Is anyone who doesn't fully understand & support Trans issues an automatic HP??

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

It surprises me, seeing as how many of us enjoy the science of polling, that nobody seems to be calling out a horrendously loaded question.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Yes of course.  Bigot is a more appropriate description than "horrible person" though.  I can't believe so many of you are saying no.  I feel like I'm in the Yahoo comments section.

There was a time when you were ignorant about trans issues, you know.

How long have you known me?  Even if that was true (which it isn't) that still doesn't mean that such a person isn't a bigot.

I am transgender, and there was a time when I was ignorant about trans issues. Give it a rest.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Yes of course.  Bigot is a more appropriate description than "horrible person" though.  I can't believe so many of you are saying no.  I feel like I'm in the Yahoo comments section.

There was a time when you were ignorant about trans issues, you know.

How long have you known me?  Even if that was true (which it isn't) that still doesn't mean that such a person isn't a bigot.

So from the time of your birth, through your youthful ignorance, into adulthood, you have always been aware of what transgenderism is, and fully understood every single aspect of it?

There was a time of course when I didn't know what that word meant, but I was never intolerant towards them once I found out that transgender individuals exist.  I'm sorry but I don't understand why someone would immediately be suspicious of someone who is different and feel threatened enough not to support the issues that concern them.  That fear and suspicion of what is different is what bigotry is. 

[justfollowingtheelections]

Yes of course.  Bigot is a more appropriate description than "horrible person" though.  I can't believe so many of you are saying no.  I feel like I'm in the Yahoo comments section.

There was a time when you were ignorant about trans issues, you know.

How long have you known me?  Even if that was true (which it isn't) that still doesn't mean that such a person isn't a bigot.

I am transgender, and there was a time when I was ignorant about trans issues. Give it a rest.

See my response above and please don't misinterpret what I said.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

frankly…? yes. it's 2015. information is super-easily accessible. the hiflys, jcls, and milo yiannopouloses of this world have no excuse.

[Mister Mets]

I guess the obvious point would be that no one fully understands Trans issues. Even someone who is trans wouldn't automatically understand the point of view of another who is trans and comes from a relatively similar background (IE- same religion, income group, city), let alone from a different part of the world, with different social norms and understandings.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

OK, let's reframe the question: is somebody who refuses to respect another's personal decision about their gender an HP? And the answer to that, for me, is yes.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I guess the obvious point would be that no one fully understands Trans issues. Even someone who is trans wouldn't automatically understand the point of view of another who is trans from their background, let alone from a different part of the world, with different social norms and understandings.

Well, yes, but then nobody understands anything.

[traininthedistance]

OK, let's reframe the question: is somebody who refuses to respect another's personal decision about their gender an HP? And the answer to that, for me, is yes.

This is the correct way of thinking about it.  One doesn't need to "fully understand", whatever exactly that means; one simply needs to make a good faith effort to be respectful, which shouldn't be so hard.

[Lambsbread]

OK, let's reframe the question: is somebody who refuses to respect another's personal decision about their gender an HP? And the answer to that, for me, is yes.

Obviously the answer is yes.

[Lief 🗽]

No, but I voted "yes" because this is an idiotic strawman.

[Mister Mets]

OK, let's reframe the question: is somebody who refuses to respect another's personal decision about their gender an HP? And the answer to that, for me, is yes.

There are going to be some exceptions here.

I guess the obvious point would be that no one fully understands Trans issues. Even someone who is trans wouldn't automatically understand the point of view of another who is trans from their background, let alone from a different part of the world, with different social norms and understandings.

Well, yes, but then nobody understands anything.

We should acknowledge ambiguities. That can be especially significant in Trans issues, especially with the debates about letting people who aren't legal adults make major medical decisions. That necessitates an understanding of what we don't know.

[Simfan34]

...no.

[Mehmentum]

No.  Most people who are intolerant of Transgendered people were raised to believe what they believe.  Its very difficult for people to work past their upbringing.  You'll never reach these people with hatred and hostility, you'll only push them further away.

[Kushahontas]

understand? no...not unless they actively refuse to learn

support? YES. no exception.

[TDAS04]

OK, let's reframe the question: is somebody who refuses to respect another's personal decision about their gender an HP? And the answer to that, for me, is yes.

Obviously the answer is yes.

[Alcon]

I'm with Mikado.  I really just don't get why this issue is so complicated.  Unless there's a good reason, don't be a dick about personal preferences and choices.

"Good reasons" include:

1. If they're hurting other people.

2. If they're hurting themselves.  ("It would be better if they didn't feel transgender/gay" is not "hurting themselves."  Just because someone's feelings/preferences are inconvenient doesn't mean they're willfully self-harming.  This is especially true if the only thing that makes them inconvenient is that people

3. If they may be a red flag that they're hurting others or themselves.

I have no problem with people who worry about transgender people.  I even get why some people might think transgenderism might be a "red flag" for other issues.  Sometimes it probably is, and if you've unfamiliar, you might think it usually is.

And, seriously, this is over-complicating it.  Don't be a jerk to people just because they feel and like different things than you.  Even if you think those things are immoral, unless you think that treating them poorly will change their behavior, just don't.  If you are actually concerned about them, don't be passive-aggressive and weird about it.  Sit them down and tell them what's bothering you.  If you don't care enough to do so, you don't get to pretend you care enough to treat them poorly on principle.  Period.

Even if transgenderism is novel, I don't see why people think it's complicated or requires much experience.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Understand?  No.  Support?  Yes, if you do not support a person just being who they are/want to be when it has everything to do with their own identity and nothing to do with anyone else... You are an HP because you are basically saying that a person should be the individual YOU want them to be.   

[ingemann]

If I ban my child from getting clothing which make her look like a 11 year old prostitute, do it make me a horrible person?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If I ban my child from getting clothing which make her look like a 11 year old prostitute, do it make me a horrible person?

What does that have to do with anything? Christ, Ingemann, I knew you weren't the best on trans issues, but I didn't think you'd stoop this low.

[ingemann]

If I ban my child from getting clothing which make her look like a 11 year old prostitute, do it make me a horrible person?

What does that have to do with anything? Christ, Ingemann, I knew you weren't the best on trans issues, but I didn't think you'd stoop this low.

It means that we all agree that parents should set some borders and limits up for their children, and parents who doesn't are often seen terrible parents. But that also means that sometimes it's hard for parents to know, when they set reasonable limits for their childrens behaviour to protect them and when the limits they set sabotage the childrens development.

Let's say that we have some parents who support the child in all of these things, but years after he or her changed views and blame the parents, that they let him destroy his or her body by giving it hormones, while the body was still growing.

The truth are that no matter what you do, you risk not raising your child right, so mostly parents just run with their instincts, and sometimes that end up wrong. But calling people horrible over that is a very Atlas thing to do, and not in a positive way.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If I ban my child from getting clothing which make her look like a 11 year old prostitute, do it make me a horrible person?

What does that have to do with anything? Christ, Ingemann, I knew you weren't the best on trans issues, but I didn't think you'd stoop this low.

It means that we all agree that parents should set some borders and limits up for their children, and parents who doesn't are often seen terrible parents. But that also means that sometimes it's hard for parents to know, when they set reasonable limits for their childrens behaviour to protect them and when the limits they set sabotage the childrens development.

Let's say that we have some parents who support the child in all of these things, but years after he or her changed views and blame the parents, that they let him destroy his or her body by giving it hormones, while the body was still growing.

The truth are that no matter what you do, you risk not raising your child right, so mostly parents just run with their instincts, and sometimes that end up wrong. But calling people horrible over that is a very Atlas thing to do, and not in a positive way.

I'd think any reasonable person would realize that cutting their child off from society is harmful to development. You seem to be implying in that second paragraph that we should dismiss actual trans kids' issues on the off chance that someone might change their mind. I know trans people who would kill to have those hormones.

One would think the parents might take some time to learn what transgenderism is and perhaps love their daughter for who she is rather than trying to force their beliefs on her to the point of her killing themselves. Believe what you want, but the fact remains that they are directly responsible for Leelah's death.

[Mister Mets]

If I ban my child from getting clothing which make her look like a 11 year old prostitute, do it make me a horrible person?

What does that have to do with anything? Christ, Ingemann, I knew you weren't the best on trans issues, but I didn't think you'd stoop this low.

It means that we all agree that parents should set some borders and limits up for their children, and parents who doesn't are often seen terrible parents. But that also means that sometimes it's hard for parents to know, when they set reasonable limits for their childrens behaviour to protect them and when the limits they set sabotage the childrens development.

Let's say that we have some parents who support the child in all of these things, but years after he or her changed views and blame the parents, that they let him destroy his or her body by giving it hormones, while the body was still growing.

The truth are that no matter what you do, you risk not raising your child right, so mostly parents just run with their instincts, and sometimes that end up wrong. But calling people horrible over that is a very Atlas thing to do, and not in a positive way.

I'd think any reasonable person would realize that cutting their child off from society is harmful to development. You seem to be implying in that second paragraph that we should dismiss actual trans kids' issues on the off chance that someone might change their mind. I know trans people who would kill to have those hormones.

One would think the parents might take some time to learn what transgenderism is and perhaps love their daughter for who she is rather than trying to force their beliefs on her to the point of her killing themselves. Believe what you want, but the fact remains that they are directly responsible for Leelah's death.

The number of trans kids who change their minds is pretty high, although it's based on a fairly loose definition. This was buried in a Rolling Stone piece about a child's difficulties.

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There's a lot of confusion on all sides.

Andrew Sullivan's Daily Dish has an interesting consideration of the puberty blocking medication often assigned to children who identify as trans. It serves as a way to delay medical decisions.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2015/01/06/leelah-alcorns-last-words-ctd-4/