Update XXI: "Scientific Facts Are Not Hard And Fast Rules."

[Joe Biden 2020]

Joe, He told me through His Word (the Bible).

King, yes, but He didn't tell me to go right then.  It'll be a few years.

[King]

I mean, what would you be worried of? Poverty? You are a success in the eyes of God. If you truly believed in Him, you'd be unafraid to live in even as a vagrant for Him.

[Indy Texas]

I never said I didn't have problems, in fact I have many.  What I'm saying is God doesn't see me as a failure.  He sees me as a success because I have trusted Him as my Savior and Lord.  Without Him, I am a complete and utter wreck, but with Him I have been made new.  If God, who is the ultimate authority of my life and who holds the deed to my life, doesn't see me as a failure then why would I see myself as a failure.  I don't have it all figured out.  But, I serve a God who does.

So have a lot of horrid people, Jeff. Efraín Ríos Montt was a murderous dictator in Guatemala who was responsible for the death, oppression and impoverishment of hundreds of thousands of people. But he was a born-again Christian. Are you telling me that God views him as a success???

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This is a great example of why we still need jmfcst around, because he went to town on Bushie whenever Bushie used this type of argument and way of thinking, and quite effectively too.

[memphis]

Joe, He told me through His Word (the Bible).

King, yes, but He didn't tell me to go right then.  It'll be a few years.

But isn't the world is ending in a few years?

[Joe Biden 2020]

Indy, as strange as it may sound.  If that dictator was truly a born again Christian then yes God views him as a success.  God doesn't look at actions to judge whether one enters heaven or not, He judges solely by the heart and whether that heart has accepted His Son's sacrifice as atonement.  No sin is worse than any other sin.  If you think that's a horrible God, then look at it this way, nobody deserves heaven.  We all deserve hell.  He extends His grace freely to anyone who would believe regardless of good or bad deeds.  Even the best thing we could do is a filthy rag in the sight of God, so He extends His grace to cover our sin.  When God looks at Christians, He sees Us through the blood of Jesus, not for what we really are (which is total worthlessness).

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Grumps, I have worked specifically for Dell and Xerox.  My paychecks came directly from the two companies.  They are much more than people mills. 

From March 2011 -

I was doing a little job search on Career Builder.com this afternoon and I ran across an ad for a Help Desk Technician for a client in Oklahoma City that would pay $13.00/hr.  The client happens to be Dell.  I would need a medium security clearance.  She basically did a mini-interview over the phone with me just now and she loved the fact that I have 2 years of customer service experience and a college degree in the IT field.  She is going to get me started this afternoon on the application and security clearance paperwork.  This may take about a week or so, and then she will contact Dell and ask for a start date, which will probably be in early-mid April.  It is a call center, but it's in my degree field.

I don't care if a selfie of Michael Dell's penis was on your paycheck, you worked for a people mill.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Indy, as strange as it may sound.  If that dictator was truly a born again Christian then yes God views him as a success.  God doesn't look at actions to judge whether one enters heaven or not, He judges solely by the heart and whether that heart has accepted His Son's sacrifice as atonement.  No sin is worse than any other sin.  If you think that's a horrible God, then look at it this way, nobody deserves heaven.  We all deserve hell.  He extends His grace freely to anyone who would believe regardless of good or bad deeds.  Even the best thing we could do is a filthy rag in the sight of God, so He extends His grace to cover our sin.  When God looks at Christians, He sees Us through the blood of Jesus, not for what we really are (which is total worthlessness).

Bushie, do you realize how despicable and dangerous that type of ideology is? 

[Indy Texas]

Indy, as strange as it may sound.  If that dictator was truly a born again Christian then yes God views him as a success.  God doesn't look at actions to judge whether one enters heaven or not, He judges solely by the heart and whether that heart has accepted His Son's sacrifice as atonement.  No sin is worse than any other sin.  If you think that's a horrible God, then look at it this way, nobody deserves heaven.  We all deserve hell.  He extends His grace freely to anyone who would believe regardless of good or bad deeds.  Even the best thing we could do is a filthy rag in the sight of God, so He extends His grace to cover our sin.  When God looks at Christians, He sees Us through the blood of Jesus, not for what we really are (which is total worthlessness).

Bushie, do you realize how despicable and dangerous that type of ideology is? 

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with Bushie's religious beliefs. You have NO RIGHT to judge his beliefs. DO NOT MOCK HIS FAITH!

[Joe Republic]

This is a great example of why we still need jmfcst around, because he went to town on Bushie whenever Bushie used this type of argument and way of thinking, and quite effectively too.

What would be the point?  Bushie is proud of the fact that criticism of his religious beliefs go in one ear and out the other, even when coming from someone so bathed in prayer that his fingers were wrinkled.  Even when jamfist was here and berating Bushie's nonsensical interpretations of the same things he himself believed, the response was always, "Good Tuesday evening everybody!  I'm proud to say I only napped from 1400 to 1800 today blah blah blah etc."

[AkSaber]

God doesn't see me as a failure.

If that were true, then why was it necessary for God to have Jesus punished for our sins?

The fact is, we all are complete failures at living the sort of righteous life God intended for us to have. That's why we need the salvation of His son.

And it's perfectly fine to admit to yourself you failed at a certain task, or let a day get away from you. Losing gracefully builds humility, and creates a sense of urgency to change, so those sorts of failings don't happen as often.

But, constantly winning does nothing but make you think everything is fine and there is no need for change. And why should you change is everything's all right?

Turning every defeat into a victory is nothing more than making a convoluted excuse as to why everything's fine and going according to plan.

There's no shame in admitting defeat.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

[King]

Sins are not hard and fast rules

[afleitch]

What if you get too fat to be carried into heaven?

[King]

if sinning doesn't matter and it's just about believing in christ, then if everyone believed, heaven would be no different than earth.  An eternity of violence and debauchery.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Indy, as strange as it may sound.  If that dictator was truly a born again Christian then yes God views him as a success.  God doesn't look at actions to judge whether one enters heaven or not, He judges solely by the heart and whether that heart has accepted His Son's sacrifice as atonement.  No sin is worse than any other sin.  If you think that's a horrible God, then look at it this way, nobody deserves heaven.  We all deserve hell.  He extends His grace freely to anyone who would believe regardless of good or bad deeds.  Even the best thing we could do is a filthy rag in the sight of God, so He extends His grace to cover our sin.  When God looks at Christians, He sees Us through the blood of Jesus, not for what we really are (which is total worthlessness).

You're acting as if God doesn't know the difference between murder and telling a small lie to a parent. That's ridiculous. God puts aside your sins when you ask for forgiveness, but he doesn't forget them entirely, and if you make it your mission in life to be evil, he's going to send you to purgatory or hell, and that's the truth. Heaven is a place of salvation for those who have attempted to earn it by striving to not just believe in god, but also obey the commandments he's laid out in the bible. If you've made little or no attempt, and yes, god can tell whether you strive to obey him or not, you're going to purgatory or hell.

[IceSpear]

Indy, as strange as it may sound.  If that dictator was truly a born again Christian then yes God views him as a success. 

That's repulsive.

[memphis]

You guys are acting like these beliefs are part of some obscure sect like snakehandling, very problematic but also limited to a few isolated nutters. Although the SBC doesn't require a specific doctrine for membership, this is their de facto position. They are the largest Protestant denomination in the US and thoroughly dominate religious life in a very large part of the country. I usually avoid discussing religion with coworkers, but years ago, a middle age woman from Alabama I worked with was expressing her dissatisfaction with the Baptist view of salvation. How awful it is, but then she added "but that's just the way it is." She believed it unquestionably even as she found it morally repugnant. And in much of the country, that's just how it is. And she was a very middle class well spoken type who worked in an office. She was not a 300 lb man child who spends his day eating Braum's and napping.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

You guys are acting like these beliefs are part of some obscure sect like snakehandling, very problematic but also limited to a few isolated nutters. Although the SBC doesn't require a specific doctrine for membership, this is their de facto position. They are the largest Protestant denomination in the US and thoroughly dominate religious life in a very large part of the country. I usually avoid discussing religion with coworkers, but years ago, a middle age woman from Alabama I worked with was expressing her dissatisfaction with the Baptist view of salvation. How awful it is, but then she added "but that's just the way it is." She believed it unquestionably even as she found it morally repugnant. And in much of the country, that's just how it is. And she was a very middle class well spoken type who worked in an office. She was not a 300 lb man child who spends his day eating Braum's and napping.

No argument here, memph.  However, most religiouses have enough of a connection with common sense and reality to not spew the filth Bushie does.

[BaconBacon96]

Indy, as strange as it may sound.  If that dictator was truly a born again Christian then yes God views him as a success.  God doesn't look at actions to judge whether one enters heaven or not, He judges solely by the heart and whether that heart has accepted His Son's sacrifice as atonement.  No sin is worse than any other sin.  If you think that's a horrible God, then look at it this way, nobody deserves heaven.  We all deserve hell.  He extends His grace freely to anyone who would believe regardless of good or bad deeds.  Even the best thing we could do is a filthy rag in the sight of God, so He extends His grace to cover our sin.  When God looks at Christians, He sees Us through the blood of Jesus, not for what we really are (which is total worthlessness).

This is just an awful way of thinking. A) It excuses dictators and other evil people of their crimes simply by way of their religious affiliation and B) It excuses yourself from taking responsibility for any sins you may or may not have committed simply by way of your religious affiliation.

[Associate Justice PiT]

You guys are acting like these beliefs are part of some obscure sect like snakehandling, very problematic but also limited to a few isolated nutters. Although the SBC doesn't require a specific doctrine for membership, this is their de facto position. They are the largest Protestant denomination in the US and thoroughly dominate religious life in a very large part of the country. I usually avoid discussing religion with coworkers, but years ago, a middle age woman from Alabama I worked with was expressing her dissatisfaction with the Baptist view of salvation. How awful it is, but then she added "but that's just the way it is." She believed it unquestionably even as she found it morally repugnant. And in much of the country, that's just how it is. And she was a very middle class well spoken type who worked in an office. She was not a 300 lb man child who spends his day eating Braum's and napping.

No argument here, memph.  However, most religiouses have enough of a connection with common sense and reality to not spew the filth Bushie does.

     But they still believe in it. They believe in a heaven where they will meet Montt and Timothy McVeigh and David Koresh and others like them.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Why Timothy McVeigh? He was an agnostic who never recanted before his execution.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     My bad there. I'd say Eric Rudolph, but many of them admire him for his actions.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I believe what I believe.  There's no need in criticizing me for it.  What I am telling you is from the Bible.  It's not from the Catholic Church (who's teachings are not always correct).  My views come from the Bible and a lifetime of great men and women of God teaching me.  We cannot earn salvation.  No one can.  Salvation instead is a free gift.  This forum doesn't understand the concept of grace, apparently.  I could never do anything to earn my salvation.  I can only get to heaven through Jesus Christ (John 14:6).  No one can ever hope to earn their salvation.  If they base their attempt to reach God on their own works, then they will be sadly mistaken and disappointed when they leave this earth.  Everyone has to come to salvation through Jesus Christ alone.  Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For it is by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest anyone should boast."  This specifically says that we cannot earn our own salvation.  Since we know the Bible is 100% inerrant and infallible, this is the spoken word of God and thus no one can question the validity of any of the content of the 66 books of the Bible.

Anyway, I don't feel like discussing it any further.  You all refuse to see my point of view and instead are intent on bashing me over the head for my beliefs.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Why Timothy McVeigh? He was an agnostic who never recanted before his execution.

Timothy McVeigh and David Koresh were not Christians.  I do not believe they ever asked for forgiveness for their sins, so I believe they are burning in hell at this very moment.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

So you worked for Dell eh?