Opinion of ingemann

[morgieb]

Racist c**t.

[SWE]

Garbage (normal)

[BaconBacon96]

Racist c**t.

[politicus]

Can be crude and insensitive at times and I disagree with him on plenty. That said he often has interesting perspectives on things and represents a blue collar demographic that is highly underrepresented on Atlas. He has a broad knowledge of many subjects, but it is sometimes shallow and a bit narrow in perspective, as one would expect from someone who educated himself. Should be regarded in the "barks worse than he bites" category and not vilified unnecessarily.

[Antonio the Sixth]

He said Bismarck should have "broken" France in 1870. HP.

[politicus]

He said Bismarck should have "broken" France in 1870. HP.

That was a stinker indeed and also rather unpatriotic considering how much hope Danes had in Napoleon 3. revenging our humiliation in 1864 and sticking it to those uppity Krauts.

Vive la France! and may Bismarck rot in hell, of course.

[RR1997]

Garbage (normal)

[politicus]

Racist c**t.

I suppose I could go through Ingemann's recent posting history trying to figure out why he is polling this low (I would have guessed on a 70/30 distribution), but since I am lazy: What provoked this poll and your initial comment?

[morgieb]

Racist c**t.

I suppose I could go through Ingemann's recent posting history trying to figure out why he is polling this low (I would have guessed on a 70/30 distribution), but since I am lazy: What provoked this poll and your initial comment?

His behaviour in the Charlie Hebdo thread.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

For reference:

Absolutely horrible. The cowards and terrorists behind this need to be shot or locked up forever.

However, at the same time, I hope (a futile hope, mind you) that people don't overreact respond with hatred, intolerance and mindless knee-jerk xenophobia. I'm sure the last thing these free-thinkers would have wanted is for people to embrace Panzergirl's hatred and racism. Alas, it's France and not Canada.

You know I tend to be a little tired by the whole; "the real victims are the Muslim immigrants" when a Muslim immigrant or a group of Muslim immigrants murders or commit other crimes people. No the real victims are the people killed.

In fact I don't care about the Muslim world's feelings in all this, and the reason I don't care, is becaues in 2001 Bush bend backward not to blame Muslims as a group and people still didn't think it was enough (the hysterics over using the word crusade). They will find a way to blame the victims.

If Muslim immigrants in Europe don't want to be blame, they should do something not to be blame.

[ingemann]

He's clearly the greatest Freedom Fighter on this board and I simply lack words for for how much I admire him.

He said Bismarck should have "broken" France in 1870. HP.

That was a stinker indeed and also rather unpatriotic considering how much hope Danes had in Napoleon 3. revenging our humiliation in 1864 and sticking it to those uppity Krauts.

Vive la France! and may Bismarck rot in hell, of course.

I of course respect Antonio's and yours reasons to disagree with me here. I too would have prefered a Denmark which including Altona. But I think a large stable Social Democratic imperial Germany in 1920ties and later to what we got, and that needed a France broken  and preferable without the massive losses of WW1.

[Antonio the Sixth]

He's clearly the greatest Freedom Fighter on this board and I simply lack words for for how much I admire him.

He said Bismarck should have "broken" France in 1870. HP.

That was a stinker indeed and also rather unpatriotic considering how much hope Danes had in Napoleon 3. revenging our humiliation in 1864 and sticking it to those uppity Krauts.

Vive la France! and may Bismarck rot in hell, of course.

I of course respect Antonio's and yours reasons to disagree with me here. I too would have prefered a Denmark which including Altona. But I think a large stable Social Democratic imperial Germany in 1920ties and later to what we got, and that needed a France broken  and preferable without the massive losses of WW1.

There's one factor that would always have prevented a Social Democratic Germany (and that, in fact, did exactly that IRL): the SPD's utter incompetence and stupidity.

[ingemann]

He's clearly the greatest Freedom Fighter on this board and I simply lack words for for how much I admire him.

He said Bismarck should have "broken" France in 1870. HP.

That was a stinker indeed and also rather unpatriotic considering how much hope Danes had in Napoleon 3. revenging our humiliation in 1864 and sticking it to those uppity Krauts.

Vive la France! and may Bismarck rot in hell, of course.

I of course respect Antonio's and yours reasons to disagree with me here. I too would have prefered a Denmark which including Altona. But I think a large stable Social Democratic imperial Germany in 1920ties and later to what we got, and that needed a France broken  and preferable without the massive losses of WW1.

There's one factor that would always have prevented a Social Democratic Germany (and that, in fact, did exactly that IRL): the SPD's utter incompetence and stupidity.

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties, except they was a little ahead of them. Without a murder in Sarajevo 1914, we would likely have seen SPD in power in 1916 or 1920. From that point imperial Germany would likely have developed much like the Nordic countries. Instead we got the chaos of the 20ties, the rise of Nazism, a Europe in flames and at last a conservative Germany. Thanks France.

[ingemann]

For reference:

Absolutely horrible. The cowards and terrorists behind this need to be shot or locked up forever.

However, at the same time, I hope (a futile hope, mind you) that people don't overreact respond with hatred, intolerance and mindless knee-jerk xenophobia. I'm sure the last thing these free-thinkers would have wanted is for people to embrace Panzergirl's hatred and racism. Alas, it's France and not Canada.

You know I tend to be a little tired by the whole; "the real victims are the Muslim immigrants" when a Muslim immigrant or a group of Muslim immigrants murders or commit other crimes people. No the real victims are the people killed.

In fact I don't care about the Muslim world's feelings in all this, and the reason I don't care, is becaues in 2001 Bush bend backward not to blame Muslims as a group and people still didn't think it was enough (the hysterics over using the word crusade). They will find a way to blame the victims.

If Muslim immigrants in Europe don't want to be blame, they should do something not to be blame.

Yes I forgot the real victims in the whole Charlie Hebdo slaugther all those poor Muslims whose feelings got hurt. My heart goes out to them.

[Antonio the Sixth]

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties

That's actually not true at all. I encourage you to read Shari Berman's The Social Democratic Moment, it's an enlightening read (though the chapters on Germany are also soul-crushingly depressing).

[ingemann]

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties

That's actually not true at all. I encourage you to read Shari Berman's The Social Democratic Moment, it's an enlightening read (though the chapters on Germany are also soul-crushingly depressing).

You forget that the Nordic countries was not short of its incompetent politicians and they still came out on the top. The stable institution, the strong rule of law and the general stability, allowed the Nordic Social Democrats to use their large public support to gain power and imperial Germany shared those structures, so there are no reason that the Nordic countries wouldn't have served as model for the development of imperial Germany.

BTW thanks for the suggestion for reading material.

[Antonio the Sixth]

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties

That's actually not true at all. I encourage you to read Shari Berman's The Social Democratic Moment, it's an enlightening read (though the chapters on Germany are also soul-crushingly depressing).

You forget that the Nordic countries was not short of its incompetent politicians and they still came out on the top. The stable institution, the strong rule of law and the general stability, allowed the Nordic Social Democrats to use their large public support to gain power and imperial Germany shared those structures, so there are no reason that the Nordic countries wouldn't have served as model for the development of imperial Germany.

There is a material aspect to it but there is also a crucial ideological component to Nordic Social Democracy's success. They got their ideas right very soon, arguably by the end of the 19th century already. They were prepared to make a constructive use of political power before actually gaining it. Meanwhile in the 1920s the SPD was still struggling with Kautsky's pseudoscientific nonsense, and when they were handed essentially complete control of Germany's institutions they managed to alienate everybody.

[ingemann]

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties

That's actually not true at all. I encourage you to read Shari Berman's The Social Democratic Moment, it's an enlightening read (though the chapters on Germany are also soul-crushingly depressing).

You forget that the Nordic countries was not short of its incompetent politicians and they still came out on the top. The stable institution, the strong rule of law and the general stability, allowed the Nordic Social Democrats to use their large public support to gain power and imperial Germany shared those structures, so there are no reason that the Nordic countries wouldn't have served as model for the development of imperial Germany.

There is a material aspect to it but there is also a crucial ideological component to Nordic Social Democracy's success. They got their ideas right very soon, arguably by the end of the 19th century already. They were prepared to make a constructive use of political power before actually gaining it. Meanwhile in the 1920s the SPD was still struggling with Kautsky's pseudoscientific nonsense, and when they were handed essentially complete control of Germany's institutions they managed to alienate everybody.

But it wasn't like SPD couldn't be pragmatic, their support of the War, was primarily a pragmatic policy, no matter how stupid, short sighted and immoral it may look it hindsight (but let be honest here, the Nordic Social Democrats have their own skeletons in the closet).

[Antonio the Sixth]

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties

That's actually not true at all. I encourage you to read Shari Berman's The Social Democratic Moment, it's an enlightening read (though the chapters on Germany are also soul-crushingly depressing).

You forget that the Nordic countries was not short of its incompetent politicians and they still came out on the top. The stable institution, the strong rule of law and the general stability, allowed the Nordic Social Democrats to use their large public support to gain power and imperial Germany shared those structures, so there are no reason that the Nordic countries wouldn't have served as model for the development of imperial Germany.

There is a material aspect to it but there is also a crucial ideological component to Nordic Social Democracy's success. They got their ideas right very soon, arguably by the end of the 19th century already. They were prepared to make a constructive use of political power before actually gaining it. Meanwhile in the 1920s the SPD was still struggling with Kautsky's pseudoscientific nonsense, and when they were handed essentially complete control of Germany's institutions they managed to alienate everybody.

But it wasn't like SPD couldn't be pragmatic, their support of the War, was primarily a pragmatic policy, no matter how stupid, short sighted and immoral it may look it hindsight (but let be honest here, the Nordic Social Democrats have their own skeletons in the closet).

Oh yes obviously, but I don't think the issue was really about pragmatism vs. ideology. The SPD, in some ways, had the worst of both worlds. It operated under a theory that assumed that the exercise of power under a bourgeois State was essentially useless. Thus, because they lacked a theory on how to use their political power, they essentially went with the flow and just supported what seemed to make sense in the most shortsighted way possible. That's a form of pragmatism, but one which achieves absolutely nothing. On the other hand, the Swedish SAP was actually very ideological - but their ideology embraced the idea of using parliamentary power to improve the conditions of the working class.

[Lurker]

For reference:

Absolutely horrible. The cowards and terrorists behind this need to be shot or locked up forever.

However, at the same time, I hope (a futile hope, mind you) that people don't overreact respond with hatred, intolerance and mindless knee-jerk xenophobia. I'm sure the last thing these free-thinkers would have wanted is for people to embrace Panzergirl's hatred and racism. Alas, it's France and not Canada.

You know I tend to be a little tired by the whole; "the real victims are the Muslim immigrants" when a Muslim immigrant or a group of Muslim immigrants murders or commit other crimes people. No the real victims are the people killed.

In fact I don't care about the Muslim world's feelings in all this, and the reason I don't care, is becaues in 2001 Bush bend backward not to blame Muslims as a group and people still didn't think it was enough (the hysterics over using the word crusade). They will find a way to blame the victims.

If Muslim immigrants in Europe don't want to be blame, they should do something not to be blame.

Yes I forgot the real victims in the whole Charlie Hebdo slaugther all those poor Muslims whose feelings got hurt. My heart goes out to them.

I would guess the bolded part is what people reacted to - what does this actually mean?

[Türkisblau]

From what I've seen, FF.

[ingemann]

For reference:

Absolutely horrible. The cowards and terrorists behind this need to be shot or locked up forever.

However, at the same time, I hope (a futile hope, mind you) that people don't overreact respond with hatred, intolerance and mindless knee-jerk xenophobia. I'm sure the last thing these free-thinkers would have wanted is for people to embrace Panzergirl's hatred and racism. Alas, it's France and not Canada.

You know I tend to be a little tired by the whole; "the real victims are the Muslim immigrants" when a Muslim immigrant or a group of Muslim immigrants murders or commit other crimes people. No the real victims are the people killed.

In fact I don't care about the Muslim world's feelings in all this, and the reason I don't care, is becaues in 2001 Bush bend backward not to blame Muslims as a group and people still didn't think it was enough (the hysterics over using the word crusade). They will find a way to blame the victims.

If Muslim immigrants in Europe don't want to be blame, they should do something not to be blame.

Yes I forgot the real victims in the whole Charlie Hebdo slaugther all those poor Muslims whose feelings got hurt. My heart goes out to them.

I would guess the bolded part is what people reacted to - what does this actually mean?

Yes I guess it can have several meanings, but in the meaning I meant it, it's a suggestion for Islamic organisation in the West to react active on these acts. Condemn them, but also come with suggestion about what they themselves can do, to de-radicalise the extreme elements among them. Because this is not acts detached from the Muslim community as a whole, this is supported by a significant minority, you really don't get as common act of terror or so many foreign fighters from a "single demographic"* group, unless there's a relative broad groups sharing their views.

When you see most Islamic organisations reactions to this, they seem to see themselves as the real victims of this and mostly think this is sad because it hurt them. It's not a likable reaction, and it's doesn't make non-Muslim friendlier toward Muslims.

*European Muslims are not a single demographic group, but it is a identity marker.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Yes I guess it can have several meanings, but in the meaning I meant it, it's a suggestion for Islamic organisation in the West to react active on these acts.

they do.

if islamophobic jackasses don't listen, then that's their own fault.

[ingemann]

Yes I guess it can have several meanings, but in the meaning I meant it, it's a suggestion for Islamic organisation in the West to react active on these acts.

they do.

if islamophobic jackasses don't listen, then that's their own fault.

Well I guess your great argument have converted me praise Multi Kulti.

[Mr. Smith]

From what I've seen, FF.

Mostly because of politicus' reasoning. Most of what she said I've noticed.