Challenging the notion that Vermont was always left wing
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  Challenging the notion that Vermont was always left wing
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Author Topic: Challenging the notion that Vermont was always left wing  (Read 4235 times)
OpinionatedGuy
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2015, 08:38:14 PM »

Vermont has always been anti-Southern

Anti-Southern =/= left wing.  It has, throughout history, coincided with for people's basic rights.

It doesn't mean "right-wing" either, you can't put stuff like that in the context of modern American political terms like "right-wing" and "left-wing".
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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2015, 08:44:23 PM »

LGBT issues have the appearance of being a left/right issue in modern times due to the generational gap in the bases of the two parties. Of course the older generation is more inclined towards the traditional view and on most other issues, the Republican Party caters to them as well.

Among Republicans under 50, a majority have supported for a couple years now. I don't know the exact percentage difference between parties adjusted for age, but it can't be more than 20-25%. That sounds like a lot, but in this polarized country, it really isn't for something that is such a divisive issue that people are indoctrinated into by just agreeing with whatever politicians on their side support. It's hard to believe but among all Democrats just 5 years ago, it still didn't poll majority support (and had virtually no support among Republicans). The gain is almost completely generational, and once it gained the initial steam the middle age bracket began "getting with the times".

I believe for a younger age group of Republicans, I've seen it poll in the high 60s recently. 18-33 ruralites alone were in the low 60s so suburban Republicans should easily increase that.

Many kudos to the liberals for picking up the issue first - they entire party once had a 40 point advantage in supporting it (when no Republicans supported it), but factor in how liberal those who started voting in the early 00's are due to Iraq and the fact that it seems natural for all youngs to support it based on the youngs who vote against Obama massively supporting it and there is a bit of coincidence in why one ideology embraced it. No doubt a good deal of middle aged Democrats began embracing it because of the youth in their party whereas Republicans failed to due to the lack of youngs, but I don't think you can fault those people for basically aligning themselves with their partisan platform basically given to them. That's not due to homophobia as it is with olds because they are embracing it now.

Of course, LGBTQA issues extend far beyond gay marriage - an issue largely resolved at this point. It will be interesting to see if young Republicans are not afraid to be activists further. They could be merely tolerant. I don't think that's the case because there is an obvious outright support. (A great deal of pro-gay marriage homophobes exist, and they are the worst types of people, but I don't think it's enough to dent the polls.) When the left continues to be activists, it would be in the vein of sexual liberation. I don't know what the next goal would be for the right - perhaps just complete acceptance of every aspect of the individual and showing sensitivity to the desires of the community. Judging by Facebook, the religious right even seems to come around with their absolutely horrible "Hate the sin, Love the sinner" trash. There's definitely more room for acceptance to grow with that ever shrinking crowd. They could also focus on opposing the left by strengthening the family unit (though that's hardly right-wing by itself) so long as they continue their act of acceptance.
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freepcrusher
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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2015, 08:54:15 PM »

the state was probably somewhat more conservative but it was never a conservative state. Guys like Flanders or Aiken were never particularly conservative. The closest thing one could get to a conservative was Winston Prouty.
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2015, 09:01:55 PM »

Vermont has always been anti-Southern

Anti-Southern =/= left wing.  It has, throughout history, coincided with for people's basic rights.

It doesn't mean "right-wing" either, you can't put stuff like that in the context of modern American political terms like "right-wing" and "left-wing".

I completely agree.
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hopper
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« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2015, 10:27:23 PM »

I don't know before 1992 maybe the state might not have been left-wing but VT has always been Moderate to Liberal on social issues(like Jeffords was) but it was Moderate to even a bit conservative fiscally like Jeffords was as well. 1992+ the state really went to the left fiscally like developing a single-payer health care system which has failed over the last couple years. I feel weird saying "Vermont went to the left fiscally" because the state did have a Republican Governor (Jim Douglas) for most of the 2000's. Douglass wasn't a Liberal Republican he was more of a Moderate to Conservative Northern Republican(think Gerald Ford) type both socially and fiscally.

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Libertarian Socialist Dem
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« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2015, 04:47:52 AM »

Vermont has always been anti-Southern

Anti-Southern =/= left wing.  It has, throughout history, coincided with for people's basic rights.

It doesn't mean "right-wing" either, you can't put stuff like that in the context of modern American political terms like "right-wing" and "left-wing".

I completely agree.

I don't know that culturally old school rural Vermonters were necesserily all that different from rural southerners. Maybe culturally appalachian.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2015, 03:45:50 PM »

Vermont has always been anti-Southern

Anti-Southern =/= left wing.  It has, throughout history, coincided with for people's basic rights.

It doesn't mean "right-wing" either, you can't put stuff like that in the context of modern American political terms like "right-wing" and "left-wing".

I completely agree.

I don't know that culturally old school rural Vermonters were necesserily all that different from rural southerners. Maybe culturally appalachian.

We've pretty well established that ancestral Vermonters are pro-civil rights libertarians.  That's basically the exact opposite of ancestral rural Southerners.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2015, 06:15:10 PM »
« Edited: January 31, 2015, 06:19:26 PM by PR »

Because if there's one thing that the moralistic, civic-minded supporters (if not creators) of America's strongest public institutions (a process which began in the 17th century as New England was being colonized by an English Calvinist/Dissenter culture-on in which religion was not separate from politics) were, it was "libertarian."

No doubt that is why their descendants took a "libertarian" position on civil rights.

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VPH
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« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2015, 09:22:11 PM »

I think though that starting with the New Deal era the Democrats were by and large the more left-leaning party as they absorbed all of the progressives and the south was more of a political outlier then anything, though southern Democrats were pretty divided on economic issues.

As for Vermont, my grandmother is a native Vermonter and a lifelong Republican and I think that there political culture was conservative in the same way that the great plains states were and just changed not so much due to the GOP moving right but because of hippies moving there. Maybe in another timeline Kansas would have become liberal if a bunch of hippie farmers had moved there and Kansas City and Topeka became counter-cultural meccas.
Man, I wish that had happened to Kansas
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2015, 11:11:19 AM »

Vermont has always been anti-Southern

Anti-Southern =/= left wing.  It has, throughout history, coincided with for people's basic rights.

It doesn't mean "right-wing" either, you can't put stuff like that in the context of modern American political terms like "right-wing" and "left-wing".

I completely agree.

I don't know that culturally old school rural Vermonters were necesserily all that different from rural southerners. Maybe culturally appalachian.

Is this "all rural people look alike to me"? Tongue
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TDAS04
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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2015, 01:58:12 PM »

Vermont has always been anti-Southern

Anti-Southern =/= left wing.  It has, throughout history, coincided with for people's basic rights.

It doesn't mean "right-wing" either, you can't put stuff like that in the context of modern American political terms like "right-wing" and "left-wing".

I completely agree.

I don't know that culturally old school rural Vermonters were necesserily all that different from rural southerners. Maybe culturally appalachian.

No.
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