Efficient Referenda Amendment (Failed)
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  Efficient Referenda Amendment (Failed)
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Author Topic: Efficient Referenda Amendment (Failed)  (Read 2032 times)
bore
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2015, 08:36:55 AM »

This has enough votes to pass, senators have 24 hours to change their votes
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bore
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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2015, 01:32:09 PM »

By a vote of 6-0-1 this amendment has passed the senate and is sent to the regions for ratification

Aye: Bore, Cranberry, TNF, Lief, Cris, Windjammer,

Abstain: Yankee

Not Voting: Polnut, Bacon King, SWE
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windjammer
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2015, 04:14:45 PM »

By a vote of 6-0-1 this amendment has passed the senate and is sent to the regions for ratification

Aye: Bore, Cranberry, TNF, Lief, Cris, Windjammer,

Abstain: Yankee

Not Voting: Polnut, Bacon King, SWE
It hasn't passed bore.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2015, 02:29:04 AM »

Aye
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bore
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« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2015, 05:56:07 PM »

Using the powers to suspend the rules granted to me by the senate rules, I hereby count Bacon King's vote as valid and declare this amendment to have passed 7-1
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windjammer
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« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2015, 06:01:25 PM »

I object.

Sorry, this is gross. Bacon King failed to vote in time. I don't see why we should stop "senate rules" for this case. If we start stoping the senate rules for this case, maybe we should have done that for JCL when he switched his votes to Nay during the protecting people from explosives amendment?

I sponsored this amendment, sadly it failed because 3 senators didn't vote in time, but that's the rules.
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bore
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« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2015, 06:12:44 PM »

Since senator windjammer has objected a vote is now open on whether to override the speaker, 1/3rd of the vote is needed to do so. Senators may vote aye nay or abstain
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windjammer
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« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2015, 06:17:42 PM »

Since senator windjammer has objected a vote is now open on whether to override the speaker, 1/3rd of the vote is needed to do so. Senators may vote aye nay or abstain
Just a question an Aye= overriding your decision? Or this is the Nay?
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bore
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« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2015, 06:29:26 PM »

Good point. Aye is overriding the speaker's decision
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SWE
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« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2015, 06:30:48 PM »

Nay
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windjammer
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« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2015, 06:35:29 PM »

Thank you Tongue.

So, Bore isn't malicious at all by doing that, but I prefer not this case to happen. If a bill dies because some senators forget to vote, this is sad but trying to suspend the rules is much worse. If the rules are suspended this time, it could be for many many other cases. For example, when JCL wished to switch his vote during the "protecting people from explosives amendment" after the deadline, if Bore suspends the rules for Efficient Referenda Amendment, I guess JCL could have requested to suspend the rules for his case too?

Rules can be boring, but if we start not respecting them, this will be chaos and there is nothing worse than chaos and anarchy. That's why I strongly urge the other senators to vote AYE on overriding Bore's actions as speaker.


AYE
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bore
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« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2015, 06:44:30 PM »

Nay

Don't worry windjammer, there are no hard feelings, and i completely understand why you are doing this.

Basically I would not have done this if the vote was 5-3 and Bacon King then voted after the deadline, because then the bill has failed because the vote was not at the right time. I am doing this on the advice of the supreme court to avoid a legal debate over whether a 2/3rds majority of voting senators or a 2/3rds majority of all sitting senators  is needed to pass an amendment. I think it is a majority of voting senators because of what I believe the constitution says and what I think is the most equitable solution, the one our founders will have intended, namely that given this reading, abstentions are not no votes by another name but actual abstentions.
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windjammer
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« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2015, 06:45:37 PM »

Nay

Don't worry windjammer, there are no hard feelings, and i completely understand why you are doing this.

Basically I would not have done this if the vote was 5-3 and Bacon King then voted after the deadline, because then the bill has failed because the vote was not at the right time. I am doing this on the advice of the supreme court to avoid a legal debate over whether a 2/3rds majority of voting senators or a 2/3rds majority of all sitting senators  is needed to pass an amendment. I think it is a majority of voting senators because of what I believe the constitution says and what I think is the most equitable solution, the one our founders will have intended, namely that given this reading, abstentions are not no votes by another name but actual abstentions.
I know there are no bad feelings behind this decision. But I would prefer a court case rather than this situation. Tongue I don't like suspending the rules.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2015, 07:07:14 PM »

Aye
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windjammer
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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2015, 07:09:13 PM »

Oh and the Founding Fathers didn't want women to have a vote Bore. So that's not an argument Tongue.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2015, 09:01:21 PM »

Aye

That interpretation bore is contrary to past interpretations regarding abstentions and the effect. The basic understanding was that you needed 2/3rds and if you are denied the two-thirds it has not passed the Senate.
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TNF
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« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 08:09:21 AM »

Nay
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bore
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« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2015, 08:25:02 AM »

Aye

That interpretation bore is contrary to past interpretations regarding abstentions and the effect. The basic understanding was that you needed 2/3rds and if you are denied the two-thirds it has not passed the Senate.

Perhaps, but it's not contrary to my interpretation of the constitution, and, as speaker, I have to interpret the rules and guidelines in the way I believe them to be written. If other senators disagree, which I think they clearly do, then we will all follow the court's interpretation.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2015, 10:21:13 AM »

NAY

It is the Speaker's right to suspend the senate rules in certain circumstances; and I think this is a circumstance where such should be allowed.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2015, 04:18:37 PM »

Aye
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bore
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« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2015, 04:32:12 PM »

This override has enough votes to pass, senators have 24 hours to change their votes
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bore
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« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2015, 07:15:47 AM »

By a vote of 4-4 the speaker's decision has been overruled:

Aye: Windjammer, Lief, Cris, Yankee

Nay: Bore, Cranberry, TNF, SWE

Not Voting: Bacon King, Polnut

After much thought I've decided that it is easier for all involved to certify this amendment as failed, both on the courts and on the senate. I, personally, am still not convinced that the constitution means 7, but will respect the will of the senate here.
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SWE
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« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2015, 03:26:03 PM »

Ugh
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