Governor Terrible (Brownback) to balance budget via cutting highway funding (user search)
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  Governor Terrible (Brownback) to balance budget via cutting highway funding (search mode)
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Author Topic: Governor Terrible (Brownback) to balance budget via cutting highway funding  (Read 6347 times)
traininthedistance
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« on: February 08, 2015, 04:57:49 PM »
« edited: February 08, 2015, 05:08:49 PM by traininthedistance »

Excellent news!

Ibn Rushd, take my daily commute to work and then tell me how "overbuilt" you think American highways are. The Texas DoT is finally building an interchange that should have been done years ago that will reduce my commute time by a good 10-15%.

For rural areas, highways are their only lifeline to the outside world.

Ever heard of "induced demand"? Take the train.

You really are an idiot, aren't you? There is a whole world outside the Bos-Wash corridor, Simfan. There are none of these "trains" of which you speak in Houston or any other city in these part of the country.

So what?  That means we need to be locked into subsidizing this counterproductive idiocy for all time? We can never fix our mistakes, ever?

(And let's be perfectly clear here.  This isn't about rural areas' "lifeline to the outside world"- rural routes with little traffic are in no danger here, and work just fine as is with just maintenance rather than expansion.  This is about the perverse nature of our suburbs and exurbs, full stop– and suburbanites should stop wrapping themselves in MUH RURAL AREAS to justify their harmful car-only mentalities.)
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 07:46:48 PM »
« Edited: February 08, 2015, 07:54:16 PM by traininthedistance »

Oh my god, you think I'm going to oppose someone proposing to build a coherent light rail system that I could actually use? With the existing BART/light rail infrastructure that Houston has, I literally cannot get to my job any other way than by driving there in a car. I have looked at the schedules myself and the dots literally do not connect for my location and schedule.

I would love for that to change, but it's not going to. The political landscape here simply will not allow it. So, yes, I am going to wrap myself in MUH HIGHWAYS FOR MUH CAR because there are no other options available to me. It's a choice between sitting in traffic for X amount of time on a congested highway and sitting in traffic for <X amount of time on a less congested, more built-up highway.

I'll have a longer response when I have the time... but just for right now I will say that if you'd really love for it to change, then stuff the myopic, self-perpetuating defeatism and be willing to advocate for a change!  Don't tell me the "political landscape" is immutable, don't tell me that we are absolutely shackled to the mistakes of past generation; to take that as a given is to give up on the possibility of any change and any betterment.  I reject that line of thinking– and I especially reject its selective application when it comes to MUH CARZ.  To do otherwise would be to abdicate my responsibility as an informed citizen.

Also, "buses are for poor people" is bullsh*t.  Buses can, and should, be for everyone.  (And there are already apps which help with the problem you mention, which I agree is a real one.)

I don't disagree with you, but you are missing my point.

I'm asking how you would implement a mass transit system given the current legislative climate.

You make your case in the public square and change the climate, of course.  I'm under no illusions that the exact best program could be implemented immediately, or even in the next decade or two... but you can't just throw up your hands and give up, you push for the changes you want to see and maybe eventually you'll get progress.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2015, 03:36:01 AM »

Oh my god, you think I'm going to oppose someone proposing to build a coherent light rail system that I could actually use? With the existing BART/light rail infrastructure that Houston has, I literally cannot get to my job any other way than by driving there in a car. I have looked at the schedules myself and the dots literally do not connect for my location and schedule.

I would love for that to change, but it's not going to. The political landscape here simply will not allow it. So, yes, I am going to wrap myself in MUH HIGHWAYS FOR MUH CAR because there are no other options available to me. It's a choice between sitting in traffic for X amount of time on a congested highway and sitting in traffic for <X amount of time on a less congested, more built-up highway.

Okay, here's another way of thinking about it, putting aside the selective defeatism I already pointed out: MUH HIGHWAYS FOR MUH CAR is, undoubtedly, self-defeating even on its own terms; and likewise, support for expansion and better funding for transit is in your self-interest even if said transit is not currently a realistic option for you yourself to take.

Why?  It's the induced demand, stupid!  Seriously, this is a well-documented phenomenon- you widen the roads to deal with "congestion", and it just makes the congestion worse as people move farther and farther out; take extra trips during rush hour; etc.  Conversely, when urban roads go out of service– as in the Los Angeles shutdown a year or two ago that got everyone in a tizzy, or when San Fran tore down the Central Freeway and replaced it with a landscaped, at-grade boulevard– the prophecies of doom and gloom never come to pass!

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It's not a "choice between sitting in traffic for X amount of time on a congested highway and sitting in traffic for <X amount of time on a less congested, more built-up highway" because that's not how more built-up highways work.  You don't get that option.  I realize that that's how you would intuitively expect them to, but it's pretty much just a settled fact at this point that your preferred approach is self-defeating.

Now, with that in mind, how do you reduce congestion?  Obviously one of the big helps here is going to be to take that pot of money currently earmarked for "congestion-reducing" road projects, and give it to that which is inherently space-saving in comparison to private cars– public transit.  Obviously I wouldn't expect that the Houston bus system would ever be as large a share of the city's fabric as the MTA, the geography of the place forbids it... but if there were more routes, running more frequently, then it would eventually become a viable option for some folks, and take cars off the road.  (And, eventually, spur infill rather than sprawl development, creating a virtuous cycle by which the geometry of the city becomes more efficient and less dependent on long-distance traffic jams.)  Seriously, many of those new roads would not pass muster if DOTs properly accounted for induced demand; and while one might try to argue that they create wealth by opening up land for development, the vast majority of that sprawl has merely served to redistribute wealth away from the core, rather than actually create anything new.

Surely you can see how this would benefit your commute, and the commutes of others, even if you're not one of those folks who makes the switch.  (Surely you can also see Nix's point about being the change you want to see in the world and, to the extent that it's within your means, living close to work.  It's the old saw– you're not stuck in traffic, you are traffic.)

The other big thing, and the author of the quoted article seems more bullish on it as a congestion-reducing proposal than public transit, TBH, is congestion pricing.  Now that's a proposal I wouldn't really advocate for in Houston right now, despite it being the straightforwardly economist-approved way of doing things (esp. one which charges mainly on peak commuting hours, so as to incentivize discretionary trips towards non-peak hours where the roads are clear).  I would support it in NYC, but we have a much graver need and our strong public transit system means that equity arguments are basically just concern trolling rather than a real legitimate point, as they would be in your city. 

But even if I'm not going to advocate road-pricing schemes for Houston at this exact moment*, the fact still remains that private automobile travel is ludicrously over-subsidized in many ways and we need to find ways of starting to roll those subsidies back, and redirect them to less wasteful ends.  Not all at once– people will need time to adapt– but our environment, the fiscal health of our cities and states, our general sense of well-being, our economy all hang in the balance.

*I will, absolutely, advocate raising the gas tax and indexing it to inflation, though– a recent study in Germany pegged the optimal gas tax at $4.36/gallon.  Obviously we can't exactly get there from here, but the gap is so yawning that we have a moral duty to take a baby step in the right direction, to try and narrow it a little at least.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 01:01:03 PM »
« Edited: February 10, 2015, 01:02:40 PM by traininthedistance »

Or self driving compact cars that make biking, walking, and massive wide freeways obsolete.



Yes, magical technology silver bullets are always the answer to everything.  No need to do anything in the meantime.

Also... who the hell would want to get rid of walking?!
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2015, 04:27:15 PM »

Oh my god, you think I'm going to oppose someone proposing to build a coherent light rail system that I could actually use? With the existing BART/light rail infrastructure that Houston has, I literally cannot get to my job any other way than by driving there in a car. I have looked at the schedules myself and the dots literally do not connect for my location and schedule.

I would love for that to change, but it's not going to. The political landscape here simply will not allow it. So, yes, I am going to wrap myself in MUH HIGHWAYS FOR MUH CAR because there are no other options available to me. It's a choice between sitting in traffic for X amount of time on a congested highway and sitting in traffic for <X amount of time on a less congested, more built-up highway.

Oh, here's another thing about that whole "it's never going to change in Houston" idea:  it actually is changing, for the better, right this exact moment.  They in fact just approved a "reimagined map" which shifts around some resources to make a network that has denser, more frequent coverage  (including a grid-like network of buses running at least once every 15 minutes most of the day and weekends):

http://transitsystemreimagining.com/web/the-approved-map/

The plan is for it to take effect in August.

I mean, I don't know if it specifically makes transit a viable option for you, but it a) most certainly makes it a viable option for many more people than it was before, and b) they are getting this done in Houston, right in your backyard, with that political landscape, which I would hope disproves your idea that change/improvement is hopeless.  You owe it to yourself to take a look.
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