Finnish parliamentary election – April 19th 2015

[ag]

Well, what I meant was that they don't seem very religious. Both are liberal on social issues and the woman doesn't wear a headscarf, for example.

Islam is a religion, not a political movement.

Islam does not have a separation between the secular world and the spiritual world as christianity does (Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's). Mentioning that the people in question do not adhere to the political side of Islam is a relevant fact in a political discussion. In Sweden we've had islamist MPs like Mehmet Kaplan (now minister of housing) and Abdizirak Waberi with close contacts to the Muslim brotherhood.

Even if I were to accept your (patently wrong) distinction with Christianity, you would ne hard-pressed to find one with Judaism. Be my guest, please, continue.

[ag]

We should just drop the moderate and/or secular vs. fundi and/or Islamist thing and start talking about domesticated versus wild Muslims. Might as well drop that PC nonsense.

Sure. I will, from now on, talk about cannibal whites, vs. non-cannibals. Which one are you, btw? Have you stopped eating brown babies for Christmas?

[Hifly]

Well, what I meant was that they don't seem very religious. Both are liberal on social issues and the woman doesn't wear a headscarf, for example.

Islam is a religion, not a political movement.

Islam does not have a separation between the secular world and the spiritual world as christianity does (Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's). Mentioning that the people in question do not adhere to the political side of Islam is a relevant fact in a political discussion. In Sweden we've had islamist MPs like Mehmet Kaplan (now minister of housing) and Abdizirak Waberi with close contacts to the Muslim brotherhood.

Even if I were to accept your (patently wrong) distinction with Christianity, you would ne hard-pressed to find one with Judaism. Be my guest, please, continue.

Why is he wrong?

I would suggest on behalf of everybody here that you restrict yourself to Mexican affairs as European politics is clearly agitating you.

[politicus]

Well, what I meant was that they don't seem very religious. Both are liberal on social issues and the woman doesn't wear a headscarf, for example.

Islam is a religion, not a political movement.

Islam does not have a separation between the secular world and the spiritual world as Christianity does (Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's). Mentioning that the people in question do not adhere to the political side of Islam is a relevant fact in a political discussion. In Sweden we've had islamist MPs like Mehmet Kaplan (now minister of housing) and Abdizirak Waberi with close contacts to the Muslim brotherhood.

Even if I were to accept your (patently wrong) distinction with Christianity, you would be hard-pressed to find one with Judaism. Be my guest, please, continue.

How? It is in the Bible and while churches haven't always been willing to obey by this it certainly gives a very different theological basis for how Christians view their relationship to the state and has formed the basis for Western secularism. Islam provides much more detailed instructions for how to create a society and how to live your life than Christianity, which only gives us vague guiding points.

[ag]

I would suggest on behalf of everybody here that you restrict yourself to Mexican affairs as European politics is clearly agitating you.

Has there been a vote? Or is it you Christianity, or another sort of proper Gottglaubigkeit, that entitles you to speak "on behalf of everybody"?

[Gustaf]

It's amusing that Hifly would say something like that, seeing as he is one of the forum's most despised and ridiculed posters.

[ag]

It's amusing that Hifly would say something like that, seeing as he is one of the forum's most despised and ridiculed posters.

Well, a white man ordering a brownie around. Everything is normal.

My German last name, of course, is the testimony of the times before his ancestors ordered my ancestors into what would become Russia. I guess, mine were insufficiently domesticated.

[Hifly]

It's amusing that Hifly would say something like that, seeing as he is one of the forum's most despised and ridiculed posters.

I thought you had me on ignore? If not, please do so immediately.

Ag I'm intruiged to hear about your take on the point issued re Islam and social secularism, but you haven't addressed it.

In addition, I'm also of Iranian descent, so your reference to colour is interesting. But I guess you had to bring race into it seeing as you couldn't address my question.

[politicus]

It's amusing that Hifly would say something like that, seeing as he is one of the forum's most despised and ridiculed posters.

Well, a white man ordering a brownie around. Everything is normal.

My German last name, of course, is the testimony of the times before his ancestors ordered my ancestors into what would become Russia. I guess, mine were insufficiently domesticated.

Hifly is (partly?) Iranian. You are in all likelyhood the Whitie here.

[Zanas]

Well that's been derailing ATLAS level !

[ag]

It's amusing that Hifly would say something like that, seeing as he is one of the forum's most despised and ridiculed posters.

Well, a white man ordering a brownie around. Everything is normal.

My German last name, of course, is the testimony of the times before his ancestors ordered my ancestors into what would become Russia. I guess, mine were insufficiently domesticated.

Hifly is (partly?) Iranian. You are in all likelyhood the Whitie here.

And I am (partly) Swiss (actually, that is true). As I said multiple times: color - is a state of the mind.

[ag]

Well that's been derailing ATLAS level !

Sorry.

[ag]

It's amusing that Hifly would say something like that, seeing as he is one of the forum's most despised and ridiculed posters.

Islam and social secularism,

I am more interested in Christianity and the same.

[FredLindq]

Please!!

I am Reading this thread to get info about Finnish politks not religion.

Order!!! :-)

So what do you think. My guess is still Centre, NCP, Finns and christiandemocrats.

SFP will be outside, I thinkt that they will not cooperate with the "Finns".

[jaichind]

Please!!

I am Reading this thread to get info about Finnish politks not religion.

Order!!! :-)

So what do you think. My guess is still Centre, NCP, Finns and christiandemocrats.

SFP will be outside, I thinkt that they will not cooperate with the "Finns".

Same here.  On this topic.  It seems Sipila does not rule out Finns party being part of the ruling bloc insisting that it will not hurt Finland's reputation.    Meanwhile Soini said that Finns Party is ready to take part in government formation talks.   And Stubb seems to want to carry on as NCP leader and seems ready to be Sipila's cabinet.    Also it seems NCP-Social Democrat relations are broken anyway so it does not seem to be any altnerative to Centre-Finns-NCP. 

But whatever the coalition make up it will be a uphill climb to restore competitiveness and
growth and halt the rise in public debt.

[Хahar 🤔]

I do wonder if I would be a "moderate" Muslim.

[Lurker]

People seem to be awfully upset over semantics here. Even if the term might be a bit unfortunate, the meaning is entirely clear.

Btw, I have never seen simillar reactions to anyone being described as, say, a liberal or conservative Christian, even if those are vague terms as well.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Well I would say that actually many Muslims view the term as offensive - because it might suggest they are less devoted and religious.  Also I think Muslims view the religion as intrinsically moderate as well.
Oh sorry I didn't see jaichind's post.

[Helsinkian]

Not to fan the flames of the religion discussion... But I would like to point out that the Finnish media has written extensively on the religiousity of two politicians: Juha Sipilä of the Centre Party and Timo Soini of the Finns Party. To top it all we got this weird comment from Timo Airaksinen, professor of philosophy, interviewed by YLE on the election result:

"We will soon have a multicultural society, and yet our future Finance Minister is a devout Catholic [Soini] and our future Prime Minister is a Laestadian [Sipilä]. And they are from regions where religion still means something. That does somewhat frighten an old atheist like myself." (translated)
http://yle.fi/uutiset/filosofi_timo_airaksinen_vaalivoittajien_uskonnollisuutta_ei_ole_nostettu_esiin/7941844

So the philosopher is implying that Catholicism or Laestadianism (both are small religious groups in Finland) don't have a place in a multicultural society, which strikes me as a strange definition of the term "multicultural"... It's even stranger when you consider the fact that a big portion of Finland's Catholics are immigrants.

Note: even though Airaksinen thinks Soini to be the future Finance Minister, that's not self-evident. He might prefer another portfolio.

[Hash]

Let's all take a nice breather folks, and enjoy the fresh air outside. This discussion has derailed and risks becoming way too heated for it to be appropriate on here. Thanks.

[Gustaf]

It's amusing that Hifly would say something like that, seeing as he is one of the forum's most despised and ridiculed posters.

I thought you had me on ignore? If not, please do so immediately.

Ag I'm intruiged to hear about your take on the point issued re Islam and social secularism, but you haven't addressed it.

In addition, I'm also of Iranian descent, so your reference to colour is interesting. But I guess you had to bring race into it seeing as you couldn't address my question.

I hardly ever put anyone on ignore. I can handle reading stupid and offensive posts.

Beyond that I'll just add that laestadians kind of don't have a place in a civilized society.

[Helsinkian]

Largest party in each municipality:

Green = Centre Party
Black = Finns Party
Blue = National Coalition Party
Orange = Social Democratic Party
Pink = Left Alliance
Yellow = Swedish People's Party
Purple = Christian Democrats
Grey = Others (Åland)

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Hmm...interesting.  You see that ring of blue around a dot of yellow - I'm assuming that that's Helsinki proper surrounded by rich suburbs that would naturally vote for the center-right.

[politicus]

Hmm...interesting.  You see that ring of blue around a dot of yellow - I'm assuming that that's Helsinki proper surrounded by rich suburbs that would naturally vote for the center-right.

Yellow is the Swedish Peoples Party.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Hmm...interesting.  You see that ring of blue around a dot of yellow - I'm assuming that that's Helsinki proper surrounded by rich suburbs that would naturally vote for the center-right.

Yellow is the Swedish Peoples Party.

The People's Party is centrist.  Does it lean towards the right or the left?