Atheist man opens fire on Muslim students at UNC Chapel Hill (user search)
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  Atheist man opens fire on Muslim students at UNC Chapel Hill (search mode)
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Author Topic: Atheist man opens fire on Muslim students at UNC Chapel Hill  (Read 12234 times)
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,727
United Kingdom


« on: February 11, 2015, 02:27:41 PM »

It's not particularly unusual for racist attacks (and murders) to be partially opportunistic; i.e. a situation escalates in the way that it does because the assailant is a bigot and the victim(s) is (are/was/were) from (or apparently from) a group that he hates. Basically you shouldn't rule out the possibility just because there are other factors.

Needless to say, o/c, this is extremely disturbing.
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Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,727
United Kingdom


« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 01:24:31 PM »

I don't know why.  This is one of the few (if any) violent acts we've heard of that could even be accused of being motivated by atheism. 

Would recommend that you avoid making sweeping statements that are obviously untrue.
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Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,727
United Kingdom


« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2015, 02:48:17 PM »

Is anyone here blaming atheism for this murderers murdering ways?
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Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,727
United Kingdom


« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2015, 02:49:27 PM »

I know you've made the argument before, Al, that the atheistic elements of the Communist Party had a lot to do with why they persecuted Christians.  I disagree, as it is quite obvious to me that persecution took place as part of an overall power struggle.  The Communists were fighting an element they thought could undermine their ideal government and society... They were not persecuting them in the name of atheism.

So now we have No True Atheist as well. Remarkable.
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Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,727
United Kingdom


« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2015, 06:56:32 PM »

I know you've made the argument before, Al, that the atheistic elements of the Communist Party had a lot to do with why they persecuted Christians.  I disagree, as it is quite obvious to me that persecution took place as part of an overall power struggle.  The Communists were fighting an element they thought could undermine their ideal government and society... They were not persecuting them in the name of atheism.

So now we have No True Atheist as well. Remarkable.

safasfsafdsfda.

That's not a No True Scotsman fallacy.  A No True Scotsman fallacy is an informal fallacy of goalpost-shifting, where someone makes a universal claim and then backs away from it.  He didn't do that, though, unless he made the claim that no atheists are violent.  I don't see him making that claim.  If he made the claim that no one has ever committed a violent act in the name of atheism, and then changed the definition of "in the name of atheism," that would be an NTS.  Otherwise, you're committing a syllogism error here.

'kay
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Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,727
United Kingdom


« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2015, 11:36:14 AM »

This wasn't some highly technical "gotcha," dude, so if you're being dismissive I don't see why.

It's just that I really don't care about (apparently?) strictly defined terms relating to logic, so was using the term in a very informal sense. So the appearance of a dense block of prim black-coated disapproval was not entirely anticipated.

Specifically a claim was made that religious persecution by the well-known atheist state the Soviet Union does not count because the attempt by this atheist state to impose atheism at the point of a gun was not motivated by atheism but by other considerations. Which is, for the record, total trash. This bogus and historically illiterate argument was made in the context of a claim about violence almost never being motivated by atheism (a claim that, like it or not, is untrue).

All of which is a bit odd because if there was a 'political' motivation to these murders it looks (I've not followed closely so could be missing several very important things) to be primarily anti-Muslim (I would use the word 'racist' but Americans get weirded out by uses of that word that postdate the 19th century).
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Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,727
United Kingdom


« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2015, 01:25:59 PM »

Al, WHY in your view were Christians in the USSR persecuted?

Is this a serious question? The Bolsheviks were militantly anticlerical (far more so than Marx or (especially) Engels were, actually) and acted accordingly once in power. The various religious minorities didn't have a particularly fun time either.
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