Karl Marx vs Ayn Rand (user search)
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  Karl Marx vs Ayn Rand (search mode)
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Question: Karl Marx vs Ayn Rand
#1
Karl Marx
 
#2
Ayn Rand
 
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Total Voters: 74

Author Topic: Karl Marx vs Ayn Rand  (Read 7461 times)
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« on: January 19, 2015, 12:28:47 PM »

The one who believed in democracy and the emancipation of mankind, and that also just happened to be a serious social scientist, rather than a spoiled brat.
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 01:12:41 PM »

How was Marx a 'terrible person' in his private life?
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 02:23:07 PM »

Both were lazy s who sponged off of other people for a living while they penned ideological screeds. The former based his entire ideology off his laziness while the latter based her ideology off of projecting her lazy mooching behavior onto society.

Marx couldn't get a job because he was pretty well blacklisted as a result of his actually participating in revolutionary movements, rather than just sitting on his ass and writing about how terrible things were for him, which is what Rand literally made a living doing.
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 05:28:49 PM »

Not a huge fan of either, but I'll chose the one that didn't contribute to an ideology that led to immense death and suffering worldwide.

Stalinism =/= Marxism
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2015, 02:33:36 PM »

To those who blame Marx for what Stalin or Mao did: you do realize that Marx died in 1883, yes?
Ideas are kind of important in history.

I must have missed that part of Capital where Marx recommends forced industrialization and liquidation of the peasantry and/or collaborating with Nazis
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2015, 12:02:09 AM »

To those who blame Marx for what Stalin or Mao did: you do realize that Marx died in 1883, yes?
Ideas are kind of important in history.

I must have missed that part of Capital where Marx recommends forced industrialization and liquidation of the peasantry and/or collaborating with Nazis
Marx advocated violent revolution against the bourgeoisie and agricultural collectivization, both of which were responsible for mass deaths in the Soviet Union, China, and elsewhere

Literally nothing wrong with either of those policies, the problem of course lies in how said policies are implemented. The bourgeoisie are parasites in need of removal. Of course, in the case of Stalin and Mao, neither actually removed the bourgeoisie of their nations. Stalin came into power without a bourgeoisie in existence (they had been thankfully removed from power) as the representative of the new bureaucracy that arose in response to the degradation of the Soviet Union on account of its isolation. Mao advocated an alliance with the national bourgeoisie and governed not as a representative of the working class, but of the peasantry, which constituted his revolutionary base. So it's really inaccurate to describe the actions of Stalin (bureaucratic despot) or Mao (petit bourgeois revolutionist) as stemming from the works of Marx, who advocated working class control of production and the state, ideas which persisted for a short time in a few places, notably under Lenin in Russia and during the Spanish Civil War. Cuba is a weird outlier that was initially not Stalinist but kind of adapted to the conditions around it in return for aid.

It's also kind of rich that you point out the death tolls from agricultural collectivization (a process that was engaged in haphazardly and stupidly by Stalin and Mao alike), but like all good capitalist ideologists completely ignore the fact that a lot of the problems associated from that policy stem from outright sabotage by the peasantry, global capitalist encirclement, and of course, you ignore the fact that these policies pale in comparison to the number of deaths caused annually by capitalist agricultural production methods, which simultaneously starve masses of people to death while inflicting an epidemic of obesity and other such disorders on others.
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