Pope Francis attacks SSM
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« on: January 16, 2015, 06:11:57 PM »

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/pope_francis_says_gay_marriage_threatens_to_disfigure_god_s_plan

Was not expecting this, given his previous concillatory statements toward gays...
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politicus
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 06:13:21 PM »


Why put this on USG?

But yes, at bit surprising. It seemed like an issue he wanted to tone down.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 06:58:37 PM »

Pope is Catholic. More at 11. Also source is biased and hyperbolic; again cherrypicking.

Wrong section.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 07:01:23 PM »


Why put this on USG?

But yes, at bit surprising. It seemed like an issue he wanted to tone down.

All of the Holy Father's comments on gays have emphasised that marriage is and shall remain the unitive and procreative union of a man and woman.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 07:08:36 PM »

This is kind of why I never got why progressives have fawned all over him on this issue.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 07:10:13 PM »

It's still a shock if not a surprise. People knew that doctrine hadn't changed, that the Pope wasn't going to support SSM, but it still surprises to hear him make the case against SSM. It's totally different from "Who am I to judge?" in tone even if consistent in substance.
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Alcon
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2015, 07:10:31 PM »
« Edited: January 16, 2015, 07:34:22 PM by Grad Students are the Worst »

Pope is Catholic. More at 11. Also source is biased and hyperbolic; again cherrypicking.

Wrong section.

His quote is hyperbolic, unless it's mistranslated.  "Ideological colonization that we have to be careful about that is trying to destroy the family"?  There's not the faintest hint of compassion or understanding here.  It's entirely political rhetoric, reflects no interest or recognition of the actual motivations of the cause, and is the sort of thing he's normally been good at avoiding.

You're playing Press Secretary here a little much, bro.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2015, 07:11:23 PM »

This is kind of why I never got why progressives have fawned all over him on this issue.
Because he's stepped away, as we all should, from the usual catholic mantra of "You can't go to church/follow god/etc. if you're gay."
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badgate
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2015, 07:17:53 PM »

He is the figurehead of a crumbling mythology still purported as religion. Bless his heart.
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SWE
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2015, 07:32:17 PM »

SSM and religion are only issues in the United States
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politicus
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2015, 07:38:50 PM »


Joke?
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2015, 08:11:01 PM »

Pope is Catholic. More at 11. Also source is biased and hyperbolic; again cherrypicking.

Wrong section.

His quote is hyperbolic, unless it's mistranslated.  "Ideological colonization that we have to be careful about that is trying to destroy the family"?  There's not the faintest hint of compassion or understanding here.  It's entirely political rhetoric, reflects no interest or recognition of the actual motivations of the cause, and is the sort of thing he's normally been good at avoiding.

You're playing Press Secretary here a little much, bro.
Your description of Pope Frank's argument makes it seem as though he doesn't agree in spirit with his argument, so he took the most generic church line on the subject possible to thinly veil his distaste.  Or perhaps I am being to kind to the Pope?
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memphis
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2015, 08:16:07 PM »

Perhaps Papa should be on the lookout for a punch. It's totally understandable, n'est-ce pas?
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Alcon
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2015, 08:19:13 PM »

Pope is Catholic. More at 11. Also source is biased and hyperbolic; again cherrypicking.

Wrong section.

His quote is hyperbolic, unless it's mistranslated.  "Ideological colonization that we have to be careful about that is trying to destroy the family"?  There's not the faintest hint of compassion or understanding here.  It's entirely political rhetoric, reflects no interest or recognition of the actual motivations of the cause, and is the sort of thing he's normally been good at avoiding.

You're playing Press Secretary here a little much, bro.
Your description of Pope Frank's argument makes it seem as though he doesn't agree in spirit with his argument, so he took the most generic church line on the subject possible to thinly veil his distaste.  Or perhaps I am being to kind to the Pope?

Eh, he may genuinely believe that they are "trying to destroy the family," but I doubt it.  I also don't think he intentionally spoke in a disingenuous way.  I think he was basically just saying that the things they're trying to do are destroying the family, but said it poorly, and ended up sounding antagonistic toward well-intentioned people.  But that sort of unnecessary antagonism is the sort he's been really good at avoiding.  I think he slipped here -- not misspoke, but missed an opportunity to keep up his admirable record of being universally compassionate, even when he disagrees with something.

Hope that makes sense.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2015, 08:22:24 PM »

Even as someone who agrees with what he had to say about the other big thing he weighed in on recently, I have to say that this has not been a good couple of days for the Pope.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2015, 08:22:49 PM »

As I've said a hundred times, JPII>>>>Francis. (I don't hate Francis whatsoever despite constantly disagreeing with him - I can only hope that isn't blasphemous.)
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2015, 08:26:29 PM »

As I've said a hundred times, JPII>>>>Francis. (I don't hate Francis whatsoever despite constantly disagreeing with him - I can only hope that isn't blasphemous.)

By what conceivable measure is it possible to say that John Paul II was better on this subject?
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2015, 08:41:21 PM »

As I've said a hundred times, JPII>>>>Francis. (I don't hate Francis whatsoever despite constantly disagreeing with him - I can only hope that isn't blasphemous.)

By what conceivable measure is it possible to say that John Paul II was better on this subject?

Oh not this subject of course, but as a whole, Francis feels the need to inject commentary on every economic subject as well. You may like that quite a bit more as a Democrat, but I can't stand the need for major theatrics chastising us for things he has little business talking about. And the rhetoric can be really far left sometimes.

SSM was the one advantage he distinctly held in that showdown, and it hasn't seemed to last.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2015, 08:44:08 PM »

As I've said a hundred times, JPII>>>>Francis. (I don't hate Francis whatsoever despite constantly disagreeing with him - I can only hope that isn't blasphemous.)

     It's only blasphemous if you deny his authority on matters of faith. Also, maybe this will disabuse people of the notion that Pope Francis is some friend of the left, or that the Catholic Church cares what they think.
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2015, 08:44:42 PM »

As I've said a hundred times, JPII>>>>Francis. (I don't hate Francis whatsoever despite constantly disagreeing with him - I can only hope that isn't blasphemous.)

By what conceivable measure is it possible to say that John Paul II was better on this subject?

Oh not this subject of course, but as a whole, Francis feels the need to inject commentary on every economic subject as well. You may like that quite a bit more as a Democrat, but I can't stand the need for major theatrics chastising us for things he has little business talking about. And the rhetoric can be really far left sometimes.

SSM was the one advantage he distinctly held in that showdown, and it hasn't seemed to last.

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2015, 09:25:17 PM »

I've read the transcript, and I think y'all are over-reacting, primarily because in the SSM issue, one of the arguments that is often made here in the US is that allowing it would somehow destroy the family.  Problem is, a comment that there are aspects of modern society that are antithetical to family life covers far more subjects than SSM, including subjects that I would think would be far more relevant to a Philippine audience than same-sex marriage.  We've gotten so accustomed to living in a society that treats marriage as little more than a revocable legal contract that we tend to focus on SSM as if that's the only thing a traditionalist might object to when it comes to the enervation of the family.
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2015, 09:39:43 AM »

He has previously describe gay marriage as the work of Satan, so it's hard to see why people are surprised/dissapointed by this. A terrible view of course (and probably very offensive to the countless homosexuals who have fought for equal rights), but one that is to be totally expected from the Catholic Church.
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politicus
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2015, 09:43:46 AM »
« Edited: January 17, 2015, 10:02:33 AM by Charlotte Hebdo »

He has previously describe gay marriage as the work of Satan, so it's hard to see why people are surprised/dissapointed by this. A terrible view of course (and probably very offensive to the countless homosexuals who have fought for equal rights), but one that is to be totally expected from the Catholic Church.

The surprising thing is not that he has that view, but that he emphatized it so relatively strongly. It seemed he was trying to tone down the anti-gay sentiment and lay low on the gay marriage issue.

Being in the Phillippines may have influenced his choice of words, but they obviously knew that Western media would pick up on this. While the Catholic church has strongly felt theolgically based opinions on this they also know it is a losing issue in the West (and parts of Latin America) and there is a political dimension to the issue as well.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2015, 10:39:13 AM »

It is a "winning issue" in many, many other parts of the world, though, particularly where the Church is seeing growth.
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politicus
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2015, 11:03:41 AM »

It is a "winning issue" in many, many other parts of the world, though, particularly where the Church is seeing growth.

Sure, but the Western world is central to financing the church  + Europeans are massively overrepresented in church leadership - my impression is that while they want to expand in Africa/Asia there was a genuine attempt to tone down some of the most divisive social issues (though of course not abortion) in order to stop or delay the bleeding in Western countries.
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