AL Supreme Court orders probate judges not to license same sex marriages

[CJK]

All racial segregation, both State mandated or not, was outlawed so I don't see what difference it makes. Nobody cares if mandatory desegregation increased black on white crime or made whites and blacks feel bad.

[Mechaman]

All racial segregation, both State mandated or not, was outlawed so I don't see what difference it makes. Nobody cares if mandatory desegregation increased black on white crime or made whites and blacks feel bad.

Is exile getting boring, JSojourner?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The introduction of no-fault divorce was a much more serious blow to 'what marriage has been' than simply removing the increasingly meaningless variable of gender. I think CJK is at best falling prey to the 'anything that existed in society when I was born is normal and natural; anything introduced into society after my adolescence is an abomination' fallacy. At worst, and most likely, he is just a loathsome bigot.

And once again, if you honestly believed gender is a "meaningless variable" you should have no problem with immediate bathroom desegregation.

But I do support availability of gender-neutral bathrooms. I don't know why you're assuming I don't.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That's ridiculous and a complete non sequitur.

[All Along The Watchtower]

hey man, she was wearing a short skirt, she was asking for harassment!!

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

[CJK]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

[politicus]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

There are far more low key and practical reasons for separate bathrooms.

Fx different hygiene standards.

Bathrooms used by men stink and become messy. So it is considerate towards women to have separate facilities.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

This is insane. Like literally I have no rebuttal, because I feel I am staring into the abyss of a completely deranged mind. Also I'm pretty sure you are some horrific misadventure in AI software gone wrong. I suppose that comforts me in a way.

[SteveRogers]

All racial segregation, both State mandated or not, was outlawed so I don't see what difference it makes. Nobody cares if mandatory desegregation increased black on white crime or made whites and blacks feel bad.

Ok, so you are literally just a racist. Got it.

[CJK]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

There are far more low key and practical reasons for separate bathrooms.

Fx different hygiene standards.

Bathrooms used by men stink and become messy. So it is considerate towards women to have separate facilities.

Again, my point is that even if there are good reasons, those reasons are no better or worse than the reasons given for past discrimination that are now completely ignored in mainstream discourse.

[SteveRogers]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

There are far more low key and practical reasons for separate bathrooms.

Fx different hygiene standards.

Bathrooms used by men stink and become messy. So it is considerate towards women to have separate facilities.

Again, my point is that even if there are good reasons, those reasons are no better or worse than the reasons given for past discrimination that are now completely ignored in mainstream discourse.

You understand that this argument only works in your favor if one starts from the premise that racial segregation was good and reasonable, right?

[memphis]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

There are far more low key and practical reasons for separate bathrooms.

Fx different hygiene standards.

Bathrooms used by men stink and become messy. So it is considerate towards women to have separate facilities.

Years ago, I worked at a small restaurant and my experiences cleaning both facilities were very much the opposite.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Yes all my flatmates at present are girls, and annoyingly the bathroom is much the same as when I lived with guys ugh.

[CJK]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

There are far more low key and practical reasons for separate bathrooms.

Fx different hygiene standards.

Bathrooms used by men stink and become messy. So it is considerate towards women to have separate facilities.

Again, my point is that even if there are good reasons, those reasons are no better or worse than the reasons given for past discrimination that are now completely ignored in mainstream discourse.

You understand that this argument only works in your favor if one starts from the premise that racial segregation was good and reasonable, right?

I never said that. It is perfectly reasonable to claim that integration was a moral necessity no matter what the cost. To imply that there was zero costs, however, is to impose a simple victor's history.  History gets written by the victors. The people who pushed to end segregation had a vested interest to later write history in a way that claimed they always had 100% of the facts and their opponents 0%, just like the segregationists previously wrote history to have the facts as 100% on their side as well. Saying that x group vilified today had 0% of the facts on their side is just being childish.

The universal consensus today that men would lose their minds and rape women at the drop of a hat if we desegregated bathrooms is just as ridiculous as the previous universal consensus that blacks were basically wild beasts around whites. Both of them have at least a little bit of truth, though, and figuring out what to do with that truth is the controversial part. Vilifying viewpoints one way or another is not helpful.

Are gays just as morally "worthy" as blacks were? I would say no, and to imply so would be deeply insulting blacks.

[Gustaf]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

There are far more low key and practical reasons for separate bathrooms.

Fx different hygiene standards.

Bathrooms used by men stink and become messy. So it is considerate towards women to have separate facilities.

Given the topic of bathroom segregation, how would you know this?

[Sol]

Yeah, as someone who cleans bathrooms for a living, I don't think there's much hygiene difference between men and women.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Yeah, as someone who cleans bathrooms for a living, I don't think there's much hygiene difference between men and women.

The default for a bathroom should be "clean," no matter who uses it. Peeing on the floor and on toilet seats is not an important male right necessary of being preserved, nor do I accept it as a standard.

[politicus]

modern fashion trends have destroyed the traditional concept of preventing men from harassing women.

Parrot it all you want, that line won't work on the jury in your inevitable lawsuit.

I think you know what I meant. The traditional concept of male-female interaction was that women had to not "provoke" men into harassment by wearing "provocative" outfits. That concept is no longer in effective operation. So the idea that we have to segregate bathrooms to prevent men from losing control is logically also outdated.

There are far more low key and practical reasons for separate bathrooms.

Fx different hygiene standards.

Bathrooms used by men stink and become messy. So it is considerate towards women to have separate facilities.

Given the topic of bathroom segregation, how would you know this?

Plenty of unisex facilities here - definitely lower standard than female only.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Are gays just as morally "worthy" as blacks were? I would say no, and to imply so would be deeply insulting blacks.

To not imply so is deeply insulting gays. Note also that there are gay blacks out there, quite a few of them actually!

[Maxwell]

I think some issues are being mixed up.

The people pushing gay marriage have made perfectly clear they do not consider a civil union good enough. So whether or not they function well is actually a red herring. They want a full blown removal of the gender restrictions on marriage. They are claiming that ability to reproduce is suddenly irrelevant to marriage.

That leads me to wonder if this opens the door to abolishing other gender restrictions. Let's say you find someone who claims, like gay marriage supporters, that separate but equal restrooms are inherently discriminatory because they stigmatize all men as pervs or women as weaklings. It could be argued that segregation, regardless of the justifications offered, is irrelevant to going to the bathroom.

You just dismiss this all as absurd, but how do you really know? In the 1980s gay marriage was universally seen as an absurdity as well.

Old people get married, so yes, the ability to reproduce is completely irrelevant.