Was unbanning Libertas the correct decision?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Yeah sure, why not? If you don't like his posts put him on ignore. Not that difficult.

I find the organized hate campaign against him because of like two posts he made much more offensive than anything he's done since his unbanning.

Yeah Bacon King said he was deleting all the posts I've made containing any references to sexual content on-sight... and he confirmed to me the only thing he deleted was that one story, which was intended to be a humorous anecdote and nothing more, and which I had already stated would be the last story I would share on Atlas Forum to avoid further unexpected controversy.

However certain people will keep repeating lies that I'm posting "sexually explicit" content all over the forum, like Snowstalker claiming that I've engaged in "obnoxiously slutty behavior" in the PAPOY thread, here is my "obnoxiously slutty" contribution to the PAPOY thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205070.msg4445097#msg4445097

I think the hope is that if they repeat the lies often enough all over the forum, the moderators/Nym will assume it must be true and reban me.

Anyone who looks through my actual posting history will find I've mostly just been active in Atlasia as a member of the Northeast Assembly, provided some analyses of some elections (including detailed analysis of the special election for Congress going on in my own district), shared links to a whole bunch of county maps I've made, etc.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Yeah sure, why not? If you don't like his posts put him on ignore. Not that difficult.

I find the organized hate campaign against him because of like two posts he made much more offensive than anything he's done since his unbanning.

Yeah Bacon King said he was deleting all the posts I've made containing any references to sexual content on-sight... and he confirmed to me the only thing he deleted was that one story, which was intended to be a humorous anecdote and nothing more, and which I had already stated would be the last story I would share on Atlas Forum to avoid further unexpected controversy.

However certain people will keep repeating lies that I'm posting "sexually explicit" content all over the forum, like Snowstalker claiming that I've engaged in "obnoxiously slutty behavior" in the PAPOY thread, here is my "obnoxiously slutty" contribution to the PAPOY thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205070.msg4445097#msg4445097

I don't think that's the real problem here. The problem is that you seem to retain your previous unnecessary belligerent attitude, overreacting to every little thing and creating more. The whole controversy would've be gone already had you simply ignored people bitching just for the bitching's sake.

Defending myself against lies is "belligerent"? There are certain posters who are going around claiming that I am posting "sexually explicit" content all over the forum, i.e. lying. Like Snowstalker claiming I engaged in "obnoxiously slutty behavior" on the PAPOY thread. Can you tell me what was "obnoxiously slutty" about my post in PAPOY?

If I remain silent, then mods/admins will keep running across these lies and assume they are true. Would you like it if certain people who just disliked you went all over the forum saying "Kalwejt has been posting pornography all over the forum! Ban him!" Why don't you tell the people who just dislike me and are determined to fabricate any reason to ban me to just stop telling lies about me. 

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Yeah sure, why not? If you don't like his posts put him on ignore. Not that difficult.

I find the organized hate campaign against him because of like two posts he made much more offensive than anything he's done since his unbanning.

Yeah Bacon King said he was deleting all the posts I've made containing any references to sexual content on-sight... and he confirmed to me the only thing he deleted was that one story, which was intended to be a humorous anecdote and nothing more, and which I had already stated would be the last story I would share on Atlas Forum to avoid further unexpected controversy.

However certain people will keep repeating lies that I'm posting "sexually explicit" content all over the forum, like Snowstalker claiming that I've engaged in "obnoxiously slutty behavior" in the PAPOY thread, here is my "obnoxiously slutty" contribution to the PAPOY thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205070.msg4445097#msg4445097

I don't think that's the real problem here. The problem is that you seem to retain your previous unnecessary belligerent attitude, overreacting to every little thing and creating more. The whole controversy would've be gone already had you simply ignored people bitching just for the bitching's sake.

Defending myself against lies is "belligerent"? There are certain posters who are going around claiming that I am posting "sexually explicit" content all over the forum, i.e. lying. Like Snowstalker claiming I engaged in "obnoxiously slutty behavior" on the PAPOY thread. Can you tell me what was "obnoxiously slutty" about my post in PAPOY?

If I remain silent, then mods/admins will keep running across these lies and assume they are true. Would you like it if certain people who just disliked you went all over the forum saying "Kalwejt has been posting pornography all over the forum! Ban him!" Why don't you tell the people who just dislike me and are determined to fabricate any reason to ban me to just stop telling lies about me. 

Unfortunately, you are not going to keep certain types from beating this thing like a proverbial dead horse. By reacting every time, you're only going to help to escalate the whole thing. They're baiting you and you're giving them exactly what the want. Eventually, the whole thing will dissipate, just don't help them keep it alive.

Also, I quite sure Nym or Dave wouldn't ban anybody because of some hearsay.

Well threads like this are not very helpful to that cause. I can't stop people like Snowstalker and Oakvale from making threads and posts about me in the hopes of getting me banned. The people who hate me and were gnashing their teeth at my unbanning were going to find some reason to attack, in this case they've decided to latch onto this notion that I'm a sexual "degenerate" guilty of posting "explicit sexual content" all over this "family friendly" forum, which is complete nonsense.

And it's offensive nonsense since many people will believe these claims when they come from long-time, popular, "respectable" posters like Oakvale- who used to be my friend when I was an actual HP but now obsessively wants me banned.

According to the current poll 46.7% of the forum believe I am guilty of bannable offenses in the less than 2 weeks that I've been back on the forum, which is absurd from any sort of objective POV. If 46.7% just don't like me, fine, but to say I have committed ban-worthy offenses is just hackishness.

Meanwhile I've heard from people who hated old Libertas, were initially against my unbanning, but have since PMed me to say they've changed their minds acknowledge that I've proven that I've changed for the better. If only all Atlasians were so objective and willing to let old grudges go.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Yeah sure, why not? If you don't like his posts put him on ignore. Not that difficult.

I find the organized hate campaign against him because of like two posts he made much more offensive than anything he's done since his unbanning.

Yeah Bacon King said he was deleting all the posts I've made containing any references to sexual content on-sight... and he confirmed to me the only thing he deleted was that one story, which was intended to be a humorous anecdote and nothing more, and which I had already stated would be the last story I would share on Atlas Forum to avoid further unexpected controversy.

However certain people will keep repeating lies that I'm posting "sexually explicit" content all over the forum, like Snowstalker claiming that I've engaged in "obnoxiously slutty behavior" in the PAPOY thread, here is my "obnoxiously slutty" contribution to the PAPOY thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205070.msg4445097#msg4445097

I don't think that's the real problem here. The problem is that you seem to retain your previous unnecessary belligerent attitude, overreacting to every little thing and creating more. The whole controversy would've be gone already had you simply ignored people bitching just for the bitching's sake.

Defending myself against lies is "belligerent"? There are certain posters who are going around claiming that I am posting "sexually explicit" content all over the forum, i.e. lying. Like Snowstalker claiming I engaged in "obnoxiously slutty behavior" on the PAPOY thread. Can you tell me what was "obnoxiously slutty" about my post in PAPOY?

If I remain silent, then mods/admins will keep running across these lies and assume they are true. Would you like it if certain people who just disliked you went all over the forum saying "Kalwejt has been posting pornography all over the forum! Ban him!" Why don't you tell the people who just dislike me and are determined to fabricate any reason to ban me to just stop telling lies about me. 

Unfortunately, you are not going to keep certain types from beating this thing like a proverbial dead horse. By reacting every time, you're only going to help to escalate the whole thing. They're baiting you and you're giving them exactly what the want. Eventually, the whole thing will dissipate, just don't help them keep it alive.

Also, I quite sure Nym or Dave wouldn't ban anybody because of some hearsay.

Well threads like this are not very helpful to that cause. I can't stop people like Snowstalker and Oakvale from making threads and posts about me in the hopes of getting me banned. The people who hate me and were gnashing their teeth at my unbanning were going to find some reason to attack, in this case they've decided to latch onto this notion that I'm a sexual "degenerate" guilty of posting "explicit sexual content" all over this "family friendly" forum, which is complete nonsense.

And it's offensive nonsense since many people will believe these claims when they come from long-time, popular, "respectable" posters like Oakvale- who used to be my friend when I was an actual HP but now obsessively wants me banned.

According to the current poll 46.7% of the forum believe I am guilty of bannable offenses in the less than 2 weeks that I've been back on the forum, which is absurd from any sort of objective POV. If 46.7% just don't like me, fine, but to say I have committed ban-worthy offenses is just hackishness.

Meanwhile I've heard from people who hated old Libertas, were initially against my unbanning, but have since PMed me to say they've changed their minds acknowledge that I've proven that I've changed for the better. If only all Atlasians were so objective and willing to let old grudges go.

I agree with Polnut that there's no organized witchhunt here. At most there are two or three people who loves to exxadurate. The whole thing was blown out of proportions and that can be annoying, but you should be above that.

I'm not saying this to attack you, since I was one of those supporting your return from the beggining. But some of your actions, such as making that Lief v. Oakvale poll, was quite unhelpful.

Well the Lief vs. Oakvale poll seemed like a good idea for a matchup since both are popular posters and have their own 'bases' of support on Atlas, despite having very different personalities, major difference in term of sense of humor, ideas about how the forum should be, etc. Other posters (particularly Oakvale himself) chose to try to make it all about me.

As I noted in that thread, Lief has always been one of my favorite posters even when I was a right-wing troll, and by twist of fate he has also been one of my strongest supporters since my unbanning. He is also a strong opebo supporter. Oakvale is the opposite of Lief in many ways, yet also remains popular. So it was a fair and competitive matchup.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Absolutely. The prudes are just jealous that their lives aren't as interesting.

I'm a prude now?  He's a cancer.  DIAF.

Yes.

And your other comments, calling me a "cancer" and telling another poster to "die in a fire" are completely inappropriate and utterly nasty. Grow up, old man.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I don't get this whole fedora thing?

I learned a lot about this whole underworld of misogynistic "PUA" (pick up artists) people, read some nonsense on a website called "Return of Kings", and then "wizardchan", a website for "incels", involuntary celibates who consider themselves wizards for being virgins and not having sex with women (both groups being deeply homophobic; besides railing against 'succubi', their term for women, they regularly bashed 'fags', of course their go-term for gays)...after that virgin rampage killer in California whose name escapes me at the moment.

But I love fedoras, I have a huge hat collection of fedoras, trilbies, bowler hats, pork pie hats, caps, berets, etc...how did fedoras get mixed up in that nonsense?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I think Libertas will be fine as long as he doesn't keep acting like the victim of some organised witchhunt.

It's funny you should say that, as I had him on ignore in both of his incarnations my only interaction with him was a fantasy politics case where he acted extraordinarily paranoid, as though he were being persecuted in a collaboration of all these separate people.

I did read a few of his recent stories, and found them amusing, but I think he has a very abrasive nature that does not seem to have mellowed.  I don't remember why he was banned, and I'd prefer to see contributors who wish to return be given a chance to do so.  But he certainly strikes me as someone who has not changed on a truly fundamental level.

The 'old' Libertas certainly had an abrasive nature, however I really am not getting where you are getting this idea that I am "abrasive" now, especially if you have me on ignore.

Likewise, how do I strike you as someone "someone who has not changed on a truly fundamental level" when you haven't interacted with me and you have me on ignore?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I think Libertas will be fine as long as he doesn't keep acting like the victim of some organised witchhunt.

It's funny you should say that, as I had him on ignore in both of his incarnations my only interaction with him was a fantasy politics case where he acted extraordinarily paranoid, as though he were being persecuted in a collaboration of all these separate people.

I did read a few of his recent stories, and found them amusing, but I think he has a very abrasive nature that does not seem to have mellowed.  I don't remember why he was banned, and I'd prefer to see contributors who wish to return be given a chance to do so.  But he certainly strikes me as someone who has not changed on a truly fundamental level.

The 'old' Libertas certainly had an abrasive nature, however I really am not getting where you are getting this idea that I am "abrasive" now, especially if you have me on ignore.

Likewise, how do I strike you as someone "someone who has not changed on a truly fundamental level" when you haven't interacted with me and you have me on ignore?

Note... "had".

He said he had me on ignore in both of my 'incarnations', which means he has had me on ignore both as the 'old' Libertas and the 'new' Libertas who has only been here 2 weeks. He doesn't say anywhere that he took me off ignore, and even he had, we've had zero interaction with each other.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I don't think I 're-ignored' you.  It must have been the default setting when your account was unbanned.  Anyway, the context of my post (and I could have been more clear) is that I began reading your posts a few days ago, so for example, I think I read the stories of a sexual nature that some of the other posters are disparaging.  I found them amusing, personally.

Just as I had read these, I stumbled upon your response here and thought less of you, both for using all caps and then not plainly asking a question of some kind.  And you never cook.  That's disgraceful. 

LOL well perhaps I was being too harsh in saying NEVER. When I have a hangover, I do make eggs for the cysteine to help break down the alcohol ASAP. I do know how to boil pasta and even make a filetto di pomodoro sauce. Though I only eat whole wheat pasta these days. But when I was at college I couldn't cook (besides using a dorm room microwave) and was on a meal plan with college dining facilities, and now that I'm living at home again my mother cooks and she would not want me cooking in her kitchen. The only time I've ever cooked regularly was when I studied abroad in Rome, Italy and had a very nice appartamento in Trastevere with a full kitchen, and no cafeteria to go to nor mother to cook for me, but a grocery store right next door, so I was forced to learn how to cook some basic food items or else spend every last euro I had on dining out. (Though the kebab place right next to our apartment was my cheap 'fast food' option there when I was too lazy to cook, I still miss my piatto falafel and panino kebab!). I wish I had more culinary abilities though.

Anyway I did ask an indirect question, as Retromike answered below.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Libertas, did the events of your story cause you mental anguish? That was not my interpretation of your narrative.

Well I was never given the chance to discuss my own feelings, then and now, about my experiences with that guy. It was a rather multilayered complex story about experiences with a complicated individual, and I certainly spent a lot of time thinking about him and the whole situation while on dates with him, debating whether to go on another date with him, and in retrospect now that it's all in the past. Unfortunately certain simpletons just zeroed in on the "eww gay people engage in sexual activity?" suggestion as part of their campaign to ban me, so the whole story has been disappeared from the forum, and I'm hesitant to go into further detail about a story that was a source of such controversy. My original intention to follow up the second 'chapter' of that story with more detail about what was going on in my own head was obviously 86ed in light of the controversy.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

However certain people will keep repeating lies that I'm posting "sexually explicit" content all over the forum, like Snowstalker claiming that I've engaged in "obnoxiously slutty behavior" in the PAPOY thread, here is my "obnoxiously slutty" contribution to the PAPOY thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=205070.msg4445097#msg4445097

Snowstalker would prefer that all gay men posting in that thread adorn full burka before taking photos of themselves.

The only thing notable about those pics of Libertas is that he's kind of posing like girls often do in selfies.  I'm irritated that Snow would call that "slutty". 

Has your leftism been relegated to economic matters, dude?

I certainly didn't intentionally strike a "girly" pose in my selfies, I just liked those poses. But if my poses do in fact resemble the way girls often pose in selfies, and Snowstalker considers my pics to be "obnoxiously slutty", then all I can say is wow, that's pretty awful and misogynistic.

There seems to be a subtle yet consistent anti-LGBTQ strain running through most of the criticism of me.

Now my selfies aren't manly enough, instead of looking like a manly man, I look like some "obnoxiously slutty" girl.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

lol, BK and Gustaf have made plenty of posts about their sex lives...

stop your homophobic trolling SS

Well sure, but nothing about vomiting on their partner.

You've vomited on your partner? I thought you just said you were a virgin?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

lol, BK and Gustaf have made plenty of posts about their sex lives...

stop your homophobic trolling SS

Well sure, but nothing about vomiting on their partner.

You've vomited on your partner? I thought you just said you were a virgin?

What the hell are you talking about? Why do you have time to flirt with a slack-jawed Clevelander and have orgies with Broadway extras but not to read a post?

Some are extras, some are pretty established and well-known names in the world of Broadway theatre whom I've seen perform on stage in significant roles. Having never even been given a role not even as an extra on a Broadway play (and I am sure neither have you), I consider myself lucky to be 'in' among talented and attractive people. Ugly people don't tend to succeed in acting careers.

Hence one of the reasons for the strict "clothes-checking rule" upon entering and the relative darkness of the rooms- stringent protections against any photographic evidence as to who is in attendance at any given party.

One reason I enjoy those parties is simply out of historical curiosity for an old New York City long gone by in the post-Giuliani/Bloomberg era, a city where graffiti covered the subway cars and Times Square was filled with sex shops and peep shows and prostitutes on every corner. In truth I would probably be disgusted by old Times Square, but getting to experience just a little adult fun in the Disneyland that is 2014/2015 Times Square in a safe 21st century version appeals to my inner sense of curiosity for gritty old NYC.

But my only mention of these orgies was in my intro thread among my list of flaws (along with gambling that has left me thousands in debt and a drug addiction problem which probably is at the root of where all the gambling and sexual promiscuity came from since I'm naturally a very shy and reserved person.)

I would very much prefer to find someone to fall in love with and to cuddle with, I don't even need sex.

Also insulting Adam Fitzgerald as a "slack-jawed Clevelander" because he and I made obvious jokes about being roommates together is lame and uncalled for, and you should apologize to him. There is something wrong with a bit of harmless fun between two posters in the same age group joking about being roommates? That's what you consider flirting?  And btw, if you're really straight, who are you to judge the attractiveness of his jawline? Adam has both beauty and brains and will easily find a loving boyfriend. Whatever your true orientation is, I doubt you will find a girlfriend/boyfriend or any sort of partner with your bad attitude.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

The longer this argument goes on the more inclined I am to take Libertas's side. At this point it's difficult for me not to think he's being held to a different standard than somebody straighter or more conventionally masculine would be.

Going way back to when I joined back in '09, I remember discussions of one's sexual exploits were pretty much non-controversial, as evidenced by the BK post quoted above...as long as they were of the hetero nature.

In my uber-controversial story, not only did I admit to engaging in sexual activity with another man, I also made it obvious that I played the passive, submissive, "womanly" role in that activity.

So we have people who would loudly proclaim to be feminists and vehemently deny being homophobic or transphobic in any way (since gender clearly plays a role in this too) nevertheless attacking me and acting all disgusted because I'm a male-bodied person who played a "womanly" role and failed to "act like a man".

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

The longer this argument goes on the more inclined I am to take Libertas's side. At this point it's difficult for me not to think he's being held to a different standard than somebody straighter or more conventionally masculine would be.

Going way back to when I joined back in '09, I remember discussions of one's sexual exploits were pretty much non-controversial, as evidenced by the BK post quoted above...as long as they were of the hetero nature.

In my uber-controversial story, not only did I admit to engaging in sexual activity with another man, I also made it obvious that I played the passive, submissive, "womanly" role in that activity.

So we have people who would loudly proclaim to be feminists and vehemently deny being homophobic or transphobic in any way (since gender clearly plays a role in this too) nevertheless attacking me and acting all disgusted because I'm a male-bodied person who played a "womanly" role and failed to "act like a man".

I never said this.

You didn't have to.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

The longer this argument goes on the more inclined I am to take Libertas's side. At this point it's difficult for me not to think he's being held to a different standard than somebody straighter or more conventionally masculine would be.

That's just nonsense, and it's disappointing that you'd buy into Libertas's frantic spin. What could be more absurdly masculine than attending anonymous orgies? I'd also reiterate how gross it is that Libertas is attempting to frame his attention-seeking posts about his private life as a natural expression of his sexual identity. If I was gay/etc. I'd be pretty offended by that strategy and the assumptions it makes.

Anyway, whatever Snowstalker's arguing, it's obvious that Libertas hasn't changed - and thus should not have been unbanned! - because his ridiculously belligerent, humourless personality remains as evident as ever. Witness as evidence the verbose, infuriated responses to every single post, to say nothing of the delusional notion that the Forces of Evil are united against him, and Libertas, the innocent victim of an orchestrated campaign of lies (remember when he compared himself to George McGovern running against Nixon?), stands alone, heroically fighting. But I guess he's adopted the "correct" political views now, so it's all fine. Whatever.

As a postscript, the irony here is that both Snowstalker and Libertas have a pathetic adolescent nostalgia for the "gritty" New York City of the '70s.

One of us here is humorless, Oakvale, but it isn't me, old friend.

Also I think Madeline and I both have a better grasp of LGBTQ issues regarding both sexual orientation and gender identity/expectations than you do...perhaps try checking your privilege?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

I don't understand why people have nostalgia for NYC in the 1970s. I get nostalgia for previous decades (of course), but the 70s? Due to the property booms of that general era it was actually in the 1970s that bohemia was finally priced out of its historic haunts in Manhattan. I guess that it might seem odd that this happened at the same time as urban blight got worse and crime spiraled out of control (the bizarre idea that this is ever a good thing is screamingly, nay, howlingly, bourgeois. In certain circles nothing gives away a trust fund and a private education quite as reliably as a hard-on for for urban misery), but that was the 70s for you. Same thing happened in a lot of other big cities. Bizarre decade that one, and that's before we consider the clothes...

I don't have nostalgia for an era I never lived through, and I would not wish to live in 1970s New York. Thankfully lead was banned from American fuel in the 70s leading to the eventual drop in crime that happened to coincide with the Giuliani years. However Times Square was basically turned from an adult playground into a children's playground, while Manhattan as a whole was turned into a playground for the wealthy and tourists by Bloomberg. In the process NYC has lost a lot of the 'edge' it once had, so I do seek out vestiges of what once made NYC a unique, edgy, 'adult' destination. I don't think parties involving consenting adults engaging in sexual behavior were what made 1970s NYC an unpleasant place to live.

When I told my psychologist about my 'orgy' parties, he compared it to the old Plato's Retreat swingers club of the late 70s/early 80s (except a gay version of course). There is nothing wrong with a little sexual exploration.

And besides, I am a Classics major; despite not having practiced any of the languages I've studied in years, Latin remains my strongest non-English language. The ancient Romans were quite famous for their orgy parties, so it was also like experiencing the ancient Rome I studied firsthand.

Snowstalker is not even a New Yorker, so I'm not sure why he has nostalgia for 1970s New York.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

What Oakvale said is more or less right. I don't give a f**k about Libertas' new political views and think it's transparently shallow that so many people are now defending the guy just because he came back, with nothing else to show for his alleged personal evolution other than "hey guys, I'm a liberal now! and I've been checking my privilege so hard!" and then a bunch of people here started eating it up. Libertas' general behavior is no less disruptive, his attitude no less unhinged, than it ever was before, and if he hadn't made some transformation to generic young gay leftist I would wager half the people that are defending him wouldn't be either.

Even the thought process that led to his unbanning continues to elude me. Like, why? Did someone on the team just wake up one day and feel like unbanning someone so they just threw a dart at the wall? Even if we're going to accept the idea behind unbanning people (which I don't, it seems completely pointless, there is no net-gain here) why him, of all people?

And all the accusations of bigotry and prudery are so ridiculous at this point so as to not even be worth responding to. You do a disservice to the weight behind those words by using them so wantonly.

I've never said "hey guys I'm a liberal now", nor is my change in political outlook the reason why I sought to be unbanned. Abandoning libertarianism and becoming active in local Democratic politics was part of my organic political growth as I aged and graduated from college.

While you and Oakvale might still hate me for whatever reason, to pretend that I am the same old 'bad' Libertas with a red avatar is nonsense, and many posters old and new appreciate what I contribute to the forum now.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

"Creepy" and "socially awkward" are better terms than "grooming." Can you imagine if Adam were a woman? Retromike would have been banned instantly.

I don't know what the story is between Adam and Retromike, other than that the 3 of us have joked about becoming roommates together.

I'm 24, Adam is 20, I don't think there is anything 'creepy' about us joking around like that. The half-plus-seven rule for a 24-year-old like myself is 12+7=19, which makes 20-year-old Adam a year older than the acceptable minimum age for dating, but we're not dating, all we've done is joke about being roommates over the internet. (Yeah Adam and I have called each other "cute", but I still can't imagine that being seen as 'creepy' although maybe some might cringe at the corniness)

I do think Snowstalker should apologize to Adam for describing him as "slack-jawed" in this thread. Having become friends with him, I think Adam is an intelligent 20-year-old young man who is nice to everybody and doesn't deserve to be insulted like that.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

No.

Not because I care about the sex stories or whatever. Libertas needs to get a Xanax prescription and relax. He defends himself against his detractors like he's on trial or something.

Um yeah that's about the complete opposite of what I need right now.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

He definitely has the potential to be a good poster, but right now he just comes off as self-centered (and the whole retromike-fitzgerald-libertas thing is super creepy and should stop).

You have not seen his original incarnation. Other than now being politically and sexually agreeable to Atlas he has not significantly changed.

Um, neither have you.

And the few who have who are criticizing me in this thread claiming I haven't changed either are simply absurd (Oakvale was friendly toward the 'original incarnation' of me, not one of the people calling for my head when I actually deserved it) or people who personally hated me then and still hold a grudge (Marokai).

Meanwhile I have heard from people who hated the 'original incarnation' of me for being a trollish asshole, were against my unbanning fearing I was the same old Libertas, but who have recognized that I have really changed and welcomed me to the forum.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

No.

Not because I care about the sex stories or whatever. Libertas needs to get a Xanax prescription and relax. He defends himself against his detractors like he's on trial or something.

There are some posters here who are obsessed with putting him on trial before the moderators to get him rebanned. They need to chill out  (no prescription necessary) and give Libertas a chance.

Yeah I love how certain posters are acting like I'm some sort of paranoid nut who is only imagining being on trial and acting as if I am defending myself against voices that only exist in my head while everyone here is actually being oh-so-welcoming.

Um, hello? Do you see what the name of the thread you're posting in is? Having a thread asking whether I should be permanently banned (and slanted in favor of the notion that I should be banned) is as close to being on 'trial' as one could get on an internet forum. So yeah I'm going to defend myself since I really don't think I've done anything to warrant banning, yet currently 42.9% of forum posters believe I have.

Also I have a low tolerance for people who jokingly or mockingly say "go get a Xanax prescription and relax" due to my personal experience with drug addiction which I've acknowledged multiple times on the forum. Xanax is not a punchline to a joke.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Anyway on the topic of NYC/Times Square in the 70s/80s, I ran across this video:

Youtube | Times Square of the 1980's: A Short Documentary

It really isn't anything I would ever describe as a documentary...but I really like the song and the creepy little man that appear a few seconds after the 2:40 mark. From the lyrics, the song is about old 70s/80s 42nd street and the "junkies and the flunkies" who occupied it, but does anyone know what the name of the song is and who sings it/created it?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Proposal: everybody just f**kin abandon this thread and move on.

Ya I think I'm pretty much sick and tired of defending myself against lame and ridiculous charges of "trolling" or claims that I haven't changed...all of which are coming from people who just don't like me on a personal level.

On the other hand, I would like to start a thread on the tangent of a topic we went off on in this thread with regard to NYC/Times Square in the 1970s and 1980s, perhaps when I get home from work today. I've done quite a bit of reading and studying up on the era, along with enjoying fun, intriguing, or sometimes eerily disturbing videos and pictures, as well as the stories I've heard from my parents and grandparents who lived through it, and it is a fascinating time/place I would like to visit, even if I have to wear a bulletproof vest to survive it.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Proposal: everybody just f**kin abandon this thread and move on.

Ya I think I'm pretty much sick and tired of defending myself against lame and ridiculous charges of "trolling" or claims that I haven't changed...all of which are coming from people who just don't like me on a personal level.

On the other hand, I would like to start a thread on the tangent of a topic we went off on in this thread with regard to NYC/Times Square in the 1970s and 1980s, perhaps when I get home from work today. I've done quite a bit of reading and studying up on the era, along with enjoying fun, intriguing, or sometimes eerily disturbing videos and pictures, as well as the stories I've heard from my parents and grandparents who lived through it, and it is a fascinating time/place I would like to visit, even if I have to wear a bulletproof vest to survive it.

While Times Square has certainly changed, there is no shortage of seedy urban neighborhoods today. I'm not familiar enough with NYC to name a specific neighborhood (somewhere in the South Bronx, surely?) I guarantee it's out there. Finding it is half the adventure.

I don't think people who have nostalgia for the 'grittiness' and 'character' of pre-Giuliani NYC have that nostalgia over the high crime rates that happened to exist in the NYC of that era because we are all sadists who want to be mugged, raped, stabbed, or murdered.

It's the excitement, not the crime.

Certainly, as you mention, there are plenty of relatively high-crime places to go. Though I think even the Bronx is gentrifying. Certainly even the uppermost reaches of Manhattan are now safe for white gentrification. I remember going on a date with a guy, we met at a bar in Hell's Kitchen, "Vlada" I think the name was, where there was a free drag show (I hardly remember because as usual I drank too much, I said I would only stick to beer, but after a few beers I relented and had to try one of the speciality homemade flavored vodkas they had on display behind the bar in some sort of peach martini cocktail), then at 3am we took a long subway ride (I sat on his lap and we made out the whole time, but it still was like an eternal subway ride) up to his apartment in Washington Heights, we got off at like 175th street or something, or maybe that's where his apartment was, I don't remember. I was drunk and in his arms so I wasn't concerned about crime that night as we walked to his apartment. For whatever reason he keeps his TV on mute all the time and I got no sleep, up all night watching Seinfeld reruns without the voice. The next morning I stumbled out of there tired as hell with an incredible hangover, but I never felt unsafe as I wandered to and fro trying to find a damn subway station, any subway station, to embark upon the incredibly long and boring journey all the way down to South Ferry or Bowling Green (I don't remember exactly which train I ended up taking.) The neighborhood was diverse and vibrant, but I think even up there prices are starting to climb rapidly. (This guy lived in a shared apartment where he had one bedroom, which is why we had to be extremely quiet.)

Meanwhile there are parts of Staten Island, on the North Shore, especially the northwestern part (like Mariners' Harbor and Arlington, which are about 98% black and poor, no gentrification there) where going there is just asking to be shot. The latest trend that's attracted attention from that neighborhood are some lowlifes ordering Chinese food delivery just so they can murder the deliverymen. Pizza joints stopped delivering to those neighborhoods decades ago, now Chinese take out places won't deliver there either.

But nobody wants to go there just because it's "seedy" or because it has high crime rates. There's nothing exciting or vibrant about those neighborhoods.

Similarly nobody idolizes pre-Giuliani NYC because of high crime rates but rather the loss of excitement. Crime would have fallen anyway, just like it did in every other major city in the world. But turning Times Square into a G-rated tourist Disneyland where you're more likely to hear people with Southern drawls or speaking Swedish than you are to hear a New York accent was not an inevitability. I'm surprised Bloomberg didn't squeeze a WalMart in the 'new' Times Square to make the 'locals' there feel at home.  

And the New York accent really is under serious attack, especially in Manhattan where it's nearly been eradicated except among African-Americans and their own variation of the NY accent, thank to the invasion of Manhattan by the super-rich. Nowadays if you hear someone speaking with a New York accent you might as well just ask "which of the 4 boroughs are you from?".