Axelrod: Obama lied about opposing gay marriage

[IceSpear]

http://time.com/3702584/gay-marriage-axelrod-obama/

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Nothing most of us didn't already know, but still pretty interesting.

[King]

But Hillary must be burnt at the stake for it.

[IceSpear]

But Hillary must be burnt at the stake for it.

Hillary Clinton is the only politician who makes political calculations, you see.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

http://time.com/3702584/gay-marriage-axelrod-obama/

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Nothing most of us didn't already know, but still pretty interesting.

We know full well, this movie was already played with John Kerry opposing gay marriage and selecting a Christian guy like Edwards to conceal it. Axelrod was Edwards campaign manager in 2004, as well. The difference was that John Kerry, like Warren, like Pelosi is from Massachussetts and the Bay area which can't conceal it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well, he did oppose Prop. 8, which was a little weird for a gay marriage opponent.

[Ebowed]

We know full well, this movie was already played with John Kerry opposing gay marriage and selecting a Christian guy like Edwards to conceal it. Axelrod was Edwards campaign manager in 2004, as well. The difference was that John Kerry, like Warren, like Pelosi is from Massachussetts and the Bay area which can't conceal it.

Bill Clinton suggested to John Kerry during the 2004 campaign that he endorse the SSM ban in Ohio, which Kerry then ruled out without hesitation.  So I don't think Kerry wanted to take a particularly active role in looking "opposed" to it.  Don't forget, the highlight of the Vice Presidential debate that year was when Edwards brought up Cheney's daughter.  A rather uncomfortable moment, but memorable nonetheless.

[Mr. Morden]

Don't forget, the highlight of the Vice Presidential debate that year was when Edwards brought up Cheney's daughter.  A rather uncomfortable moment, but memorable nonetheless.

Memorable…but not enough to remember who brought it up, or which debate it was in. 

It was Kerry who brought up Cheney's daughter in the final presidential debate from that year:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-10-14-lynne-cheney_x.htm

[Middle-aged Europe]

Probably took a cue from the Governator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd1kzNBt4f4

[Brittain33]

But Hillary must be burnt at the stake for it.

On behalf of the gays, I can tell you no one cares anymore that our presidential candidates came around late. Obama may have waited until 2012 (and I voted against him in 2008 primaries in part on this) but he visibly moved the needle when he endorsed SSM.

[Landslide Lyndon]

OBAMA LIED, PEOPLE MARRIED!!!

[Mechaman]

I just always wondered why he bothered in the first place.  Axelrod is really stating what everybody already knows.  The whole "he did it for the votes!" Logic is particularly stupid considering that the people who do vote against gay marriage were already voting against him that year.  McCain beat Obama in like one poll in the entire campaign and it is not like George W. Bush was a popular president.  With the amount of topics he could slam McCain with (and this is even before the economic meltdown) the whole anti-gay marriage position just made very little sense particularly given Obama's appeal.  You would actually think that the smart thing for him to do would've been to just come out and endorse it to keep spirits high among activists and progressives more so than it was (which admittedly was pretty high).  And for people who say "BUT NORTH CAROLINA!" I would just say that if Democrats were seriously discussing winning North Carolina (which they did) that they were probably in a position where they did not need North Carolina's votes to win the election.

Instead he seemed to be running like it was 2004 and not 2008.  It isn't like gay marriage was that/i] controversial in August of 2008.  The idea that gay marriage was like a decisive issue in 2008 is just hilarious, especially given the economy and Bush's dark shadow over the GOP.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I just always wondered why he bothered in the first place.  Axelrod is really stating what everybody already knows.  The whole "he did it for the votes!" Logic is particularly stupid considering that the people who do vote against gay marriage were already voting against him that year.  McCain beat Obama in like one poll in the entire campaign and it is not like George W. Bush was a popular president.  With the amount of topics he could slam McCain with (and this is even before the economic meltdown) the whole anti-gay marriage position just made very little sense particularly given Obama's appeal.  You would actually think that the smart thing for him to do would've been to just come out and endorse it to keep spirits high among activists and progressives more so than it was (which admittedly was pretty high).  And for people who say "BUT NORTH CAROLINA!" I would just say that if Democrats were seriously discussing winning North Carolina (which they did) that they were probably in a position where they did not need North Carolina's votes to win the election.

Instead he seemed to be running like it was 2004 and not 2008.  It isn't like gay marriage was that/i] controversial in August of 2008.  The idea that gay marriage was like a decisive issue in 2008 is just hilarious, especially given the economy and Bush's dark shadow over the GOP.

You seem to forget that an SSM ban passed in friggin' California at the same time as Obama won it by 25 point. 2008 might not have been 2004, but it wasn't 2012 either. The dramatic shift in public opinion on SSM has only occurred over the past 5 years.

[TNF]

Coward.

[Mechaman]

I just always wondered why he bothered in the first place.  Axelrod is really stating what everybody already knows.  The whole "he did it for the votes!" Logic is particularly stupid considering that the people who do vote against gay marriage were already voting against him that year.  McCain beat Obama in like one poll in the entire campaign and it is not like George W. Bush was a popular president.  With the amount of topics he could slam McCain with (and this is even before the economic meltdown) the whole anti-gay marriage position just made very little sense particularly given Obama's appeal.  You would actually think that the smart thing for him to do would've been to just come out and endorse it to keep spirits high among activists and progressives more so than it was (which admittedly was pretty high).  And for people who say "BUT NORTH CAROLINA!" I would just say that if Democrats were seriously discussing winning North Carolina (which they did) that they were probably in a position where they did not need North Carolina's votes to win the election.

Instead he seemed to be running like it was 2004 and not 2008.  It isn't like gay marriage was that/i] controversial in August of 2008.  The idea that gay marriage was like a decisive issue in 2008 is just hilarious, especially given the economy and Bush's dark shadow over the GOP.

You seem to forget that an SSM ban passed in friggin' California at the same time as Obama won it by 25 point. 2008 might not have been 2004, but it wasn't 2012 either. The dramatic shift in public opinion on SSM has only occurred over the past 5 years.

Yes, but I highly doubt it would have cost him the presidential race.  People in 2008, though still largely anti-gay, at least had their priorities straight (like your California example shows).

Though I do concede a lot of Obama's momentum came post crash, so it is harder to tell how his stances on social issues impacted his polling.

[King]

2050 Atlas Forum --- Obama will be retroactively called a bigot who did nothing for Civil Rights HP a la LBJ with quotes from 2008 as proof.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

It sounds like it was at least as much about the primary as about the general election. Early on, Obama winning black voters against Clinton was far from a sure thing, nor was the idea that he would do so well in places like Idaho and Nebraska.

[Rockefeller GOP]

http://time.com/3702584/gay-marriage-axelrod-obama/

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Nothing most of us didn't already know, but still pretty interesting.

We know full well, this movie was already played with John Kerry opposing gay marriage and selecting a Christian guy like Edwards to conceal it. Axelrod was Edwards campaign manager in 2004, as well. The difference was that John Kerry, like Warren, like Pelosi is from Massachussetts and the Bay area which can't conceal it.

It's kind of annoying to me that the far right of Christianity - a religion that encompasses about 8 in 10 Americans - gets a monopoly on that name sometimes.  "John Kerry chose a 'Christian guy' like Edwards"?  John Kerry is a Christian, period.  Nearly everyone who's ever been on a Presidential ticket has been, including our current President and Vice President.

[Beet]

Axelrod just needs something interesting - a nugget that will make it in the news - to sell his book. This is a relatively harmless one that nonetheless looks juicy at first.

I'll give the man credit - he's the smartest political operative of his generation. I've always thought he was the "brains" behind Obama '08 - and unlike some operatives, he continues to give smart and relevant thoughts today.

[TDAS04]

Well, he did oppose Prop. 8, which was a little weird for a gay marriage opponent.

Democratic politicians tended to oppose constitutional bans (whether state or federal), even while refraining from endorsing SSM.  Obama, Hillary, Biden all voted against constitutional bans, and none of them probably ever had much of a problem with SSM.  Or at least while they couldn't endorse gay marriage for political reasons, they didn't want to completely throw gays under the bus with constitutional bans, either.

[Badger]

I'm shocked I tell you. Shocked!

[Ebowed]

Don't forget, the highlight of the Vice Presidential debate that year was when Edwards brought up Cheney's daughter.  A rather uncomfortable moment, but memorable nonetheless.

Memorable…but not enough to remember who brought it up, or which debate it was in.  

It was Kerry who brought up Cheney's daughter in the final presidential debate from that year:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-10-14-lynne-cheney_x.htm

Actually, the article mentions the debate I was referring to:

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It is presented as 'polite' rather than 'uncomfortable' here, perhaps for the purpose of drawing a contrast between this and Kerry's remarks afterwards, but I still recall it as the latter much more so than the former.

Edit:  a transcript does look rather 'polite', to be honest (as well as full of the awful realities of 2004-era politics, ugh) but I definitely didn't have the final presidential debate in mind when writing that post.

[Ebowed]

Also, here is Obama's response to this allegation:

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http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/buzzfeed-news-interview-president-obama?awesm=ofa.bo_b2o8#.of6y94QOa0

[DemPGH]

When in doubt, hedge your bet on rhetoric. I mean that has to be a fundamental rule of politics. That's what he was doing. History shows that things don't just change overnight. We were in a very transitionary point on the issue in 2008.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

It sounds like it was at least as much about the primary as about the general election. Early on, Obama winning black voters against Clinton was far from a sure thing, nor was the idea that he would do so well in places like Idaho and Nebraska.

There weren't many Democratic primary voters in Idaho who were opposed to same-sex marriage in 2008.

I'm surprised that so many posters believe that Democrats in red states are more conservative than Democrats nationwide. Democratic primary voters in Idaho are highly irreligious. I'd estimate that ~40% of Democratic primary voters in Idaho are non-religious. That wasn't the case in 1990.

There's no doubt that Obama's opposition to gay marriage was crucial to his primary victory but it would have solidified his numbers in Idaho and Utah.

[© tweed]

this is wedge issue politics 101