Opinion of Theodore Roosevelt

[SWE]

HP (not a racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

[politicus]

An impressive man with a wide range of talents and interests. Did some bad stuff, but hard not to rate him as a FF on balance.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

An impressive man with a wide range of talents and interests. Did some bad stuff, but hard not to rate him as a FF on balance.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

HP (not a racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

How in God's name is Teddy Roosevelt a conservative outside of Marxist overthink?

[Mr. Smith]

More good than bad under him, in spite of his imperialist tendencies.

[Rockefeller GOP]

HP (not a racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

How in God's name is Teddy Roosevelt a conservative outside of Marxist overthink?

How is he a liberal outside of the fine and storied tradition of modern Democrats "claiming" any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history?

[Mr. Smith]

HP (not a racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

How in God's name is Teddy Roosevelt a conservative outside of Marxist overthink?

How is he a liberal outside of the fine and storied tradition of modern Democrats "claiming" any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history?

Two words: Universal healthcare.

Such an idea is unthinkable by a party that's getting their tizzy in a fit over even regulation of insurance companies.

[TNF]

Awful.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

FF.

How is he a liberal outside of the fine and storied tradition of modern Democrats "claiming" any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history?

Well, let's see... he oversaw a massive expansion of the power of the federal government; he enforced and expanded regulation of the private sector more than any president before him; he was recognized as the furthest-left president up to that point in history by virtually all of his contemporaries; and he founded the Progressive Party. Based on that, I don't see how you can not consider Roosevelt a progressive in the context of early-20th Century America.

As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

[Rockefeller GOP]

FF.

How is he a liberal outside of the fine and storied tradition of modern Democrats "claiming" any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history?

Well, let's see... he oversaw a massive expansion of the power of the federal government; he enforced and expanded regulation of the private sector more than any president before him; he was recognized as the furthest-left president up to that point in history by virtually all of his contemporaries; and he founded the Progressive Party. Based on that, I don't see how you can not consider Roosevelt a progressive in the context of early-20th Century America.

As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

If expanding federal power is inherently liberal, I expect you all to start claiming George W. Bush in no time.  As for "progressive," I think we can all agree that that word didn't mean the exact same thing back then.  I mean that progressive movement embraced several things, including racism, imperialism and prohibition, that I doubt modern progressives would hop on board with...  As for the Eisenhower comment, there's a thread right now in the election results section about what party certain people would belong to if they were alive today; every single red avatar has said that Eisenhower would be a Democrat.  It's ridiculous.

[Goldwater]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

Not saying I necessarily believe in that claim, but there is evidence in favor of the argument. Eisenhower was a moderate, coveted by both parties for a presidential run, who preserved and in some cases expanded New Deal ideas, enhanced government spending and created various agencies (Highway System, NASA, etc.), criticized growing military spending, etc. Combine that with the hard evidence that the Republican Party is more conservative than its 1950s counterpart and you have a compelling argument.

[H. Ross Peron]

A massive FF, his Progressive incarnation in 1912 in particular was one of the most revolutionary and visionary candidacies in American history.

[Rockefeller GOP]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

Not saying I necessarily believe in that claim, but there is evidence in favor of the argument. Eisenhower was a moderate, coveted by both parties for a presidential run, who preserved and in some cases expanded New Deal ideas, enhanced government spending and created various agencies (Highway System, NASA, etc.), criticized growing military spending, etc. Combine that with the hard evidence that the Republican Party is more conservative than its 1950s counterpart and you have a compelling argument.

Here's a more compelling argument: how many Presidents who have lived decades after leaving office and watched their parties change significantly have ever switched parties?

[Goldwater]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

Not saying I necessarily believe in that claim, but there is evidence in favor of the argument. Eisenhower was a moderate, coveted by both parties for a presidential run, who preserved and in some cases expanded New Deal ideas, enhanced government spending and created various agencies (Highway System, NASA, etc.), criticized growing military spending, etc. Combine that with the hard evidence that the Republican Party is more conservative than its 1950s counterpart and you have a compelling argument.

Here's a more compelling argument: how many Presidents who have lived decades after leaving office and watched their parties change significantly have ever switched parties?

TBF, I think he's just talking about a theoretical modern politician with Eisenhower's views, not the actual Eisenhower if he somehow was still alive in his 120's.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

Not saying I necessarily believe in that claim, but there is evidence in favor of the argument. Eisenhower was a moderate, coveted by both parties for a presidential run, who preserved and in some cases expanded New Deal ideas, enhanced government spending and created various agencies (Highway System, NASA, etc.), criticized growing military spending, etc. Combine that with the hard evidence that the Republican Party is more conservative than its 1950s counterpart and you have a compelling argument.

Here's a more compelling argument: how many Presidents who have lived decades after leaving office and watched their parties change significantly have ever switched parties?

Well, how many presidents have lived to see their parties change significantly, period? The only examples that come to mind immediately are John Adams and Martin Van Buren, both of whom did abandon their parties once it became clear that they no longer represented their ideals.

[Rockefeller GOP]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

Not saying I necessarily believe in that claim, but there is evidence in favor of the argument. Eisenhower was a moderate, coveted by both parties for a presidential run, who preserved and in some cases expanded New Deal ideas, enhanced government spending and created various agencies (Highway System, NASA, etc.), criticized growing military spending, etc. Combine that with the hard evidence that the Republican Party is more conservative than its 1950s counterpart and you have a compelling argument.

Here's a more compelling argument: how many Presidents who have lived decades after leaving office and watched their parties change significantly have ever switched parties?

Well, how many presidents have lived to see their parties change significantly, period? The only examples that come to mind immediately are John Adams and Martin Van Buren, both of whom did abandon their parties once it became clear that they no longer represented their ideals.

I'm sure you'd argue that today's GOP is crazy or whatever compared to its past selves, but Gerald Ford remained a Republican until his death in 2004.  When Truman first would have been a Democrat, it would have been a very different party (especially in MO) than the one he died seeing in the 1970s, but he never defected.  Hoover remained a Republican until his death in 1969.

[Mr. Smith]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

Not saying I necessarily believe in that claim, but there is evidence in favor of the argument. Eisenhower was a moderate, coveted by both parties for a presidential run, who preserved and in some cases expanded New Deal ideas, enhanced government spending and created various agencies (Highway System, NASA, etc.), criticized growing military spending, etc. Combine that with the hard evidence that the Republican Party is more conservative than its 1950s counterpart and you have a compelling argument.

Here's a more compelling argument: how many Presidents who have lived decades after leaving office and watched their parties change significantly have ever switched parties?

Well, how many presidents have lived to see their parties change significantly, period? The only examples that come to mind immediately are John Adams and Martin Van Buren, both of whom did abandon their parties once it became clear that they no longer represented their ideals.

I'm sure you'd argue that today's GOP is crazy or whatever compared to its past selves, but Gerald Ford remained a Republican until his death in 2004.  When Truman first would have been a Democrat, it would have been a very different party (especially in MO) than the one he died seeing in the 1970s, but he never defected.  Hoover remained a Republican until his death in 1969.

First of all, it was Reagan that died in 2004, not Ford.  Hoover did not die in 1969, that was Eisenhower. Secondly, the mainstray of the Democratic party did not change on Truman, no more than it did with Carter, and even if it did, it moved rightwards!

[Rockefeller GOP]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

Not saying I necessarily believe in that claim, but there is evidence in favor of the argument. Eisenhower was a moderate, coveted by both parties for a presidential run, who preserved and in some cases expanded New Deal ideas, enhanced government spending and created various agencies (Highway System, NASA, etc.), criticized growing military spending, etc. Combine that with the hard evidence that the Republican Party is more conservative than its 1950s counterpart and you have a compelling argument.

Here's a more compelling argument: how many Presidents who have lived decades after leaving office and watched their parties change significantly have ever switched parties?

Well, how many presidents have lived to see their parties change significantly, period? The only examples that come to mind immediately are John Adams and Martin Van Buren, both of whom did abandon their parties once it became clear that they no longer represented their ideals.

I'm sure you'd argue that today's GOP is crazy or whatever compared to its past selves, but Gerald Ford remained a Republican until his death in 2004.  When Truman first would have been a Democrat, it would have been a very different party (especially in MO) than the one he died seeing in the 1970s, but he never defected.  Hoover remained a Republican until his death in 1969.

First of all, it was Reagan that died in 2004, not Ford.  Hoover did not die in 1969, that was Eisenhower. Secondly, the mainstray of the Democratic party did not change on Truman, no more than it did with Carter, and even if it did, it moved rightwards!

Oh jeez sorry, Ford died in 2006 (strengthening my point) and Hoover died in '64, so I was off five years.  And the Democratic Party has become ridiculously more culturally liberal and less tolerant of some of its members having culturally or socially conservative positions.

[BaconBacon96]

A truly brilliant man and president.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

FF (racist, imperialist, conservative nutjob)

...
As to your conspiracy theory about the left "claiming any and all past Republicans who are remembered fondly by history", you don't see a lot of Democrats placing dibs on Reagan and Eisenhower.

Actually, I have seen Democrats claim that Eisenhower would be one if he was alive today.

Not saying I necessarily believe in that claim, but there is evidence in favor of the argument. Eisenhower was a moderate, coveted by both parties for a presidential run, who preserved and in some cases expanded New Deal ideas, enhanced government spending and created various agencies (Highway System, NASA, etc.), criticized growing military spending, etc. Combine that with the hard evidence that the Republican Party is more conservative than its 1950s counterpart and you have a compelling argument.

Here's a more compelling argument: how many Presidents who have lived decades after leaving office and watched their parties change significantly have ever switched parties?

Well, how many presidents have lived to see their parties change significantly, period? The only examples that come to mind immediately are John Adams and Martin Van Buren, both of whom did abandon their parties once it became clear that they no longer represented their ideals.

I'm sure you'd argue that today's GOP is crazy or whatever compared to its past selves, but Gerald Ford remained a Republican until his death in 2004.  When Truman first would have been a Democrat, it would have been a very different party (especially in MO) than the one he died seeing in the 1970s, but he never defected.  Hoover remained a Republican until his death in 1969.

Actually, the Democratic Party of 1972 was pretty similar to what it was during Truman's presidency. There were minor shifts, to be sure, but no underlying transformation of what the party stood for. The same can be said for the Republican Party at the time of Ford and Hoover's deaths. By contrast, today's GOP is a world away from the party that elected Teddy Roosevelt.

For the record, my original point was that Roosevelt was a progressive, not that he would be a Democrat. That being said, it's pretty hard to argue that the man who argued in favor of establishing Social Security, the minimum wage, and the income tax in the election of 1912 would be welcome in today's Republican Party.

[Intell]

Massive FF!

[ScottieF]

Huge FF. One of the greats.

[Türkisblau]

FF (not a naive leftist or crazy conservative)

[All Along The Watchtower]

Kind of a nut.