar assumptions and Iran is the country with the second highest amount of sex change operations (sometimes with public funding) and there it is seen as a way to avoid homosexual relations (better change the boy to a girl, who can then marry a man, than risk gay relations).

In my parents congregation there is a traditional Christian couple that view this in the same way and has supported their "daughter" (ie. self identified son) getting a sex change operation for this reason. So it is not that simple and given the strong anti-gay sentiment of many conservative Christians I  find this approach more understandable and better in line with a traditional interpretation of Scripture.

[ingemann]

The way that religion connects to the parents' view is easy. "God made you a boy, boys like girls, and that's the end of it." It's probably congruent with the Bible, however misguided in the present that it is.

who gives a sh**t?

Yeah, it would be like saying that a mental illness or something is because a person is possessed. So instead of seeking treatment, we'll seek an exorcism.

People do the best they can to raise children, sometimes they mistake, sometimes they make the mistake to be to kind and the kids grow up to be spoiled egoists, sometimes they're too harst and the kids grow up broken, sometimes they set up the wrong limit, sometimes they don't make enough limits, sometimes they do the right things. But the problem is that there's no manual for how to raise your child, and these parent may have done their best, they may also have made terrible mistakes. But right now they have lost a child, a child who blames them for his actions and who have traumatised some driver and they have to deal with that, while the parental versions of armchair generals rain hatred down on them through the media.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Are we really bringing in the idea that Leelah's selfishness might have traumatized the truck driver?  Jesus **** can you people just say that she skeeves you out and you want an excuse to say something bad about her?  Do you think you aren't completely transparent?  Just get it out and be honest and stop hiding your nastiness behind such a stupid and irrelevant argument in the overall conversation.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Jumping in front of a car or truck and directly putting a person at fault for a death is a pretty selfish act.

you know what's actually a selfish act? putting your beliefs ahead of your child's well-being.

Because of course they totally believed that they were pushing their child to suicide.

Feel free to believe as I do that the parents' belief here was wrong.  However, while they were wrong, I also believe they thought they were acting in the best interest of their child.

don't be ridiculous. anyone with half a brain should realise that pulling their child out of school  and isolating them from the outside world is not exactly great for their well-being.

[ingemann]

Are we really bringing in the idea that Leelah's selfishness might have traumatized the truck driver?  Jesus **** can you people just say that she skeeves you out and you want an excuse to say something bad about her?  Do you think you aren't completely transparent?  Just get it out and be honest and stop hiding your nastiness behind such a stupid and irrelevant argument in the overall conversation.

This is not a movie starring poor misunderstood Alcorn and her evil parents with the driver as some extra. These are all real people; Alcorn, her parents and the drive which had nothing to do with it, and killing a person even if you're without fault is highly traumatising, maybe especially if you're not at fault. He's not some extra or mook, he's a person who is the protagonist in his own life, who suddenly became part of the Alcorn family's mess.

And if someone here on this site is planning to commit suicide, first don't do it, second if you do it anyway, don't make other people part of it.

Of course that was not my point in my last post, but let's ignore the real point for some hissy fit over the fact that I see the driver not as tool to push the story forward, but as a real living breathing person.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Are we really bringing in the idea that Leelah's selfishness might have traumatized the truck driver?  Jesus **** can you people just say that she skeeves you out and you want an excuse to say something bad about her?  Do you think you aren't completely transparent?  Just get it out and be honest and stop hiding your nastiness behind such a stupid and irrelevant argument in the overall conversation.

Uh, I am trans and I think Leelah erred in terms of method, I just didn't want to bring it up until now because I think it distracts from the main point.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Are we really bringing in the idea that Leelah's selfishness might have traumatized the truck driver?  Jesus **** can you people just say that she skeeves you out and you want an excuse to say something bad about her?  Do you think you aren't completely transparent?  Just get it out and be honest and stop hiding your nastiness behind such a stupid and irrelevant argument in the overall conversation.

Uh, I am trans and I think Leelah erred in terms of method, I just didn't want to bring it up until now because I think it distracts from the main point.

Maybe so, but that is not what we are discussing here.  It's like discussing the rationale the Bush Administration used to invade Iraq and then bringing up how it boosted American morale back home.  Yea sure, but that's not the point and if you make a point to mention that you are clearly just doing it to further an already-standing opinion. Same thing here, where those people who are the first to bemoan the plight of the driver are also the first to display a prejudice or ignorance towards trans individuals.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Are we really bringing in the idea that Leelah's selfishness might have traumatized the truck driver?  Jesus **** can you people just say that she skeeves you out and you want an excuse to say something bad about her?  Do you think you aren't completely transparent?  Just get it out and be honest and stop hiding your nastiness behind such a stupid and irrelevant argument in the overall conversation.

Uh, I am trans and I think Leelah erred in terms of method, I just didn't want to bring it up until now because I think it distracts from the main point.

Maybe so, but that is not what we are discussing here.  It's like discussing the rationale the Bush Administration used to invade Iraq and then bringing up how it boosted American morale back home.  Yea sure, but that's not the point and if you make a point to mention that you are clearly just doing it to further an already-standing opinion. Same thing here, where those people who are the first to bemoan the plight of the driver are also the first to display a prejudice or ignorance towards trans individuals.

Yes, I agree, which is why I didn't bring this up before. It's just not the point.