If Electoral Votes Were Cast in Proportion to PVs
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 23, 2024, 04:58:42 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Election What-ifs?
  Past Election What-ifs (US) (Moderator: Dereich)
  If Electoral Votes Were Cast in Proportion to PVs
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: If Electoral Votes Were Cast in Proportion to PVs  (Read 2410 times)
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: February 01, 2015, 09:32:02 PM »

Some have suggested that U.S. presidential elections would be more fair if EVs were cast in proportion to PVs instead of winner-takes-all.  So I calculated the number of votes each state would have given to each ticket in every election from 1864 to 2012 if the electoral appointments of every state in every election as closely as possible matched the state's popular vote assuming no difference in each state's total number of EVs in each election.  What I found in those 38 elections was that the practice did manage to turn the elections of 1876 and 1888 in favor of the winners of the nationwide PV, but it also sent the 2000 election AND TEN OTHER ELECTIONS to be decided by Congress.  That's 29%!

Here are the totals from each election from my calculations, including the minimum numbers of votes required.  Years without an electoral majority are in red.

1864
118 (50.4%) --> minimum required
129 (55.1%) --> Lincoln/Johnson (Republican)
105 (44.9%) --> McClellan/Pendleton (Democratic)

1868
148 (50.3%) --> minimum required
156 (53.1%) --> Grant/Colfax (Republican)
138 (46.9%) --> Seymour/Blair (Democratic)

1872
177 (50.3%) --> minimum required
199 (56.5%) --> Grant/Wilson (Republican)
152 (43.2%) --> Adams/Brown (Democratic) *
1 (0.3%) --> (no candidate)

1876
185 (50.1%) --> minimum required
188 (50.9%) --> Tilden/Hendricks (Democratic)
179 (48.5%) --> Hayes/Wheeler (Republican)
2 (0.5%) --> Cooper/Cary (Greenback)

1880
185 (50.1%) --> minimum required
181 (49.1%) --> Garfield/Arthur (Republican)
181 (49.1%) --> Hancock/English (Democratic)
7 (1.9%) --> Weaver/Chambers (Greenback)

1884
201 (50.1%) --> minimum required
204 (50.9%) --> Cleveland/Hendricks (Democratic)
191 (47.6%) --> Blaine/Logan (Republican)
4 (1.0%) --> Butler/West (Greenback)
2 (0.5%) --> Saint John/Daniel (Prohibition)

1888
201 (50.1%) --> minimum required
204 (50.9%) --> Cleveland/Thurman (Democratic)
189 (47.1%) --> Harrison/Morton (Republican)
5 (1.2%) --> Fisk/Brooks (Prohibition)
3 (0.7%) --> Streeter/Cunningham (Union Labor)

1892
223 (50.2%) --> minimum required
209 (47.1%) --> Cleveland/Stevenson (Democratic)
184 (41.4%) --> Harrison/Reid (Republican)
46 (10.4%) --> Weaver/Field (Populist)
5 (1.1%) --> Bidwell/Cranfill (Prohibition)

1896
224 (50.1%) --> minimum required
226 (50.6%) --> McKinley/Hobart (Republican)
220 (49.2%) --> Bryan/Sewall (Democratic)
1 (0.2%) --> Levering/Johnson (Prohibition)

1900
224 (50.1%) --> minimum required
222 (49.7%) --> McKinley/Roosevelt (Republican)
222 (49.7%) --> Bryan/Stevenson (Democratic)
2 (0.4%) --> Woolley/Metcalf (Prohibition)
1 (0.2%) --> Barker/Donnelly (Populist)

1904
239 (50.2%) --> minimum required
248 (52.1%) --> Roosevelt/Fairbanks (Republican)
211 (44.3%) --> Parker/Davis (Democratic)
8 (1.7%) --> Debs/Hanford (Socialist)
5 (1.1%) --> Watson/Tibbles (Populist)
4 (0.8%) --> Swallow/Carroll (Prohibition)

1908
242 (50.1%) --> minimum required
239 (49.5%) --> Taft/Sherman (Republican)
230 (47.6%) --> Bryan/Kern (Democratic)
7 (1.4%) --> Debs/Hanford (Socialist)
3 (0.6%) --> Chafin/Watkins (Prohibition)
2 (0.4%) --> Hisgen/Graves (Independence)
2 (0.4%) --> Watson/Williams (Populist)

1912
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
252 (47.5%) --> Wilson/Marshall (Democratic)
136 (25.6%) --> Roosevelt/Johnson (Progressive)
112 (21.1%) --> Taft/Butler (Republican)
29 (5.5%) --> Debs/Seidel (Socialist)
2 (0.4%) --> Chafin/Watkins (Prohibition)

1916
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
286 (53.9%) --> Wilson/Marshall (Democratic)
230 (43.3%) --> Hughes/Fairbanks (Republican)
10 (1.9%) --> Benson/Kirkpatrick (Socialist)
2 (0.4%) --> Hanly/Landrith (Prohibition)
3 (0.6%) --> (no candidate)

1920
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
303 (57.1%) --> Harding/Coolidge (Republican)
209 (39.4%) --> Cox/Roosevelt (Democratic)
12 (2.3%) --> Debs/Stedman (Socialist)
3 (0.6%) --> Christensen/Hayes (Farmer-Labor)
2 (0.4%) --> Ferguson/Hough (American)
1 (0.2%) --> Watkins/Colvin (Prohibition)
1 (0.2%) --> (no candidate)

1924
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
263 (49.5%) --> Coolidge/Dawes (Republican)
192 (36.2%) --> Davis/Bryan (Democratic)
76 (14.3%) --> LaFollette/Wheeler (Progressive)

1928
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
299 (56.3%) --> Hoover/Curtis (Republican)
231 (43.5%) --> Smith/Robinson (Democratic)
1 (0.2%) --> Thomas/Maurer (Socialist)

1932
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
328 (61.8%) --> Roosevelt/Garner (Democratic)
196 (36.9%) --> Hoover/Curtis (Republican)
7 (1.3%) --> Thomas/Maurer (Socialist)

1936
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
347 (65.3%) --> Roosevelt/Garner (Democratic)
175 (33.0%) --> Landon/Knox (Republican)
8 (1.5%) --> Lemke/O'Brian (Union)
1 (0.2%) --> Thomas/Nelson (Socialist)

1940
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
315 (59.3%) --> Roosevelt/Wallace (Democratic)
216 (40.7%) --> Willkie/McNary (Republican)

1944
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
299 (56.3%) --> Roosevelt/Truman (Democratic)
228 (42.9%) --> Dewey/Bricker (Republican)
4 (0.8%) --> (no candidate)

1948
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
259 (48.8%) --> Truman/Barkley (Democratic)
227 (42.7%) --> Dewey/Warren (Republican)
39 (7.3%) --> Thurmond/Wright (State's Rights)
6 (1.1%) --> Wallace/Taylor (Progressive)

1952
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
291 (54.8%) --> Eisenhower/Nixon (Republican)
240 (45.2%) --> Stevenson/Sparkman (Democratic)

1956
266 (50.1%) --> minimum required
296 (55.7%) --> Eisenhower/Nixon (Republican)
231 (43.5%) --> Stevenson/Kefauver (Democratic)
4 (0.8%) --> (unpledged)

1960
269 (50.1%) --> minimum required
270 (50.3%) --> Kennedy/Johnson (Democratic)
261 (48.6%) --> Nixon/Lodge (Republican)
1 (0.2%) --> Faubus/Crommelin (National State's Rights)
5 (0.9%) --> (unpledged)

1964
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
320 (59.5%) --> Johnson/Humphrey (Democratic)
215 (40.0%) --> Goldwater/Miller (Republican)
3 (0.6%) --> (unpledged)

1968
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
236 (43.9%) --> Nixon/Agnew (Republican)
227 (42.2%) --> Humphrey/Muskie (Democratic)
75 (13.9%) --> Wallace/LeMay (American Independent)

1972
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
336 (62.5%) --> Nixon/Agnew (Republican)
201 (37.4%) --> McGovern/Shriver (Democratic)
1 (0.2%) --> Schmitz/Anderson (American)

1976
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
273 (50.7%) --> Carter/Mondale (Democratic)
265 (49.3%) --> Ford/Dole (Republican)

1980
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
277 (51.5%) --> Reagan/Bush (Republican)
225 (41.8%) --> Carter/Mondale (Democratic)
35 (6.5%) --> Anderson/Lucey (Independent)
1 (0.2%) --> Clark/Koch (Libertarian)

1984
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
320 (59.5%) --> Reagan/Bush (Republican)
218 (40.5%) --> Mondale/Ferraro (Democratic)

1988
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
291 (54.1%) --> Bush/Quayle (Republican)
247 (45.9%) --> Dukakis/Bentsen (Democratic)

1992
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
237 (44.1%) --> Clinton/Gore (Democratic)
197 (36.6%) --> Bush/Quayle (Republican)
104 (19.3%) --> Perot/Stockdale (Independent)

1996
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
267 (49.6%) --> Clinton/Gore (Democratic)
225 (41.8%) --> Dole/Kemp (Republican)
45 (8.4%) --> Perot/Choate (Reform)
1 (0.2%) --> Nader/LaDuke (Green)

2000
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
266 (49.4%) --> Gore/Lieberman (Democratic)
265 (49.3%) --> Bush/Cheney (Republican)
7 (1.3%) --> Nader/LaDuke (Green)

2004
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
280 (52.0%) --> Bush/Cheney (Republican)
258 (48.0%) --> Kerry/Edwards (Democratic)

2008
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
289 (53.7%) --> Obama/Biden (Democratic)
249 (46.3%) --> McCain/Palin (Republican)

2012
270 (50.2%) --> minimum required
275 (51.1%) --> Obama/Biden (Democratic)
262 (48.7%) --> Romney/Ryan (Republican)
1 (0.2%) --> Johnson/Gray (Libertarian)

* Charles F. Adams (son of John Quincy Adams) seemed to me to be the logical recipient of the Democratic votes after the death of Horace Greeley five days before the casting of the electoral votes in 1872 since he finished 1st on the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th ballots and 2nd on the 2nd and 6th (final) ballots at the Democratic National Convention.
Logged
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2015, 09:55:47 PM »

For the eleven elections that would have gone to Congress I figured out the likely winners based on the makeup of the House and Senate in each case and assuming that every Republican would vote for the Republican and every Democrat would vote for the Democrat:

1880 --> (inconclusive)/English
1892 --> Cleveland/Reid
1900 --> McKinley/Roosevelt
1908 --> Taft/Sherman
1912 --> (inconclusive)/Butler
1924 --> (inconclusive)/Dawes
1948 --> Truman/Barkley
1968 --> Humphrey/Muskie
1992 --> Clinton/Gore
1996 --> Dole/Kemp
2000 --> Bush/(inconclusive)
Logged
🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,684
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 12:04:19 AM »

What does the "minimum required" mean?
Logged
Goldwater
Republitarian
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,067
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.55, S: -4.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 12:09:51 AM »

What does the "minimum required" mean?

I'm pretty sure it's the number of electoral votes needed to win.
Logged
Skill and Chance
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,665
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 10:47:17 PM »

Very interesting, thanks for putting this together!

It's always the new congress that gets to implement the 12th Amendment in January, but it looks like you accounted for that because you have 2000 VP inconclusive due to the 50/50 senate.  I am surprised at how often this would send elections to congress.  The skew of statewide allocation is nothing compared to Wyoming and Vermont directly canceling out California and Texas in the House vote, so perhaps this method is not really any more Democratic over the long term.  Especially when you consider that a House vote basically ensured a Democratic president for 10 consecutive elections and will ensure a Republican president for the indefinite future.
Logged
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2015, 01:15:41 AM »

Based on the fact that in June of '01 Jim Jeffords of Vermont switched from the Republican Party to independent and started caucusing with the Democratic Party, I believe the odds favor the winners in a Congress-decided 2000 election being Bush/Lieberman, almost a flashback to 1796 except that since in 1796 opposing presidential candidates became President and Vice President, a true 1796 "flashback" would be if Gore became Bush's VP or vice versa (impossible since the House's choices are limited to the top three presidential electoral vote recipients, and the Senate is limited to choosing between the top two recipients of vice presidential electoral votes).
Logged
Skill and Chance
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,665
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2015, 07:49:03 PM »

It would generally result in at least 1 swing vote in each state with >5 EV and 5-10 swing votes in CA and TX, right?  Of course with campaigns being free to journey outside the swing states, you just might see an attempt to get 85% in WY or VT if it looked viable. 
Logged
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2015, 11:22:42 PM »

If every state cast its electoral votes in proportion to their popular votes, here's how each state would have voted in the 2012 presidential & vice-presidential elections:

State
Dem.
Rep.
Lib.
Alabama
3
6
Alaska
1
2
Arizona
5
6
Arkansas
2
4
California
33
21
1
Colorado
5
4
Connecticut
4
3
Delaware
2
1
District of Columbia
3
Florida
15
14
Georgia
7
9
Hawaii
3
1
Idaho
1
3
Illinois
12
8
Indiana
5
6
Iowa
3
3
Kansas
2
4
Kentucky
3
5
Louisiana
3
5
Maine
2
2
Maryland
6
4
Massachusetts
7
4
Michigan
9
7
Minnesota
5
5
Mississippi
3
3
Missouri
5
5
Montana
1
2
Nebraska
2
3
Nevada
3
3
New Hampshire
2
2
New Jersey
8
6
New Mexico
3
2
New York
19
10
North Carolina
7
8
North Dakota
1
2
Ohio
9
9
Oklahoma
2
5
Oregon
4
3
Pennsylvania
11
9
Rhode Island
3
1
South Carolina
4
5
South Dakota
1
2
Tennessee
4
7
Texas
16
22
Utah
2
4
Vermont
2
1
Virginia
7
6
Washington
7
5
West Virginia
2
3
Wisconsin
5
5
Wyoming
1
2
Totals
275
262
1
Logged
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2015, 11:44:54 PM »

If every state cast its electoral votes in proportion to their popular votes, here's how each state would have voted in the 2008 presidential & vice-presidential elections:

State
Obama/BidenMcCain/Palin
Alabama
4
5
Alaska
1
2
Arizona
5
5
Arkansas
2
4
California
34
21
Colorado
5
4
Connecticut
4
3
Delaware
2
1
District of Columbia
3
Florida
14
13
Georgia
7
8
Hawaii
3
1
Idaho
1
3
Illinois
13
8
Indiana
6
5
Iowa
4
3
Kansas
3
3
Kentucky
3
5
Louisiana
4
5
Maine
2
2
Maryland
6
4
Massachusetts
8
4
Michigan
10
7
Minnesota
6
4
Mississippi
3
3
Missouri
5
6
Montana
1
2
Nebraska
2
3
Nevada
3
2
New Hampshire
2
2
New Jersey
9
6
New Mexico
3
2
New York
20
11
North Carolina
8
7
North Dakota
1
2
Ohio
10
10
Oklahoma
2
5
Oregon
4
3
Pennsylvania
12
9
Rhode Island
3
1
South Carolina
4
4
South Dakota
1
2
Tennessee
5
6
Texas
15
19
Utah
2
3
Vermont
2
1
Virginia
7
6
Washington
6
5
West Virginia
2
3
Wisconsin
6
4
Wyoming
1
2
Totals
289
249
Logged
Stan
Rookie
**
Posts: 202
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2015, 06:51:26 PM »

Very interesting. I think can be interesting the role of Nader in 2000 with this system...
Logged
bagelman
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,630
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: -4.17

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2015, 10:29:49 PM »

Very interesting. I think can be interesting the role of Nader in 2000 with this system...

My guess is he would prevent a majority, and the house elects Bush.

But if we had this system beforehand there might be some other system created after 1992.
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,734


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2015, 12:33:04 AM »

Bush in 2004 would have done better then Reagan in 1980 lol
Logged
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 06:18:19 PM »

Bush in 2004 would have done better then Reagan in 1980 lol

Correct, Bush/Cheney in 2004 would have had 3 more votes than Reagan/Bush in 1980.  Here are the details (the 1980 details are in a separate post due to the maximum post size limit):

2004

State
Bush/CheneyKerry/Edwards
Alabama
6
3
Alaska
2
1
Arizona
6
4
Arkansas
3
3
California
25
30
Colorado
5
4
Connecticut
3
4
Delaware
1
2
District of Columbia
3
Florida
14
13
Georgia
9
6
Hawaii
2
2
Idaho
3
1
Illinois
9
12
Indiana
7
4
Iowa
4
3
Kansas
4
2
Kentucky
5
3
Louisiana
5
4
Maine
2
2
Maryland
4
6
Massachusetts
4
8
Michigan
8
9
Minnesota
5
5
Mississippi
4
2
Missouri
6
5
Montana
2
1
Nebraska
3
2
Nevada
3
2
New Hampshire
2
2
New Jersey
7
8
New Mexico
3
2
New York
13
18
North Carolina
8
7
North Dakota
2
1
Ohio
10
10
Oklahoma
5
2
Oregon
3
4
Pennsylvania
10
11
Rhode Island
2
2
South Carolina
5
3
South Dakota
2
1
Tennessee
6
5
Texas
21
13
Utah
4
1
Vermont
1
2
Virginia
7
6
Washington
5
6
West Virginia
3
2
Wisconsin
5
5
Wyoming
2
1
Totals
280
258
Logged
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2015, 06:22:53 PM »

Bush in 2004 would have done better then Reagan in 1980 lol

Here is how each state would have voted in 1980 if its electoral votes were proportional to its popular votes (as close as possible):

State
Reagan/BushCarter/MondaleAnderson/LuceyClark/Koch
Alabama
5
4
Alaska
2
1
Arizona
3
2
1
Arkansas
3
3
California
24
16
4
1
Colorado
4
2
1
Connecticut
4
3
1
Delaware
2
1
District of Columbia
3
Florida
9
7
1
Georgia
5
7
Hawaii
2
2
Idaho
3
1
Illinois
13
11
2
Indiana
7
5
1
Iowa
4
3
1
Kansas
4
2
1
Kentucky
5
4
Louisiana
5
5
Maine
2
2
Maryland
4
5
1
Massachusetts
6
6
2
Michigan
10
9
2
Minnesota
4
5
1
Mississippi
4
3
Missouri
6
6
Montana
3
1
Nebraska
4
1
Nevada
2
1
New Hampshire
2
1
1
New Jersey
9
7
1
New Mexico
2
2
New York
20
18
3
North Carolina
7
6
North Dakota
2
1
Ohio
13
10
2
Oklahoma
5
3
Oregon
3
2
1
Pennsylvania
13
12
2
Rhode Island
1
2
1
South Carolina
4
4
South Dakota
3
1
Tennessee
5
5
Texas
14
11
1
Utah
3
1
Vermont
1
1
1
Virginia
6
5
1
Washington
5
3
1
West Virginia
3
3
Wisconsin
5
5
1
Wyoming
2
1
Totals
277
225
35
1
Logged
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2015, 06:35:57 PM »

What happens with the elections without anyone reaching a majority? The election still goes down to the House floor?

Yes, in the case where nobody receives an absolute majority of electoral votes (at least 270 votes since 1964), the U.S. House of Representatives still elects the President and the U.S. Senate still elects the Vice President.  Despite the outcry the last time the House chose the President, in 1824, the Constitution remains unchanged on that subject to this day.  (The only time that the Senate elected the Vice President was in 1836.  The Senate elected Martin Van Buren's running mate, Richard M. Johnson, who finished one electoral vote short of the minimum.)
Logged
HankW501
Rookie
**
Posts: 62
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2015, 05:29:57 PM »

Here are the top ten electoral vote landslides from my list:

#1 - 65.3% - Roosevelt/Garner in 1936
#2 - 62.5% - Nixon/Agnew in 1972
#3 - 61.8% - Roosevelt/Garner in 1933
#4 (tie) - 59.5% - Johnson/Humphrey in 1964
#4 (tie) - 59.5% - Reagan/Bush in 1984
#6 - 59.3% - Roosevelt/Wallace in 1940
#7 - 57.1% - Harding/Coolidge in 1921
#8 - 56.5% - Grant/Wilson in 1872
#9 (tie) - 56.3% - Hoover/Curtis in 1929
#9 (tie) - 56.3% - Roosevelt/Truman in 1944
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.138 seconds with 13 queries.