Were you personally offended by Charlie Hebdo's anti-religious satire?
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  Were you personally offended by Charlie Hebdo's anti-religious satire?
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Question: Where you personallyoffended by Charlie Hebdo's anti-religious satire?
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#2
No
 
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Author Topic: Were you personally offended by Charlie Hebdo's anti-religious satire?  (Read 2878 times)
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BRTD
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« on: January 19, 2015, 11:21:24 AM »
« edited: January 19, 2015, 10:51:18 PM by incredibly specific types of post-punk music »

No, and that applies just as much to their anti-Christian stuff as it does their anti-Islam stuff.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 11:28:54 AM »

No.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 11:42:42 AM »

No, and no one should.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 11:47:58 AM »

No, but the bandwagoning following the shooting is getting a bit tiresome.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 11:48:15 AM »

Why not? All good satire should offend at least a few people.
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BRTD
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 11:52:27 AM »

Getting offended by such stuff is rather counterproductive, and reminds me of this exchange from a couple years ago on another forum. Some Einzige style atheist was really drunk and decided he'd troll the Christians on the forum (hardcore forum, so Christians were outnumbered and a lot less vocal) and made some thread saying he was intending this to be the most blasphemous thing ever, and started posting all sorts of anti-Christian quotes and artwork including black metal stuff. This happens:

Atheist guy: *posts multiple posts of this stuff, gets a few others to join in*
Christian girl: You know what's great about all this? Jesus doesn't love you any less now than before you started this thread!
Atheist guy: RAR! Man f[inks] your religion and f[inks] Jesus, check this out.
Christian girl: Uh OK. I don't even like religion anyway. And Jesus still loves you!
Atheist guy: It doesn't bother you that I say this or this or post things like this?
Christian girl: No not at all. Because nothing you post has and nothing you could possibly post or do will EVER make God love me, or you any less. And that's all that matters. You do realize nothing you say now is much different from some records that I own and listen to? None of the words you say or images you post matter to me.
Atheist guy: *drunken rant which implies he's actually now getting offended that she's NOT offended*
Christian girl: Haha, well sorry about that I guess. But Jesus still loves you. Smiley

Now would he and she look better or worse than if she had posted "You evil infidel I hope you burn in Hell"? Or not that but rather "Wow this is really uncalled, inappropriate, disgusting and offensive"? It's obvious that the response given was the best.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 01:10:15 PM »

No, why would an atheist be offended by anti-religious satire?
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 01:34:25 PM »

Why not? All good satire should offend at least a few people.

Well, I guess it depends how you define offense. I certainly don't expect anyone to like their style (hell, even I don't like all of their cartoons). What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 01:43:21 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.
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ingemann
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2015, 02:05:17 PM »

Not really (Christian)
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 02:28:56 PM »
« Edited: January 19, 2015, 02:32:26 PM by Antonio V »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 02:48:50 PM »


While Charlie Hebdo's satire doesn't offend me, it's natural to feel offended at some points. People who claim they never been offended by any satire are less than sincere.

Of course, there's a fine difference between being offended and saying so out loud, and reacting with inexcusable violence. We shouldn't demonize those merely offended by Charlie Hebdo publications.
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shua
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 03:58:17 PM »

Yes, a few of them. They are very good at what they do.
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Nathan
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2015, 04:19:14 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.

Such feeling is a natural outflow of feeling personally attached to one's religion, rather than just giving it some sort of dry intellectual assent.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2015, 04:26:39 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.

Such feeling is a natural outflow of feeling personally attached to one's religion, rather than just giving it some sort of dry intellectual assent.

OK, I'm not religious, so my knowledge of this is somewhat limited, but I'm pretty sure that there are many Catholics who take their faith seriously and yet don't give a damn about Charlie Hebdo's cartoons making fun of Jesus or the Pope. How would the fact that someone is making fun or your faith diminish it in any way? At most, your reaction could be one of pity toward the cartoonists if you believe God will punish them eventually.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2015, 04:57:17 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.

Such feeling is a natural outflow of feeling personally attached to one's religion, rather than just giving it some sort of dry intellectual assent.

OK, I'm not religious, so my knowledge of this is somewhat limited, but I'm pretty sure that there are many Catholics who take their faith seriously and yet don't give a damn about Charlie Hebdo's cartoons making fun of Jesus or the Pope. How would the fact that someone is making fun or your faith diminish it in any way? At most, your reaction could be one of pity toward the cartoonists if you believe God will punish them eventually.

I think you are missing the point. It's not about diminishing faith. It's about insulting something you care deeply about.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2015, 05:00:24 PM »

I was not personally offended, but obviously a lot of the cartoons were some combination of gross, racist and/or unfunny.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2015, 05:01:05 PM »

Of course not
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2015, 05:07:48 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.

Such feeling is a natural outflow of feeling personally attached to one's religion, rather than just giving it some sort of dry intellectual assent.

OK, I'm not religious, so my knowledge of this is somewhat limited, but I'm pretty sure that there are many Catholics who take their faith seriously and yet don't give a damn about Charlie Hebdo's cartoons making fun of Jesus or the Pope. How would the fact that someone is making fun or your faith diminish it in any way? At most, your reaction could be one of pity toward the cartoonists if you believe God will punish them eventually.

I think you are missing the point. It's not about diminishing faith. It's about insulting something you care deeply about.

But do people take it as a personal offense every time an idea or a value they care deeply about is attacked? I understand why you feel religion is particular, but you have to agree that it's not the only thing that can elicit a strong personal commitment.
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shua
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2015, 05:16:16 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.

Such feeling is a natural outflow of feeling personally attached to one's religion, rather than just giving it some sort of dry intellectual assent.

OK, I'm not religious, so my knowledge of this is somewhat limited, but I'm pretty sure that there are many Catholics who take their faith seriously and yet don't give a damn about Charlie Hebdo's cartoons making fun of Jesus or the Pope. How would the fact that someone is making fun or your faith diminish it in any way? At most, your reaction could be one of pity toward the cartoonists if you believe God will punish them eventually.

If someone jokes about a person's mom, some people will take offense, others will laugh it off. Some might be a little offended but still think it's a little funny.  It's the same thing.  God, Jesus, Mohammed - these are people who mean a lot to those who are religious.
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BRTD
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2015, 05:25:47 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.

Such feeling is a natural outflow of feeling personally attached to one's religion, rather than just giving it some sort of dry intellectual assent.

OK, I'm not religious, so my knowledge of this is somewhat limited, but I'm pretty sure that there are many Catholics who take their faith seriously and yet don't give a damn about Charlie Hebdo's cartoons making fun of Jesus or the Pope. How would the fact that someone is making fun or your faith diminish it in any way? At most, your reaction could be one of pity toward the cartoonists if you believe God will punish them eventually.

I think you are missing the point. It's not about diminishing faith. It's about insulting something you care deeply about.

Well see my post above. Isn't taking offense to such things actually kind of counter-productive? Actually I'm a little perplexed by Madeline's comment above, since it seems that someone giving something more of just a dry intellectual assent probably would be MORE likely to be offended by that train of thought, rather than an actual firm believer.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2015, 06:08:31 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.

Such feeling is a natural outflow of feeling personally attached to one's religion, rather than just giving it some sort of dry intellectual assent.

OK, I'm not religious, so my knowledge of this is somewhat limited, but I'm pretty sure that there are many Catholics who take their faith seriously and yet don't give a damn about Charlie Hebdo's cartoons making fun of Jesus or the Pope. How would the fact that someone is making fun or your faith diminish it in any way? At most, your reaction could be one of pity toward the cartoonists if you believe God will punish them eventually.

If someone jokes about a person's mom, some people will take offense, others will laugh it off. Some might be a little offended but still think it's a little funny.  It's the same thing.  God, Jesus, Mohammed - these are people who mean a lot to those who are religious.

There is a fundamental difference between persons and ideas. Ideas, by virtue of being ideas (and from the point where we accept to live in a free society) are inherently subject to the possibility of rebuttal and mockery.
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BRTD
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2015, 10:34:41 PM »

And really, even if you're Catholic, getting offended by Charlie Hebdo making fun of the Pope is kind of silly. It'd be like if I got really offended up and upset because some publication was making fun of some hipster Christian blogger I follow.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2015, 10:39:20 PM »

I was not personally offended, but obviously a lot of the cartoons were some combination of gross, racist and/or unfunny.

This doesn't mean that I dislike Charlie Hebdo's political orientation.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2015, 10:44:57 PM »

What I meant is that no one should feel personally offended by a cartoon mocking their religion.

Why not? If there's a right to offend then surely there must also be a right to be offended. Which is, needless to say, completely different from a right to firebomb offices and/or gun down people at an editorial meeting.

I can't control other people's feelings, obviously. The point was that I strongly dislike the ideological ramifications of such feeling.

Such feeling is a natural outflow of feeling personally attached to one's religion, rather than just giving it some sort of dry intellectual assent.

OK, I'm not religious, so my knowledge of this is somewhat limited, but I'm pretty sure that there are many Catholics who take their faith seriously and yet don't give a damn about Charlie Hebdo's cartoons making fun of Jesus or the Pope. How would the fact that someone is making fun or your faith diminish it in any way? At most, your reaction could be one of pity toward the cartoonists if you believe God will punish them eventually.

If someone jokes about a person's mom, some people will take offense, others will laugh it off. Some might be a little offended but still think it's a little funny.  It's the same thing.  God, Jesus, Mohammed - these are people who mean a lot to those who are religious.

There is a fundamental difference between persons and ideas. Ideas, by virtue of being ideas (and from the point where we accept to live in a free society) are inherently subject to the possibility of rebuttal and mockery.

Is Muhammad not a person?
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