Update XXI: "Scientific Facts Are Not Hard And Fast Rules."

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

You are not going to change my mind or even cause me to think.  I believe what the Bible says more than I believe what any man says.  The Bible was written by 40 men, but authored by God Himself. That point cannot be disproven.  The Bible is the ultimate authority on life on earth and after.  There is no scholar who is above the Bible.  God authored the Bible and since no one can dispute that God is the ultimate authority about the existence of the universe (which He created), then I am going to believe God and His Word over some obsolete scholar.  And, yes, the Apostle John wrote the Gospel of John, 1,2,3 John, and Revelation.  Nobody can seriously question that.

Do not talk to me about it anymore.  You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period.

Christ almighty, this post hurts my head.

Just because something cannot be disproven, it ignores that it also can't be proven. But since "faith" fundamentally requires no evidence to justify it, you end up in a "logic" circle. You can't disprove it, therefore you're wrong - I don't need to prove it, I'm right. See?

Of course it can be questioned - your central problem is that you've had your capacity for analysis taken away from you. The Bible has been translated, re-translated - re-structured, re-ordered and written over a thousand years

"You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period" - what are you so afraid of? If your faith was secure, you wouldn't be afraid of asking questions...

Your Church and its views on Biblical interpretation are doing all who go a terrible disservice. I'd trust biblical scholars, who ACTUALLY understand what the Bible was ACTUALLY saying, over some backward, paranoid, anti-intellectual "preacher" in Oklahoma any day.

[Ebowed]

I do believe Moses wrote all of the Pentateuch except for Deuteronomy 34.  I believe Joshua wrote that chapter as that's the chapter Moses dies.  It would make sense since the next book is Joshua and it was written by Joshua.

Interestingly, in Joshua's private memoirs, he says that it was Moses' physician who provided the finishing touches to Deuteronomy.

I'll concede the final chapter of Deuteronomy could be either one.  I've always though it to be Joshua since he wrote the entire next book.  I've never heard of Moses' physician.  He is not mentioned anywhere in Scripture.  I'm not saying he didn't exist, but I don't know if he's an important enough figure to have written that last chapter.  It certainly is possible, though.

Then again, we don't know if Joshua actually wrote his purported private memoirs, either.  They're non-canonical.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I do believe Moses wrote all of the Pentateuch except for Deuteronomy 34.  I believe Joshua wrote that chapter as that's the chapter Moses dies.  It would make sense since the next book is Joshua and it was written by Joshua.

Interestingly, in Joshua's private memoirs, he says that it was Moses' physician who provided the finishing touches to Deuteronomy.

I'll concede the final chapter of Deuteronomy could be either one.  I've always though it to be Joshua since he wrote the entire next book.  I've never heard of Moses' physician.  He is not mentioned anywhere in Scripture.  I'm not saying he didn't exist, but I don't know if he's an important enough figure to have written that last chapter.  It certainly is possible, though.

Then again, we don't know if Joshua actually wrote his purported private memoirs, either.  They're non-canonical.

In my research, Joshua has the makings of an auto-biography of sorts.  This is all except for the last chapter, Joshua 24, where it's very murky who wrote it because of Joshua's death and the death of his contemporaries.  Some could say Samuel wrote it since it appears that he may have written Judges which is the next book after Joshua.

[7,052,770]

Bushie, are these Wikipedia pages interesting to you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_authorship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

They are intellectually fascinating to me, and I don't really even care about the Bible that much. I can't imagine someone as interested in the Bible as you are wouldn't be even more interested in this subject.

And yet ... I suspect this subject is going to get you all bent out of shape and defensive. You'll insist that you believe that Moses wrote the books and that you will never, ever consider anything otherwise.

Why is that? Nothing in any of these articles implies the untruth of the Bible, so that's out, and you yourself agree that one's salvation is not in danger simply by using literary analysis to challenge the traditional (ie, Man-defined) authorship of certain books. Do you just have loyalty to the pastor who originally told you that it's a 100% fact that Moses wrote the first 5 books and you don't want to consider that he might be wrong?

I've always believed Moses wrote all five books of the Pentateuch.  I don't really see how it could be anybody else, except for the aforementioned Deuteronomy 34.  The writing styles are very similar in all five books.  I've always grown up with the that belief.  I guess it is possible, just like John, but I don't see how it could be anybody else in either scenario.  Mind you, I come from a very conservative theological background.  Perhaps the difference in opinion comes in with the conservative vs. liberal viewpoints.  I'm not saying I'm 100% correct, but you shouldn't be saying you're 100% correct, either.  If you expect me to at least ponder your viewpoint, you have to at least ponder my viewpoint.

Remember, I don't claim to be 100% correct on these things, nor do I refuse to consider any alternative viewpoints -- I have no personal opinion on who wrote the Pentateuch, nor the books labeled John, since I'm nowhere near an expert on doing literary analysis, and I don't know a word of Hebrew or Ancient Greek anyway.

I just find this stuff interesting. Maybe it really was Moses and the John, but since the majority of experts don't think that, I'll go with them. I try to always defer to experts on matters I am not qualified to have my own opinions on.

[Joe Biden 2020]

You are not going to change my mind or even cause me to think.  I believe what the Bible says more than I believe what any man says.  The Bible was written by 40 men, but authored by God Himself. That point cannot be disproven. The Bible is the ultimate authority on life on earth and after.  There is no scholar who is above the Bible.  God authored the Bible and since no one can dispute that God is the ultimate authority about the existence of the universe (which He created), then I am going to believe God and His Word over some obsolete scholar.  And, yes, the Apostle John wrote the Gospel of John, 1,2,3 John, and Revelation.  Nobody can seriously question that.

Do not talk to me about it anymore.  You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period.

Christ almighty, this post hurts my head.

Just because something cannot be disproven, it ignores that it also can't be proven. But since "faith" fundamentally requires no evidence to justify it, you end up in a "logic" circle. You can't disprove it, therefore you're wrong - I don't need to prove it, I'm right. See?

Of course it can be questioned - your central problem is that you've had your capacity for analysis taken away from you. The Bible has been translated, re-translated - re-structured, re-ordered and written over a thousand years

"You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period" - what are you so afraid of? If your faith was secure, you wouldn't be afraid of asking questions...

Your Church and its views on Biblical interpretation are doing all who go a terrible disservice. I'd trust biblical scholars, who ACTUALLY understand what the Bible was ACTUALLY saying, over some backward, paranoid, anti-intellectual "preacher" in Oklahoma any day.

The reason I say that adamantly is I believe that there is no book or no written publication higher than the Bible.  I believe it is infallible and inerrant.  2 Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."  Virtually every Christian believer understands that God Himself cannot lie.  Therefore, if Scripture is given by inspiration of God, or God-breathed as some translations say, then I believe that God told each of the 40 writers like Moses, Joshua, Paul, etc. what to write.

About your hesitancy of the translations, I understand where you're coming from, which is why a lot of preachers I know, including myself, like to go back to the original Hebrew (Old Testament), Greek (New Testament), and Aramaic (Gospels) to properly understand the Bible.  If we go back to what is originally written, then we can avoid having to trust men.  Because, as you well know, these scholars are just men and don't know everything.  They don't have the mind of God.  Also, I might remind you that it doesn't take years of seminary school to understand the Bible.  All one needs to understand the Bible as it was meant to be understood is the Holy Spirit, which is the third person of the Trinity.  He is the best teacher.  Two of my pastors never had a single unit of seminary classwork, but I believe they were led by the Holy Spirit.  Were they perfect?  No, but no man is perfect in his teachings, not even the Pope.  I have been told over and over again in my whole life to take what my pastor or any Bible teacher says and match it up with the Bible.  If it doesn't match up with the Bible, then I am to believe the Bible and politely bring it up to the teacher so he may correct it.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

You are not going to change my mind or even cause me to think.  I believe what the Bible says more than I believe what any man says.  The Bible was written by 40 men, but authored by God Himself. That point cannot be disproven. The Bible is the ultimate authority on life on earth and after.  There is no scholar who is above the Bible.  God authored the Bible and since no one can dispute that God is the ultimate authority about the existence of the universe (which He created), then I am going to believe God and His Word over some obsolete scholar.  And, yes, the Apostle John wrote the Gospel of John, 1,2,3 John, and Revelation.  Nobody can seriously question that.

Do not talk to me about it anymore.  You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period.

Christ almighty, this post hurts my head.

Just because something cannot be disproven, it ignores that it also can't be proven. But since "faith" fundamentally requires no evidence to justify it, you end up in a "logic" circle. You can't disprove it, therefore you're wrong - I don't need to prove it, I'm right. See?

Of course it can be questioned - your central problem is that you've had your capacity for analysis taken away from you. The Bible has been translated, re-translated - re-structured, re-ordered and written over a thousand years

"You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period" - what are you so afraid of? If your faith was secure, you wouldn't be afraid of asking questions...

Your Church and its views on Biblical interpretation are doing all who go a terrible disservice. I'd trust biblical scholars, who ACTUALLY understand what the Bible was ACTUALLY saying, over some backward, paranoid, anti-intellectual "preacher" in Oklahoma any day.

The reason I say that adamantly is I believe that there is no book or no written publication higher than the Bible.  I believe it is infallible and inerrant.  2 Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."  Virtually every Christian believer understands that God Himself cannot lie.  Therefore, if Scripture is given by inspiration of God, or God-breathed as some translations say, then I believe that God told each of the 40 writers like Moses, Joshua, Paul, etc. what to write.

About your hesitancy of the translations, I understand where you're coming from, which is why a lot of preachers I know, including myself, like to go back to the original Hebrew (Old Testament), Greek (New Testament), and Aramaic (Gospels) to properly understand the Bible.  If we go back to what is originally written, then we can avoid having to trust men.  Because, as you well know, these scholars are just men and don't know everything.  They don't have the mind of God.  Also, I might remind you that it doesn't take years of seminary school to understand the Bible.  All one needs to understand the Bible as it was meant to be understood is the Holy Spirit, which is the third person of the Trinity.  He is the best teacher.  Two of my pastors never had a single unit of seminary classwork, but I believe they were led by the Holy Spirit.  Were they perfect?  No, but no man is perfect in his teachings, not even the Pope.  I have been told over and over again in my whole life to take what my pastor or any Bible teacher says and match it up with the Bible.  If it doesn't match up with the Bible, then I am to believe the Bible and politely bring it up to the teacher so he may correct it.

Yes, they do.

The Bible is a complex work, written by many people over many many years. Without understanding its context, then most of it doesn't make sense, except as the way your uninformed and uneducated leaders do. No wonder your interpretation is so damaged.

I have news for you... the Bible was written by men as flawed as anyone else.

[Associate Justice PiT]

You are not going to change my mind or even cause me to think.  I believe what the Bible says more than I believe what any man says.  The Bible was written by 40 men, but authored by God Himself. That point cannot be disproven. The Bible is the ultimate authority on life on earth and after.  There is no scholar who is above the Bible.  God authored the Bible and since no one can dispute that God is the ultimate authority about the existence of the universe (which He created), then I am going to believe God and His Word over some obsolete scholar.  And, yes, the Apostle John wrote the Gospel of John, 1,2,3 John, and Revelation.  Nobody can seriously question that.

Do not talk to me about it anymore.  You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period.

Christ almighty, this post hurts my head.

Just because something cannot be disproven, it ignores that it also can't be proven. But since "faith" fundamentally requires no evidence to justify it, you end up in a "logic" circle. You can't disprove it, therefore you're wrong - I don't need to prove it, I'm right. See?

Of course it can be questioned - your central problem is that you've had your capacity for analysis taken away from you. The Bible has been translated, re-translated - re-structured, re-ordered and written over a thousand years

"You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period" - what are you so afraid of? If your faith was secure, you wouldn't be afraid of asking questions...

Your Church and its views on Biblical interpretation are doing all who go a terrible disservice. I'd trust biblical scholars, who ACTUALLY understand what the Bible was ACTUALLY saying, over some backward, paranoid, anti-intellectual "preacher" in Oklahoma any day.

The reason I say that adamantly is I believe that there is no book or no written publication higher than the Bible.  I believe it is infallible and inerrant.  2 Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."  Virtually every Christian believer understands that God Himself cannot lie.  Therefore, if Scripture is given by inspiration of God, or God-breathed as some translations say, then I believe that God told each of the 40 writers like Moses, Joshua, Paul, etc. what to write.

About your hesitancy of the translations, I understand where you're coming from, which is why a lot of preachers I know, including myself, like to go back to the original Hebrew (Old Testament), Greek (New Testament), and Aramaic (Gospels) to properly understand the Bible.  If we go back to what is originally written, then we can avoid having to trust men.  Because, as you well know, these scholars are just men and don't know everything.  They don't have the mind of God.  Also, I might remind you that it doesn't take years of seminary school to understand the Bible.  All one needs to understand the Bible as it was meant to be understood is the Holy Spirit, which is the third person of the Trinity.  He is the best teacher.  Two of my pastors never had a single unit of seminary classwork, but I believe they were led by the Holy Spirit.  Were they perfect?  No, but no man is perfect in his teachings, not even the Pope.  I have been told over and over again in my whole life to take what my pastor or any Bible teacher says and match it up with the Bible.  If it doesn't match up with the Bible, then I am to believe the Bible and politely bring it up to the teacher so he may correct it.

Yes, they do.

The Bible is a complex work, written by many people over many many years. Without understanding its context, then most of it doesn't make sense, except as the way your uninformed and uneducated leaders do. No wonder your interpretation is so damaged.

I have news for you... the Bible was written by men as flawed as anyone else.

     It's sad that people are reading the Bible with no understanding or interest in its historical context. Speaking as an atheist it's a wonderful work of literature, yet the very Christians who claim to exalt it degrade it to the level of a self-help book. I would think that they'd try to find the majesty in the Word of God and understand it on as many levels as possible. That's the approach that the rabbis and the early Church fathers took to reading it, and I find their interpretations to be endlessly fascinating.

[Joe Biden 2020]

You are not going to change my mind or even cause me to think.  I believe what the Bible says more than I believe what any man says.  The Bible was written by 40 men, but authored by God Himself. That point cannot be disproven. The Bible is the ultimate authority on life on earth and after.  There is no scholar who is above the Bible.  God authored the Bible and since no one can dispute that God is the ultimate authority about the existence of the universe (which He created), then I am going to believe God and His Word over some obsolete scholar.  And, yes, the Apostle John wrote the Gospel of John, 1,2,3 John, and Revelation.  Nobody can seriously question that.

Do not talk to me about it anymore.  You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period.

Christ almighty, this post hurts my head.

Just because something cannot be disproven, it ignores that it also can't be proven. But since "faith" fundamentally requires no evidence to justify it, you end up in a "logic" circle. You can't disprove it, therefore you're wrong - I don't need to prove it, I'm right. See?

Of course it can be questioned - your central problem is that you've had your capacity for analysis taken away from you. The Bible has been translated, re-translated - re-structured, re-ordered and written over a thousand years

"You are not going to change my mind.  Ever.  Period" - what are you so afraid of? If your faith was secure, you wouldn't be afraid of asking questions...

Your Church and its views on Biblical interpretation are doing all who go a terrible disservice. I'd trust biblical scholars, who ACTUALLY understand what the Bible was ACTUALLY saying, over some backward, paranoid, anti-intellectual "preacher" in Oklahoma any day.

The reason I say that adamantly is I believe that there is no book or no written publication higher than the Bible.  I believe it is infallible and inerrant.  2 Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."  Virtually every Christian believer understands that God Himself cannot lie.  Therefore, if Scripture is given by inspiration of God, or God-breathed as some translations say, then I believe that God told each of the 40 writers like Moses, Joshua, Paul, etc. what to write.

About your hesitancy of the translations, I understand where you're coming from, which is why a lot of preachers I know, including myself, like to go back to the original Hebrew (Old Testament), Greek (New Testament), and Aramaic (Gospels) to properly understand the Bible.  If we go back to what is originally written, then we can avoid having to trust men.  Because, as you well know, these scholars are just men and don't know everything.  They don't have the mind of God.  Also, I might remind you that it doesn't take years of seminary school to understand the Bible.  All one needs to understand the Bible as it was meant to be understood is the Holy Spirit, which is the third person of the Trinity.  He is the best teacher.  Two of my pastors never had a single unit of seminary classwork, but I believe they were led by the Holy Spirit.  Were they perfect?  No, but no man is perfect in his teachings, not even the Pope.  I have been told over and over again in my whole life to take what my pastor or any Bible teacher says and match it up with the Bible.  If it doesn't match up with the Bible, then I am to believe the Bible and politely bring it up to the teacher so he may correct it.

Yes, they do.

The Bible is a complex work, written by many people over many many years. Without understanding its context, then most of it doesn't make sense, except as the way your uninformed and uneducated leaders do. No wonder your interpretation is so damaged.

I have news for you... the Bible was written by men as flawed as anyone else.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, then.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

THE DEUTERONOMISTIC HISTORIES WERE WRITTEN BY JEREMIAH OR ONE OF HIS CONTEMPORARIES

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

HockeyDude side note:

I must say Madeleine.  The way you portray yourself as so intellectually superior when it comes to matters Biblical is astounding in many ways.

[Panda Express]

What was for dinner tonight?

^^^^
It's been a few days since we had any dinner updates, so I assume the "diet" is RIP.

The diet is not RIP, although it is on a break for the next 72 hours.  I will resume it when I get back to Tulsa Monday evening.

Is drinking water on break too?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

HockeyDude side note:

I must say Madeleine.  The way you portray yourself as so intellectually superior when it comes to matters Biblical is astounding in many ways.

Uh, sorry. I'm not actively trying to come across as a know-it-all, I'm just worn ragged about a variety of things right now and taking it out on Bushie's terrible exegesis.

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

Update Season XXII: You are not going to change my mind or even cause me to think

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Update Season XXII: You are not going to change my mind or even cause me to think

My recommendation would be Update Season XXII: You Are Not Changing My Mind. Ever. Period.

[King]

Bushie's gonna be back at 290 in 72 hours.

[WalterMitty]

Bushie's gonna be back at 290 in 72 hours.

He never left.

[Lief 🗽]

Is the RACE TO 300 back on???

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Is the RACE TO 300 back on???

Apparently.

Bushie's gonna be back at 290 in 72 hours.

He never left.

He did, actually.

This morning's weigh in - 284.6.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

You're new here and that's okay. However, you should know that a few years ago Bushie would tell us he was losing weight each day and got down to like 245lbs only to reveal he had been lying about it for months.

So while he may have hit 284 I always take his weigh ins with a grain of salt.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I will make another official weigh-in either Tuesday or Wednesday morning of this coming week.

[Lief 🗽]

I'm going to take that a "yes" to the question I asked.

[AndrewTX]

I will make another official weigh-in either Tuesday or Wednesday morning of this coming week.

Show us the scale when you do.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I'm going to take that a "yes" to the question I asked.

There was never a race to 300 except in your corrupt, twisted minds.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I will make another official weigh-in either Tuesday or Wednesday morning of this coming week.

Show us the scale when you do.

No

[Ban my account ffs!]

Because he already weighs 309 pounds.