The Wrestling Thread

[Dr. Cynic]

So it's almost time for Wrestlemania. I can't say I'm super-excited for it...

I'm actually going to be there and I have to agree. Supposedly it's possible for Brock to keep the belt though, which I don't necessarily mind.

I don't see that happening. I feel like WWE is just leaking bogus information to try and keep the smarks interested. Reigns is going to win and he may very well end up getting booed out of the arena afterward.

I hope that's exactly what happens. I have zero interest in it this year and as someone who's watched it since age 2, that's pretty bad.

[Dr. Cynic]

I'm guessing with Lesnar re-signing, they'll get what they want for next year's show. Brock VS Rock to break their own (worked number, I might add), attendance record.

They only got 78,000 in the Pontiac Silverdome for Wrestlemania III, but they wanted to beat the Pope who drew 88,000, so they came up with a number that wasn't even physically possible, which was 93,173... Incidentally, on a plaque they put up at the Silverdome with all their big attendence events, they actually gave the Pope a worked number (93,500) so that he wouldn't appear below Wrestlemania. Which I think is very amusing.

In Dallas, no matter what, they're going to announce 100,000 and they're very likely going to do more than they did at Summerslam 1992 at Wembly Stadium, which is their actual attendance record at about 80,000.

But no matter what, if it's even close to that, they're gonna announce 100,000 people. So, they want that big money match. Brock VS Rock would do it and it's one they want to do...

I think they have to know that Reigns is another Kevin Nash in 1994... The guy isn't getting over and isn't going to draw as champion. They're pretty desperate right now, really...

[Dr. Cynic]

So what do you guys think of the Sheamus return? I agree with the fans when they started chanting "You look stupid" at him last week (for his new look), though I'm really happy to see WWE brought him back as a heel. I don't know what it is, but Irish wrestlers really work better as heels - it worked well originally for Sheamus and like Finlay sort of was, Sheamus is a vicious brawler and is "tough" on the mic so it does work best that he is back a heel.

I just wish in the process of making his "statement" on Raw last week that he wasn't burying Ziggles (who I feel is being mistreated as of late). Nonetheless, Sheamus does appear to be the next in line for an IC Title match.

On a side note, I'm happy to see Sin Cara and now Kalisto (man does he have talent) are on the main roster finally. With Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, Justin Gabriel and others gone now, the WWE does need some more lightweight high-flyers.

He does look stupid. But does anyone remember what he looked like before? He looked like Beaker! Sheamus really had to be a heel on his return though. The only strong heel the company has is Seth Rollins. Compare to the babyface side: Bryan, Reigns, Orton, Cena, Ambrose and Lesnar are all your top faces. Compare the heels: Rollins..... Kane and Big Show.... Rusev... The company is face heavy right now, so adding Sheamus as a heel was the right move.

I didn't think it was a burial, because it fits the character he's playing. Now if Ziggler jobs to him in 3 minute matches, then it's a burial. I'm fine with Bryan-Sheamus feuding over the IC strap.

I really like the Lucha Dragons, but good god, putting them in there with the New Day, none of whom have ever worked the Lucha Libre style before and it was asking for trouble. Mistimed moves, which weren't the fault of Kalisto. The Lucha Dragons need to program immediately with the Brass Ring Club (Which is a great name for the Kidd-Cesaro tag team, I think). Both Kidd and Cesaro are familiar with Lucha Libre, especially Cesaro, because back when he was Claudio Castagnoli, he worked for CHIKARA, where most of the guys worked that style.

Since this is the wrestling thread though and not the WWE thread, have any of you guys had a chance to check out some of the other wrestling on TV? ROH, Lucha Underground, New Japan on AXS... All great shows. If you guys are interested in this topic, there's a message board I'm on, called the Craphole forum where we discuss wrestling. I go by the name Schemer on there.

Oh, by the way, those of you, who like me, enjoyed the "Suplex City, bitch" line. There's a shirt with the saying on a site called barbershop window.

[Dr. Cynic]

So what do you guys think of the Sheamus return? I agree with the fans when they started chanting "You look stupid" at him last week (for his new look), though I'm really happy to see WWE brought him back as a heel. I don't know what it is, but Irish wrestlers really work better as heels - it worked well originally for Sheamus and like Finlay sort of was, Sheamus is a vicious brawler and is "tough" on the mic so it does work best that he is back a heel.

I just wish in the process of making his "statement" on Raw last week that he wasn't burying Ziggles (who I feel is being mistreated as of late). Nonetheless, Sheamus does appear to be the next in line for an IC Title match.

On a side note, I'm happy to see Sin Cara and now Kalisto (man does he have talent) are on the main roster finally. With Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, Justin Gabriel and others gone now, the WWE does need some more lightweight high-flyers.

He does look stupid. But does anyone remember what he looked like before? He looked like Beaker! Sheamus really had to be a heel on his return though. The only strong heel the company has is Seth Rollins. Compare to the babyface side: Bryan, Reigns, Orton, Cena, Ambrose and Lesnar are all your top faces. Compare the heels: Rollins..... Kane and Big Show.... Rusev... The company is face heavy right now, so adding Sheamus as a heel was the right move.

I didn't think it was a burial, because it fits the character he's playing. Now if Ziggler jobs to him in 3 minute matches, then it's a burial. I'm fine with Bryan-Sheamus feuding over the IC strap.

I really like the Lucha Dragons, but good god, putting them in there with the New Day, none of whom have ever worked the Lucha Libre style before and it was asking for trouble. Mistimed moves, which weren't the fault of Kalisto. The Lucha Dragons need to program immediately with the Brass Ring Club (Which is a great name for the Kidd-Cesaro tag team, I think). Both Kidd and Cesaro are familiar with Lucha Libre, especially Cesaro, because back when he was Claudio Castagnoli, he worked for CHIKARA, where most of the guys worked that style.

Since this is the wrestling thread though and not the WWE thread, have any of you guys had a chance to check out some of the other wrestling on TV? ROH, Lucha Underground, New Japan on AXS... All great shows. If you guys are interested in this topic, there's a message board I'm on, called the Craphole forum where we discuss wrestling. I go by the name Schemer on there.

Oh, by the way, those of you, who like me, enjoyed the "Suplex City, bitch" line. There's a shirt with the saying on a site called barbershop window.

I think we can agree he looks stupid with either look. Although a lot of it has to do with his very, very pale complexion. What I do really like is his new entrance music "Hellfire". It sounds cool and he needed a new theme song. And yeah, I agree it was right by the WWE to bring him back as a heel.

It seems like they are bringing Ziggler (and Sheamus) down a notch though if you saw SmackDown. The two are competing in a "Kiss My Arse" match at Extreme Rules which is really degrading since it's more of a "joke" concept that's mainly only been used by Vince McMahon. For the sake of other fellow gay WWE fans elsewhere though, one can only hope Ziggler wins this match.

The Lucha Dragons would work well with Kidd & Cesaro or even Los Matadores (I heard The Usos will be out of action for awhile after Jey Uso got sidelined recently).

I usually don't watch the other promotional shows, except I will occasionally see an episode of TNA on at night (man have they gone downhill). Though TNA does still have that more "hardcore" approach to their matches and segments that the WWE doesn't embrace, so I will give them that, but they continue to remain the company of all superstars that quit/are fired from the WWE. Thanks for the offer of joining that wrestling forum. I'll consider it though I'm not as active in the IWC Community as I used to be. I did look through the Craphole forum though and I have to say it's pretty funny how you guys also have a forum member named "Mr. X" over there as well.

Meh, the line was funny but I don't know if I'd buy a shirt that says it. What I really want to see is if WWEShop or some other site starts selling Dolph Ziggler's new black/light blue zip hoodie. That would be awesome.

I haven't watched Smackdown in awhile. This week I worked till 7 and then stopped off with a few friends to watch the NHL Playoffs. Normally though I simply don't get the chance to see SD. I did know about the Kiss Me Arse match, which is just another bit of nonsense that company does. I think Ziggler will do the job though since they don't seem to want to push him and they are looking to push Sheamus.

Yeah, Jey's gonna be gone for six months. Now Jimmy Uso has a lot of charisma and he could get over on his own if they chose to try it. But what if he got over as a single? Jey doesn't nearly have his charisma and he's not quite as good in the ring. Would they stick them back together? Or would Jey be on the outside? It's an interesting thing to think about. Bryan was sent home from the European tour as well because he has a concussion, so he might be gone for a month or so.

I used to watch TNA when it was on Spike, but I don't get Destination America, so I haven't seen it in ages. It's funny, they had improved dramatically right as they were being kicked off. I hear DA is not nearly so accommodating to them as Spike was and their executives don't understand how wrestling works. TNA also draws well in the UK, so they try to go there as much as possible, but DA wants them to tape here in the U.S. where they can't draw for sh**t. They've also been having problems with payroll. They might not be around by next year.

[Dr. Cynic]

I agree. The funny thing about WWE these days, as opposed to say 18 years ago is, the in-ring product is better than ever. The guys are all better workers than their counterparts from the last boom period, almost without exception.

However, the thing is, while the in ring work is usually very good, the booking makes no sense and actively harms the product half the time. Compare that to the late 90s. Most of the guys were not good in-ring workers, but the booking was so good that something like that didn't matter as much. As I remember it, most matches were just brawls at the time, but it didn't matter as much because the booking was good. Now, we get great matches, but the booking sucks.

It's a funny business.

[Dr. Cynic]

Just got the news that Verne Gagne has died. Gagne was one of the last links to wrestling's first television golden age and he was the owner, booker and primary drawing card of the AWA, based out of Minnesota, but his territory included much of the vast Midwest, including Chicago. Gagne trained a lot of the guys who became major stars including Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Mr. Perfect Curt Hennig, and Sgt. Slaughter. He trained them in a barn under brutal winter conditions.

Gagne's territory was very successful through the 70s and had a huge run from 1981-1983, but the WWF raided the AWA fiercely and by the late 80s, it wasn't pretty. Gagne ended up in bankruptcy court and the AWA folded in 1991.

Gagne and Vince McMahon had a particularly bitter relationship, but this was mostly mended when Verne was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. He'd been struggling with dementia and Alzheimer's disease and in 2009 he got into an altercation with a 97 year old man at the nursing home they resided at. They got into a shoving match and Gagne, being in better shape, took the other man down. The other man died 3 weeks later. However, Gagne was not charged as he had no memory of the incident occurring due to the advanced stage of his illness.

Gagne was 89.

[Dr. Cynic]

I agree. The funny thing about WWE these days, as opposed to say 18 years ago is, the in-ring product is better than ever. The guys are all better workers than their counterparts from the last boom period, almost without exception.

However, the thing is, while the in ring work is usually very good, the booking makes no sense and actively harms the product half the time. Compare that to the late 90s. Most of the guys were not good in-ring workers, but the booking was so good that something like that didn't matter as much. As I remember it, most matches were just brawls at the time, but it didn't matter as much because the booking was good. Now, we get great matches, but the booking sucks.

It's a funny business.

So in other words WWE is the new WCW.

No, it hasn't reached that depth yet. WCW at the end was worse than anything going on today.