Unmournable Frenchies (reaction to Charlie Hebdo)

[ingemann]

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read more http://pando.com/2015/01/13/charlie-hebdo-unmournable-frenchies/

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, these kinds of vile, cowardly pieces of trash exist even in France, but they seem particularly prevalent in Anglo-Saxon countries. They all deserve to rot in hell.

[Famous Mortimer]

As a former reader of The eXile, I'm a big fan of John Dolan. I like and agree with this article in general but I thought the accusations of anti-Frenchism were random and not backed up.

I can imagine the same reaction if this happened in Denmark, or England, or even American.

The tumblr leftists don't have a problem with France, they have a problem with White people. Brown people are oppressed and oppressed people can do no wrong in their eyes and when they do do something wrong, it's somehow actually the fault of White people, even when it's White people getting killed.

[Insula Dei]

Like John Dolan, dislike Teju Cole, agree about ridiculous Anglo-Saxon obsession with calling names and the unsavoury Frenchmen who do it, disagree that Menocchio was 'an obscure 16th-century Italian theologist' (unless you're quite liberal with your definition of 'obscure' and 'theologist').

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I read the Cole article when it was published. This article flat-out lies about what Cole means by 'unmournable'. And about the tone and content of the Cole article in general, really.

[Linus Van Pelt]

I read the Cole article when it was published. This article flat-out lies about what Cole means by 'unmournable'. And about the tone and content of the Cole article in general, really.

ˆˆˆ yes. The quotation from Cole is as follows:

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http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/unmournable-bodies

To the extent that anyone specific is described as "unmournable", it is civilian victims of drone strikes in Pakistan, and Cole is not endorsing this position but attributing it to the mainstream response to their deaths.

[Insula Dei]

I read the Cole article when it was published. This article flat-out lies about what Cole means by 'unmournable'. And about the tone and content of the Cole article in general, really.

Dolan doesn't really aim for factual accuracy or nuance, that's an essential part of his schtick.

[Famous Mortimer]

Cole is basically Kanye West. "Hey France, that was a terrible tragedy but drone bombings on the Afghan-Pakistan border are the worst tragedy ever!"

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I don't think this is an Anglo or a Francophobic thing so much as 'the far left are being terrible' thing.

[ingemann]

I read the Cole article when it was published. This article flat-out lies about what Cole means by 'unmournable'. And about the tone and content of the Cole article in general, really.

Dolan doesn't really aim for factual accuracy or nuance, that's an essential part of his schtick.

I like the fact that he carve the sugar way away, which make things look reasonable and focus on the what the person say without the sugar coating.

It's very sad, that people die of American drone strike in Pakistan, but this was two Frenchmen of Algerian descent murdering a bunch of French cartoonists.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I also note that Dolan has the ever-tiresome Anglo cultural cringe of treating 'French “liberté” with sex, language, obscenity, and secularism' as THE COOLEST THING EVER!, and wastes no time in sh**tting all over people like Will Rogers, who is just as legitimate a representative of the English idiomatic tradition as somebody like Françoise Sagan is of the French one. I'm not surprised.

I like the fact that he carve the sugar way away, which make things look reasonable and focus on the what the person say without the sugar coating.

He's not doing that. He's lying.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't think this is an Anglo or a Francophobic thing so much as 'the far left are being terrible' thing.

It's not only a far-left thing. Somewhat surprisingly, when the Muhammad cartoons scandals of 2006 broke out, the firsts to denounce Charlie Hebdo for their "provocation" were often right-wing politicians, with Chirac leading the charge.

[ingemann]

I also note that Dolan has the ever-tiresome Anglo cultural cringe of treating 'French “liberté” with sex, language, obscenity, and secularism' as THE COOLEST THING EVER!, and wastes no time in sh**tting all over people like Will Rogers, who is just as legitimate a representative of the English idiomatic tradition as somebody like Françoise Sagan is of the French one. I'm not surprised.

I like the fact that he carve the sugar way away, which make things look reasonable and focus on the what the person say without the sugar coating.

He's not doing that. He's lying.

Maybe, but not in his comments about Cole's article. He's describing precisely what Cole is really saying, you may only see the sugar coating, but it doesn't change the words behind, and they're ugly.

[Famous Mortimer]

I don't think this is an Anglo or a Francophobic thing so much as 'the far left are being terrible' thing.

It's not only a far-left thing. Somewhat surprisingly, when the Muhammad cartoons scandals of 2006 broke out, the firsts to denounce Charlie Hebdo for their "provocation" were often right-wing politicians, with Chirac leading the charge.

but Chirac wasn't calling them racist after they got killed.

[Famous Mortimer]

I also note that Dolan has the ever-tiresome Anglo cultural cringe of treating 'French “liberté” with sex, language, obscenity, and secularism' as THE COOLEST THING EVER!, and wastes no time in sh**tting all over people like Will Rogers, who is just as legitimate a representative of the English idiomatic tradition as somebody like Françoise Sagan is of the French one. I'm not surprised.

I like the fact that he carve the sugar way away, which make things look reasonable and focus on the what the person say without the sugar coating.

He's not doing that. He's lying.

He's not attacking Will Rogers. When Will Rogers was alive, that was how some people talked. He's attacking people who still talk like Will Rogers, like Jim Hightower and any Democrat who says "folks"

That was actually my favorite part of this article, it was dead on.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't think this is an Anglo or a Francophobic thing so much as 'the far left are being terrible' thing.

It's not only a far-left thing. Somewhat surprisingly, when the Muhammad cartoons scandals of 2006 broke out, the firsts to denounce Charlie Hebdo for their "provocation" were often right-wing politicians, with Chirac leading the charge.

but Chirac wasn't calling them racist after they got killed.

That might have something to do with the fact he's gotten slightly senile since. Anyway, my point stands - the far-left isn't the only one of Charlie Hebdo's sworn enemies.

[MaxQue]

I don't think this is an Anglo or a Francophobic thing so much as 'the far left are being terrible' thing.

It's not only a far-left thing. Somewhat surprisingly, when the Muhammad cartoons scandals of 2006 broke out, the firsts to denounce Charlie Hebdo for their "provocation" were often right-wing politicians, with Chirac leading the charge.

but Chirac wasn't calling them racist after they got killed.

Well, by all accounts, Chirac isn't in the mental state of saying anything coherent anymore.

[Lurker]

Yeah, these kinds of vile, cowardly pieces of trash exist even in France, but they seem particularly prevalent in Anglo-Saxon countries. They all deserve to rot in hell.

This. They exist here as well, and it's absolutely disgusting (though sadly, not surprising). I got to say, the Charlie Hebdo incident have, if nothing else, served as an easy way to tell who are FFs and HPs.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I also note that Dolan has the ever-tiresome Anglo cultural cringe of treating 'French “liberté” with sex, language, obscenity, and secularism' as THE COOLEST THING EVER!, and wastes no time in sh**tting all over people like Will Rogers, who is just as legitimate a representative of the English idiomatic tradition as somebody like Françoise Sagan is of the French one. I'm not surprised.

I like the fact that he carve the sugar way away, which make things look reasonable and focus on the what the person say without the sugar coating.

He's not doing that. He's lying.

Maybe, but not in his comments about Cole's article. He's describing precisely what Cole is really saying, you may only see the sugar coating, but it doesn't change the words behind, and they're ugly.

I think you're doing what we call, in the lit-crit biz, 'reading into' the Cole article.

I also note that Dolan has the ever-tiresome Anglo cultural cringe of treating 'French “liberté” with sex, language, obscenity, and secularism' as THE COOLEST THING EVER!, and wastes no time in sh**tting all over people like Will Rogers, who is just as legitimate a representative of the English idiomatic tradition as somebody like Françoise Sagan is of the French one. I'm not surprised.

I like the fact that he carve the sugar way away, which make things look reasonable and focus on the what the person say without the sugar coating.

He's not doing that. He's lying.

He's not attacking Will Rogers. When Will Rogers was alive, that was how some people talked. He's attacking people who still talk like Will Rogers, like Jim Hightower and any Democrat who says "folks"

That was actually my favorite part of this article, it was dead on.

Replace 'Will Rogers' with 'Jim Hightower' and I still stand by what I said. He's shilling his own idiomatic preferences and treating deviation from them, or criticism of them, as worthy of contempt (or worthy of assertions like Anglophone culture being more similar to Sunni Arab culture than it is to Francophone culture? What the [Inks]?! That's absolutely insane!).

[Linus Van Pelt]

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Maybe, but not in his comments about Cole's article. He's describing precisely what Cole is really saying, you may only see the sugar coating, but it doesn't change the words behind, and they're ugly.

No, he is, as Nathan said, just lying. The Cole quote is not sarcastic in context, and the idea that this is what is "really" being said behind the "sugar coating" is not reasonable or honest.

[Famous Mortimer]

It was probably a mistake to focus on Cole. There are plenty of people actually saying that the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists are unmornable. Thankfully few of them write for major news sources/websites.

They do unfortunately control most social science programs at universities now.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

This inveighing against nebulous groups of academics is yet another set of tropes that it's not exactly behovely for people ostensibly concerned with liberal values to be using.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It was probably a mistake to focus on Cole. There are plenty of people actually saying that the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists are unmornable. Thankfully few of them write for major news sources/websites.

Interestingly, they even include a former stalwart Charlie Hebdo, who falls into the "far-left moron" category and left several years ago due to disagreements of a similar kind of those that are surfacing now.

[ingemann]

This inveighing against nebulous groups of academics is yet another set of tropes that it's not exactly behovely for people ostensibly concerned with liberal values to be using.

Why, illiberal values don't become less illiberal because the man spewing them have a master degree instead of a shovel.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

This inveighing against nebulous groups of academics is yet another set of tropes that it's not exactly behovely for people ostensibly concerned with liberal values to be using.

Why, illiberal values don't become less illiberal because the man spewing them have a master degree instead of a shovel.

Provide some sort of argument for the notion that social science faculties are suddenly and uniquely swarming with people espousing 'illiberal values'--illiberal as opposed to just an version of liberal values that isn't identical to yours (bonus points if you account for the possibility that a your preferred version of liberalism may have been a way of understanding the world that people working in social science disciplines decided to reject after genuine consideration rather than just because they're some sort of funhouse-mirror version of Wahhabi clerics or something)--and then maybe we can have this conversation. Until then, WillipsBrighton is just engaging in anti-intellectual hand-wringing about 'the ivory tower'.