Canadian by-elections, 2015

[136or142]

It is very obvious that you don't live in BC!

BC NDP leader John Horgan receives very little press out here. And when he does it's due to his embarrassing "bozo eruptions" in the BC legislature requiring other BC NDP MLAs to hold him back.

Horgan is also a prolific letter writer to local newspapers in BC - and when he does it's typically letters of apology to the locals for making previous inaccurate and misleading statements to the locals.

Horgan is quick-tempered (cue the angry Tom meme) and "loses it" all the time. Just a few weeks ago, Vancouver Sun political columnist Vaughn Palmer made detailed note of same in Horgan's confrontation with several major BC media reporters. "Go screw me" he said.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/vaughn+palmer+glimpse+prickly+side+john+horgan/11419169/story.html

Sorry. But Horgan is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off at a moment's notice. In politics, that is politically toxic. Never would have thought that anyone could make Adrian Dix "look good".

Even about a month ago, Saanich South BC NDP MLA Lana Popham threatened to quit the BC NDP caucus over BC Hydro's Site C dam, which BTW has major (82%) public support. And the NDP is opposed to natural gas development, LNG, other resource development, etc. Simply put, the BC NDP does not know what it stands for anymore. Again, it's drifting and moribund and basically has turned into a political train-wreck.

The BC NDP will likely see it's worst electoral showing in the 2017 BC election (aside from the 2001 debacle) since 1969.

BTW, during the recent fed election, most folk that I know voted Liberal here in BC - and these same folk view the NDP as politically toxic. Just not electable.

And then yesterday another major scandal broke out all over the news about prominent NDPers at Vancouver City Hall massively deleting all of their e-mails (Mayor's Chief of Staff Mike Magee for one). That finding was from an investigator of the BC Freedom of Information office.

Hell, even BC Green Party Andrew Weaver seems to be getting more press than BC NDP leader Horgan. And Weaver is seemingly more liked, respected, and credible as well. During the upcoming by-elections, the Greens, as the 3rd party will be the major beneficiaries in terms of popular vote share. No doubt about that.

PS. Over the past weekend, a well known soft-NDP supporter in BC ran a Twitter poll and was astounded that 85% want to see another party in BC akin to the centrist federal Liberals. Most of her followers and ones supporting that concept are also well known soft NDP supporters. Just shows how badly damaged the BC NDP brand is - notwithstanding that the fed NDP support in BC has collapsed to just 13% in today's Forum Research poll.

Hyper partisan B.S
1.John Horgan is in the media fairly regularly.  Maybe not so much the print media, but he often appears on talk shows on both the radio and tv.  He receives press coverage in the major dailies whenever the legislature is in session, which under Christy Clark, hasn't been all that often.

I don't know how much local press he receives.

2.Horgan has had one or two outbursts is the legislature.  It's certainly true he has a temper but he mostly keeps it under control. I'm also not sure that that is a big problem.  At a minimum Stephen Harper was reported to have a very bad temper and kept it in check with a smile that usually seemed far more forced than Mulcairs'.  (It says something about the Canadian media that some commentators would refer to Mulcair's smile as 'creepy' but never mentioned Harper's smile.  In my family and among my friends, we all found Harper's smile to be far more creepy.

In the U.S, it wasn't even a secret that Bill Clinton had a massive temper, although once he calmed down, he seemed to forget everything he had said and his staffers learned to just ignore his ranting.

3.I read the local papers regularly especially the letters to the editor, and I've never seen a letter from John Horgan, yet alone one from him apologizing for misstatements.  If this has happened it likely occurred no more than once.  This claim from lotuslander should be taken with a massive grain of salt given his/her obvious bias.

4.Christy Clark doesn't seem to have a temper problem, but she has the exact opposite problem. She seems to think she is funny and she has gotten into trouble for her allegedly humorous tweets far more than Horgan has gotten into trouble for his temper.  Of course, Clark definitely has a problem with honesty.    Horgan was event trying to soft peddle that at the convention.  He said straight up something like "Christy Clark is a liar who will say anything to get elected."

5.I highly doubt Site 'C' has 82% support.  If it ever did, that is certainly no longer the case once the official cost was released (officially over $9 billion. Once the standard 15% increase to public mega projects is added in, this goes over $10 billion)

6.There is no question the NDP is divided on LNG and resource development, but saying the NDP  opposes those things is an outright lie.

7.In regards to the poll, I would consider myself one of those people that would like a provincial wing of the Federal Liberal Party to run provincially.  A handful of defeated New Democrats basically acknowledged something similar to that when they said the provincial NDP and the Federal NDP should be split up.  That said, obviously a twitter poll isn't scientific and while 85% (if accurate) obviously suggests something real, it's debatable exactly how much.

[136or142]

I'd like to see the Federal NDP candidate for this riding, Sara Norman, run provincially.  She had a decent showing and would have won were it not for the late Liberal surge.

Huh? Norman in 3rd place with 27% and she would have won the riding? Most of the voters therein were Con<---> Lib switchers.

Sara Norman had a large lead in one of the riding polls a few weeks before the election.  To be sure, most of those riding polls weren't very accurate, but the poll was consistent with where the provincial numbers at the time.

I would also say that 'decent showing' is an accurate representation of 27% of the vote in a 3/4 way race.  She received 15,400 votes losing by about 4,500 and was 8% behind the winner.

I believe Lotuslander used to (and maybe still does) post on Eric Grenier's site, and he/she was one of the main reasons I quit his site.  I wrote an email to Grenier saying that while I certainly didn't expect him to know everything, there were comments on his website that were so obviously false that they should have been deleted.  Grenier seemed concerned about posts that violated 'nice' conduct (including my referring to another hyper partisan poster there who called himself B.C Voice of Reason as B.C Voice of (no) Reason), but when it came to accuracy and truthfulness, Grenier didn't seem to care in the slightest.

[DL]

We should take anything "lotuslander" says with a boulder of salt since his main purpose in life seems to be to act out on his "NDP derangement syndrome" - his predictions tend to be dead wrong almost 100% of the time. Just a few weeks ago he was saying the federal NDP would get just 5 or 6 seats in BC - they got 14. He said the Green party would easily win Victoria from the NDP - it went NDP in a landslide. He said the Conservatives would GAIN seats from the NDP on vancouver island - they lost every single one by a wide margin while the NDP swept 6 out of 7 seats on the island. He said the Tories would GAIN NDP seats in the Lower Mainlaind - they got blown out of the water and came in third in riding after riding that ended up being Liberal/NDP contests. He poo-poohed the idea of the NDP having strength in the BC interior after a mega rally in Penticton - the NDP ended up win South Okanagan-West Kootenay AND Kootenay Columbia - both ridings  that were notionally CPC seats after redistribution.

Caveat emptor  

[Lotuslander]

Hyper partisan B.S
1.John Horgan is in the media fairly regularly.  Maybe not so much the print media, but he often appears on talk shows on both the radio and tv.  He receives press coverage in the major dailies whenever the legislature is in session, which under Christy Clark, hasn't been all that often.

I don't know how much local press he receives.

2.Horgan has had one or two outbursts is the legislature.  It's certainly true he has a temper but he mostly keeps it under control. I'm also not sure that that is a big problem.  At a minimum Stephen Harper was reported to have a very bad temper and kept it in check with a smile that usually seemed far more forced than Mulcairs'.  (It says something about the Canadian media that some commentators would refer to Mulcair's smile as 'creepy' but never mentioned Harper's smile.  In my family and among my friends, we all found Harper's smile to be far more creepy.

In the U.S, it wasn't even a secret that Bill Clinton had a massive temper, although once he calmed down, he seemed to forget everything he had said and his staffers learned to just ignore his ranting.

3.I read the local papers regularly especially the letters to the editor, and I've never seen a letter from John Horgan, yet alone one from him apologizing for misstatements.  If this has happened it likely occurred no more than once.  This claim from lotuslander should be taken with a massive grain of salt given his/her obvious bias.

4.Christy Clark doesn't seem to have a temper problem, but she has the exact opposite problem. She seems to think she is funny and she has gotten into trouble for her allegedly humorous tweets far more than Horgan has gotten into trouble for his temper.  Of course, Clark definitely has a problem with honesty.    Horgan was event trying to soft peddle that at the convention.  He said straight up something like "Christy Clark is a liar who will say anything to get elected."

5.I highly doubt Site 'C' has 82% support.  If it ever did, that is certainly no longer the case once the official cost was released (nearly $10 billion.)

6.There is no question the NDP is divided on LNG and resource development, but saying the NDP  opposes those things is an outright lie.

Sorry, But that is hyper-partisan BS. Aren't you the same guy who resides in the Richmond and didn't even know that Queensborough is part of NW or something to that effect?

1. I am a news junkie (6 pm NewsHour Global BC, Vancouver Sun, etc.) and Horgan doesn't get that much coverage. And when he does, alot of it has not been favourable dealing with either Horgan himself or internal BC NDP squabbles. Even Green leader Andrew Weaver seems to get more coverage over the past year.

2. Sorry, but Horgan's outbursts are legendary - his face goes beat red... you know the drill. That's politically toxic, involves bad relations with the media, and imagine Horgan having a bozo eruption during the 2017 or even during the election debates?

3. Horgan has gone to Prince Rupert, Kitimat, Prince George, Dawson Creek, etc. Has received negative local press about his local statements on natural gas fracking, natural gas development, LNG, natural gas pipelines, Site C dam, etc. After the fact, Horgan writes letters to the editor to all of these local papers "to correct" his previous statements. In my entire life in BC, have never seen anything akin to same. Just Google it up.

4. In terms of popularity/public perception, Horgan places 3rd after both CC and Andrew Weaver from all of the data that I have seen.

5. BC hydro's Site C dam? 82% support/17% opposed from Abacus Data poll back in July.  67% support/18% opposed from NRG Research poll of last week.

6. Most of the BC NDP caucus is opposed to natural gas fracking, natural gas pipelines, LNG, BC Hydro's Site C dam, etc. Totally on the outs with BC public opinion. In fact, the BC NDP opposed the Project Development Agreement in the BC legislature for the $36 billion Petronas LNG project in NW BC. Even today, the prez of Petronas in Kuala Lumpur stated that they are awaiting the CEAA final environment certification expected in late January for their go ahead.

The optics of the BC NDP OPPOSING the Petronas Project Development Agreement will be brutal for the BC NDP during the 2017 election campaign. Welcome to BC's new political reality.

Just wait for the 2 by-election results next February.

[Lotuslander]

I'd like to see the Federal NDP candidate for this riding, Sara Norman, run provincially.  She had a decent showing and would have won were it not for the late Liberal surge.

Huh? Norman in 3rd place with 27% and she would have won the riding? Most of the voters therein were Con<---> Lib switchers.

I believe Lotuslander used to (and maybe still does) post on Eric Grenier's site, and he/she was one of the main reasons I quit his site.  I wrote an email to Grenier saying that while I certainly didn't expect him to know everything, there were comments on his website that were so obviously false that they should have been deleted.  Grenier seemed concerned about posts that violated 'nice' conduct (including my referring to another hyper partisan poster there who called himself B.C Voice of Reason as B.C Voice of (no) Reason), but when it came to accuracy and truthfulness, Grenier didn't seem to care in the slightest.

Huh? I don't even bother to look at 308. Wayyyy better sites out there. Between you and DL... must be a full moon out there.

The same guys predicting a massive BC NDP landslide back in May, 2013 Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[DL]

The last poll on BC provincial politics was from May of this year - and it shows that Horgan is by far the most popular party leader in BC - and numerous polls have shown that Christy Clark is just about the most hated premier in Canada with disapproval numbers getting well above 70%

http://www.insightswest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Slide3.png

[136or142]

"Sorry, But that is hyper-partisan BS. Aren't you the same guy who resides in the Richmond and didn't even know that Queensborough is part of NW or something to that effect?"

Yes, of course, you left out that the reason you know that is because I disclosed it.  I live in East Richmond but not very close to New Westminster.  I knew that part of Lulu Island was not in Richmond but I did not know that was the part.  Were it not for the relatively new construction in the Hamilton area, I wouldn't even have had a reason to know that Queensborough exists.

3. "Horgan has gone to Prince Rupert, Kitimat, Prince George, Dawson Creek, etc. Has received negative local press about his local statements on natural gas fracking, natural gas development, LNG, natural gas pipelines, Site C dam, etc. After the fact, Horgan writes letters to the editor to all of these local papers "to correct" his previous statements. In my entire life in BC, have never seen anything akin to same. Just Google it up."

I googled it and can't find a single article on this.

4. "In terms of popularity/public perception, Horgan places 3rd after both CC and Andrew Weaver from all of the data that I have seen."

Christy Clark is likely in last place by a mile.

5. "BC hydro's Site C dam? 82% support/17% opposed from Abacus Data poll back in July.  67% support/18% opposed from NRG Research poll of last week."

The Abacus Data poll seems to have been paid for by B.C Hydro
https://www.bchydro.com/news/press_centre/news_releases/2015/site-c-poll.html

The NRG Research poll was paid for by the Independent Contractors and Business Association:
http://energeticcity.ca/article/news/2015/11/09/icba-president-says-opposition-stance-on-big-projects-not-shared-by-majority-of-bc

I certainly would not question the veracity of Abacus (I've never heard of NRG Research previously) but I also would not doubt they might ask leading questions.
http://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/opinion/letters/site-c-poll-doesn-t-ask-the-right-questions-1.2003018

6. "Most of the BC NDP caucus is opposed to natural gas fracking, natural gas pipelines, LNG, BC Hydro's Site C dam, etc. Totally on the outs with BC public opinion. In fact, the BC NDP opposed the Project Development Agreement in the BC legislature for the $36 billion Petronas LNG project in NW BC. Even today, the prez of Petronas in Kuala Lumpur stated that they are awaiting the CEAA final environment certification expected in late January for their go ahead."

The NDP voted in favor of some of the LNG legislation.  I believe I recall they voted against this project siting what they said was a poorly negotiated agreement. Given the market price of LNG and the large LNG developments already in Australia and the United States, I think this is a moot point anyway and I, and most energy market experts doubt there will be any B.C project to go ahead for at least the next decade.

"The optics of the BC NDP OPPOSING the Petronas Project Development Agreement will be brutal for the BC NDP during the 2017 election campaign. Welcome to BC's new political reality."

The optics of the NDP running ads showing Christy Clark's 'debt free B.C' bus will likely be even more brutal for the B.C Liberal Party, assuming Christy Clark is still leading the B.C Liberals by then.

"Just wait for the 2 by-election results next February."
I would expect the NDP to win both by elections handily.

[136or142]

I'd like to see the Federal NDP candidate for this riding, Sara Norman, run provincially.  She had a decent showing and would have won were it not for the late Liberal surge.

Huh? Norman in 3rd place with 27% and she would have won the riding? Most of the voters therein were Con<---> Lib switchers.

I believe Lotuslander used to (and maybe still does) post on Eric Grenier's site, and he/she was one of the main reasons I quit his site.  I wrote an email to Grenier saying that while I certainly didn't expect him to know everything, there were comments on his website that were so obviously false that they should have been deleted.  Grenier seemed concerned about posts that violated 'nice' conduct (including my referring to another hyper partisan poster there who called himself B.C Voice of Reason as B.C Voice of (no) Reason), but when it came to accuracy and truthfulness, Grenier didn't seem to care in the slightest.

Huh? I don't even bother to look at 308. Wayyyy better sites out there. Between you and DL... must be a full moon out there.

The same guys predicting a massive BC NDP landslide back in May, 2013 Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

OK, I confused you with somebody else.  I would apologize for that, but since you've confused me with somebody who made a prediction on the 2013 B.C provincial election, when I never did, I'd say we're even.

[MaxQue]

Oh, great, our local NDP-hater is back.

You know Lotuslander, than you are swinging no votes to Greens by campaigning here?

[Hash]

Everybody please take a step back, calm down and relax. No need for this to get heated.

[Hatman 🍁]

I suspect the NDP has a good chance to pick up Coquitlam. They did win some pretty big by-elections back in 2012, and I suspect a similar situation this time. Though, the NDP had a much bigger lead in the polls back then.

Would be nice to see some new polls from the province, though. Right now it's too close to call.

[Hatman 🍁]

There will be a by-election on Sunday on Montreal's City Council. The district of St. Leonard East was vacated in June after the death of councillor Domenico Moschella.

Moschella (representing Coalition Montreal) only won because his Team Denis Coderre opponent had to drop out at the last minute. Coderre's candidates won in every other district in the borough by over 60% of the vote. The district also had a lot of people casting null votes for council, as I recall there may have been more null votes than for Moschella himself!

Should be an easy Team Coderre victory. They're running Patricia Lattanzio. Project Montreal is also running a candidate, and there are two independents running.

[Lotuslander]

I would expect the NDP to win both by elections handily.

Sigh. With your other preceding comments... it never ceases to amaze me that folk fail to understand BC politics and dynamics thereto. I will leave it at that.

As for Coquitlam-Burke Mountain.. one needs to only look at the demographics:

1. Westwood Plateau - one of largest residential developments in Coquitlam and likely highest income demographic/priciest real estate in eastern Metro Vancouver suburbs; Look at colour-coded riding map and BC Libs won all polling stations here;

2. Coquitlam Town Centre - Many new condo towers built here, are under construction, and in planning stages (with terminus of Evergreen line); Look at colour-coded riding map and BC Libs won all polling stations where condo towers are situate;

3. Burke Mountain - now largest residential development area in eastern Metro Vancouver suburbs. Small, single family homes here start at ~$1 million and townhouses roughly in $750,000 range; Another high-income demographic area; Look again at colour-coded riding map and BC Libs won all polling stations therein; BTW, future population here expected to increase between 25,000 - 40,000;

4. NDP strength is in older 1950's/1960's cheaper residential area east of Pipeline Rd./South of David Avenue. But the explosive population growth is occurring in the previous aforementioned areas;

The demographics of this riding are clearly centre-right. Do not need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

[Hatman 🍁]

The demographics of Chilliwack-Hope skew even more right wing, yet it still went NDP in the 2012 by-election.

We're not talking about the general election here, we're talking about a by-election. It's a very different scenario.

[Lotuslander]

The demographics of Chilliwack-Hope skew even more right wing, yet it still went NDP in the 2012 by-election.

We're not talking about the general election here, we're talking about a by-election. It's a very different scenario.

Good points. But caveat emptor.

Firstly, Chilliwack-Hope is more of a rural small "c" conservative type riding while Coquitlam-Burke Mountain is more of a suburban "blue" liberal type riding in terms of demographics.

Secondly, BC political dynamics were completely different back in April, 2012 (during both by-elections) with the BC NDP and Adrian Dix continuously dominating the news media and CC and the BC Libs under siege.

Back in March/April 2012, both Forum Research (IVR) and Angus Reid (opt-in online panel) surprisingly had the exact same BC provincial polling results:

BC NDP: 46%
BC Lib: 23%
BC Con: 23%
Green: 8%

Again, at that time, the BC NDP was riding high, the BC Libs were at a very low ebb and the BC Cons were led by former Con MP John Cummins who also received considerable media attention. The BC Greens were also dormant.

And the Chilliwack-Hope by-election results in April, 2012?

BC NDP: 42%
BC Lib: 32%
BC Con: 25%

A split centre-right/right vote with no Green candidate.

Today's political dynamics in BC are completely different. The BC Libs are actually cruising along quite well (for the most part), the BC NDP continues to suffer internal schisms, the BC Cons are D-E-A-D, and the BC Greens have considerable media exposure with Andrew Weaver.

In epilogue, I voted Lib federally and was ecstatic about the fed outcome. Folk posting here are obviously not only anti-Con, but anti-Lib, anti-Green and seem to worship at the altar of the NDP. Does not make for logical political analysis when one is wearing such a set of orange-coloured eye-glasses.

[Citizen Hats]

The demographics of Chilliwack-Hope skew even more right wing, yet it still went NDP in the 2012 by-election.

We're not talking about the general election here, we're talking about a by-election. It's a very different scenario.

There's no pulse at the BC Conservative Party to make that sort of result plausible at this time

[Hatman 🍁]

You will note that while I am an NDP supporter, I'm usually very bearish about NDP prospects most of the time.

We haven't seen any recent polling to know what is going on, but I'm going to be very Leary about anyone's particular biased reading of the tea leaves at this point.

[Lotuslander]

We should take anything "lotuslander" says with a boulder of salt since his main purpose in life seems to be to act out on his "NDP derangement syndrome"

Oh, great, our local NDP-hater is back.

You know Lotuslander, than you are swinging no votes to Greens by campaigning here?

Haha. The NDP "Über Alles" crowd. Know that type. Even with the fed NDP collapsing to 12% federally in Canada (and to 13% in BC) with the Forum Research opinion poll results released today.

In that vein, a guy called Brad Zubyk was a former BC NDP strategist. He left the BC NDP and joined the BC Liberals. Why? Because he saw how the BC NDP operates. It operates "akin to a church" and anyone opposing the BC NDP's views would be considered blasphemous and be ostracized with a proverbial holy jihad placed against 'em. Kinda freaky.

In 2013, the BC NDP ran a very credible candidate in the BC provincial riding of Vancouver-False Creek - Matt Toner. Was a 30's-something high tech guy with green leanings. Back then I thought the BC NDP had its best candidate catch ever. Van-FC was a strong BC Lib riding and he lost.

Within the past year, Matt Toner left the BC NDP for the BC Green Party. Why? "The BC NDP is full of 1990's era politicians dealing with 1960's era solutions".

Sorry. But for all ya NDP church folk here.... I have zero tolerance for your Jehovah Witness cult-like crap. Period.

[King of Kensington]

I'm not surprised that the NDP is at 12% in a recent poll - while there are a few hundred hyper-partisan NDP activists in the country that hate the Liberals are either "exactly the same" as the Conservatives or actually worse, the vast majority of the NDP electorate is thrilled to see Harper gone and wishes Trudeau well.  I wouldn't read much into that, though I would agree that the NDP needs to go so through some real soul-searching beyond Anne McGrath's silly survey to the membership.  It may very well be that the party as of now has no real purpose anymore, but it's far too early to write the obituary. 

[136or142]

I would expect the NDP to win both by elections handily.

Sigh. With your other preceding comments... it never ceases to amaze me that folk fail to understand BC politics and dynamics thereto. I will leave it at that.

If you understand it so well, why do you need to post dubious polls or tell outright lies to make your point?

I've said numerous times I'm a Federal Liberal and I believe I've also said here a number of times that I'm not a fan of the Provincial NDP, for some of the reasons that you mentioned.  The hatred that the New Democrats on Babble show towards people who leave their 'tribe' as well as their attitude of moral superiority based on nothing, I find to be absolutely distasteful as well.  Before I got banned on Babble for calling out a complete moron there who I won't name (but his name rhymes with orth teport), I got into a fairly lengthy debate with some of them over how they felt they could justify their attitudes of superiority when the B.C NDP governments from 1991-2001 were every bit as corrupt as every other government ever elected in the province.

So, I am no fan of the NDP either.  That said, even though I despised the Conservatives under Stephen Harper and most right wing politics in general in Canada and the United States, I believe I've shown here I was loyal to truth and to right more than anything.  So, when I see attacks on the provincial NDP that are based on lies or half truths, as I've shown your comments to be, I am absolutely going to call you out on them.

If you want to make a bet on the upcoming Coquitlam-Burke Mountain by election, name your price.

[Lotuslander]

If you understand it so well, why do you need to post dubious polls or tell outright lies to make your point?

Sorry buds. I have posted no dubious polls here. And 2 separate polls on BC Hydro's Site C dam corroborate each other. You are too enamoured with the BC NDP to consider otherwise.

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Sorry, but you are not in sync with both the facts and BC public opinion. Period. I know that. You don't.

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$1,000 (with 10 brown ones). And we will have the moderator here act as intermediary. Deal?

[King of Kensington]

That "North Report" idiot has made babble a toxic place.

[136or142]

If you understand it so well, why do you need to post dubious polls or tell outright lies to make your point?

Sorry buds. I have posted no dubious polls here. And 2 separate polls on BC Hydro's Site C dam corroborate each other. You are too enamoured with the BC NDP to consider otherwise.

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Sorry, but you are not in sync with BC public opinion. Period. I know that. You don't.

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$1,000 (with 10 brown ones). And we will have the moderator here act as intermediary. Deal?

1.How many times do I have to say I'm not a New Democrat?

2.Two dubious polls don't add up to one truthful poll.

3.Given that you said that you think John Horgan is in third in the favorable ratings when everybody who is in sync with B.C public opinion knows Christy Clark is literally hated by many British Columbians (and not just New Democrats) and is in almost certainly in a far distant third in the ratings (we just need a new poll to confirm this, but it's obvious from listening to CKNW, which is normally not exactly the most NDP friendly station that even many normally conservative types can't stand her flippant 'humor' or her governing by public relations style, it's clearly you who don't know anything about B.C public opinion.

4.I doubt the moderators here would endorse a bet, but I'm all for it.

[136or142]

That "North Report" idiot has made babble a toxic place.

Who is this "North Report?" I was referring to a poster there whose named rhymed with Orth Teport.

From my occasional trips back there, it seems many posters have quit Babble.  I don't know if he was the sole or even the main reason so many seem to have left, but I don't doubt he was one reason.

The moderators there can do what they like including banning me.  But, I admit that I resent that they banned me on what I consider to be rather dubious grounds while they leave that idiot to ruin the site (and also leave that almost certainly FSB disinformation agent Ikosmos alone.  So, the moderators at Babble have a problem with me for calling out Orth Teport but have no problem with posts from an individual who is almost certainly an agent of Vladimir Putin. I mean that literally as I've read that The FSB under Putin makes propaganda posts to virtually every western political discussion board, although I've never seen any here or on politicalwire.  Of course, it's possible that the moderators here and there wisely ban those would be posters.)

Anyway, my problems there should not be a topic of discussion here, beyond what I've already posted.

[Lotuslander]

3.Given that you said that you think John Horgan is in third in the favorable ratings when everybody who is in sync with B.C public opinion knows Christy Clark is literally hated by many British Columbians (and not just New Democrats) and is in a far distant third in the ratings, it's clearly you who don't know anything about B.C public opinion.

I know well enough that Horgan is mocked and held in contempt by both BC NDPers and the voting public (those who know him). Basically "Tom Mulcair on steriods". Or the "anti-Justin Trudeau". All the relevant data is out there. Not rocket science.

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It's a deal! Don't worry... I am sure that I can get one of the BC moderators here to act as intermediary. If not, you are in Richmond. I am in White Rock. Close enough.