Amendment to the Senate Rules (Passed)

[bore]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Article III, Section 3 is hereby amended to read:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Article III, Section 5 is hereby amended to read:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Article III, Section 6 is hereby amended to read:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[/quote]

Sponsor: bore for Lumine

[Lumine]

Although I don't believe I will personally benefit too much from this (considering the time remaining in the presidential term), I do think this will help upcoming administrations. At times we may have several ongoing crisis, and I think it is a good idea to allow the executive to have at least two slots just to be on the safe side (like what happened with the budget and the emergency resolution).

And this also formally allows the President to post on the Legislation Introduction thread, which I think is a helpful change as well.

[Bacon King]

Thoughts on letting the VP post too?

[TNF]

This is unconstitutional as it stands. Unless we want to amend the constitution to specifically allow the President to introduce legislation, we can't enact this.

[Cranberry]

I guess if the Constitution prohibits the President from introducing legislation, it simply overlaps this here, enabling the President to post in the thread, but still needing a Senator to sponsor it? I don't know, but that would sound logical to me.

I like the part with the second emergency slot, it seems indeed very sensible to me.

[bore]

I'm fine with amending it to include VPs as well.

If this were to pass if the president was to post in the legislation introduction thread and no senator sponsored it the bill would never reach the floor, so I don't see how this is unconstitutional.

[Senator Cris]

I like the idea.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I agree with bore and Cranberry on the constitutionality. It would still need a sponsor to actually be legislation considered on the floor.

[windjammer]

I oppose.
Sorry, I believe in separation of powers. The fact that governors can general propose legilsations in Region Assembly, I'm not opposed because regions aren't always ultra active and sometimes it can be a one man show (althought right now all regions are deeply active and I'm really happy with that), but for the senate, we have 10 senators that are willing to introduce any legislation Lumine would want to be introduced. So I don't see the need for this reform.

[Lumine]

I oppose.
Sorry, I believe in separation of powers. The fact that governors can general propose legilsations in Region Assembly, I'm not opposed because regions aren't always ultra active and sometimes it can be a one man show (althought right now all regions are deeply active and I'm really happy with that), but for the senate, we have 10 senators that are willing to introduce any legislation Lumine would want to be introduced. So I don't see the need for this reform.

How would this harm the separation of powers, considering that one of the two objectives here is to merely legalize something that has been done for the past months? The process may be faster if the executive (President + VP, I certainly support that idea) can indeed post in the thread, but he is not taking any powers away from the Senate given that he still requires a sponsor.

Furthermore, and going to the second part (the extra executive slot) the queue can often find itself filled with bills (often coming from one or two Senators), which means that a crucial piece of legislation for a national emergency could get stuck for too long. Considering that most of the nation believes that the President has to be involved with the Senate, and that we often have more than one crisis or major issue at a time, wouldn't it make sense to allow for two emergency slots for the executive as well?

[windjammer]

I oppose.
Sorry, I believe in separation of powers. The fact that governors can general propose legilsations in Region Assembly, I'm not opposed because regions aren't always ultra active and sometimes it can be a one man show (althought right now all regions are deeply active and I'm really happy with that), but for the senate, we have 10 senators that are willing to introduce any legislation Lumine would want to be introduced. So I don't see the need for this reform.

How would this harm the separation of powers, considering that one of the two objectives here is to merely legalize something that has been done for the past months? The process may be faster if the executive (President + VP, I certainly support that idea) can indeed post in the thread, but he is not taking any powers away from the Senate given that he still requires a sponsor.

Furthermore, and going to the second part (the extra executive slot) the queue can often find itself filled with bills (often coming from one or two Senators), which means that a crucial piece of legislation for a national emergency could get stuck for too long. Considering that most of the nation believes that the President has to be involved with the Senate, and that we often have more than one crisis or major issue at a time, wouldn't it make sense to allow for two emergency slots for the executive as well?

You would introduce legislations, and the president isn't a legislator.

[bore]

The president wouldn't be allowed to propose legislation, it would still need a senator sponsoring it, this just allows him to post in the legislation introduction thread. I'm not sure I see the separation of powers issue here.

[Lumine]

Precisely, it seems kind of exaggerated not to allow the President and the VP not to post on the thread at all, especially considering that they would still need a sponsor (or the emergency slots) to get legislation on the floor.

Would anyone be willing to sponsor this amendment? (It includes the VP on the process)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Article III, Section 3 is hereby amended to read:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Article III, Section 5 is hereby amended to read:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Article III, Section 6 is hereby amended to read:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Senator Cris]

Sponsored for you.

[bore]

Senators have 36 hours to object to Senator Cris's amendment

[Cranberry]

I'm perfectly fine with it.

[Lief 🗽]

I oppose this for the same reasons that my esteemed colleagues from the Midwest and Mideast do.

[windjammer]

Sorry Lumine, I would prefer that you PM a senator for legislations you would like them to be introduced rather than posting in the Legislative Introduction Thread. Just for a question of separation of power.

[Cranberry]

Sorry Lumine, I would prefer that you PM a senator for legislations you would like them to be introduced rather than posting in the Legislative Introduction Thread. Just for a question of separation of power.

I'm sorry Windjammer, but I fail to see any point in this your proposal?

[windjammer]

Sorry Lumine, I would prefer that you PM a senator for legislations you would like them to be introduced rather than posting in the Legislative Introduction Thread. Just for a question of separation of power.

I'm sorry Windjammer, but I fail to see any point in this your proposal?

Separation of power?
The president shouldn't be able to propose legislations. If he wants some legislations to be introduced for him, he should ask a senator to introduce a legislation for him.

Is it clearer?

[bore]

Cris's amendment has been adopted

[Lumine]

Sorry Lumine, I would prefer that you PM a senator for legislations you would like them to be introduced rather than posting in the Legislative Introduction Thread. Just for a question of separation of power.

I'm sorry Windjammer, but I fail to see any point in this your proposal?

Separation of power?
The president shouldn't be able to propose legislations. If he wants some legislations to be introduced for him, he should ask a senator to introduce a legislation for him.

Is it clearer?

But wouldn't this just make the procedure more complicated? After all, the President and Vice-President would still need sponsors, and it does seem a bit strange to only allow Senators to use that thread. In short, why should the concept of the separation of powers be invoked when this proposal would not take a duty away from the Senate? If anything, all it will do is to help the White House (regardless of the President) to have a more efficient way of dealing with the Senate.

[windjammer]

Sorry Lumine, I would prefer that you PM a senator for legislations you would like them to be introduced rather than posting in the Legislative Introduction Thread. Just for a question of separation of power.

I'm sorry Windjammer, but I fail to see any point in this your proposal?

Separation of power?
The president shouldn't be able to propose legislations. If he wants some legislations to be introduced for him, he should ask a senator to introduce a legislation for him.

Is it clearer?

But wouldn't this just make the procedure more complicated? After all, the President and Vice-President would still need sponsors, and it does seem a bit strange to only allow Senators to use that thread. In short, why should the concept of the separation of powers be invoked when this proposal would not take a duty away from the Senate? If anything, all it will do is to help the White House (regardless of the President) to have a more efficient way of dealing with the Senate.

Lumine, you're the first president to have posted directly in the Legislative Introduction Thread. Former presidents just PMed a senator who introduced the legislation for him. And it was fine. The Legislative Introduction thread should be only made for senators because they are the legislators.

[Cranberry]

Sorry Lumine, I would prefer that you PM a senator for legislations you would like them to be introduced rather than posting in the Legislative Introduction Thread. Just for a question of separation of power.

I'm sorry Windjammer, but I fail to see any point in this your proposal?

Separation of power?
The president shouldn't be able to propose legislations. If he wants some legislations to be introduced for him, he should ask a senator to introduce a legislation for him.

Is it clearer?

Well, he still is not able to do so. He still needs a Senator to introduce it for him. What difference is there if he posts it in the thread, for the public to see, and asks a Senator to sposnor it or contacts a Senator in private and asks him to do so? Precisely none, in my opinion.

[windjammer]

Sorry Lumine, I would prefer that you PM a senator for legislations you would like them to be introduced rather than posting in the Legislative Introduction Thread. Just for a question of separation of power.

I'm sorry Windjammer, but I fail to see any point in this your proposal?

Separation of power?
The president shouldn't be able to propose legislations. If he wants some legislations to be introduced for him, he should ask a senator to introduce a legislation for him.

Is it clearer?

Well, he still is not able to do so. He still needs a Senator to introduce it for him. What difference is there if he posts it in the thread, for the public to see, and asks a Senator to sposnor it or contacts a Senator in private and asks him to do so? Precisely none, in my opinion.

Separation of power, simply.