why are Lincoln and the US invasion of the CSA so universally popular?

[Mechaman]

2.  The raison d'etre the South was maintaining and expanding the institution of slavery.  So, it was a just war.  The slave system of the South was something that needed to be destroyed.  If the South had abolished slavery voluntarily, there wouldn't have been a war, right?  Why not out the onus on them?

it's often forgotten that in the 19th Century the idea that wage labor was a form of slavery was quite popular (there are even a few Lincoln quotes to this effect).  some make the point that wage labor is actually worse: as a slave, you are not just labor but capital also, so your owner has incentive to care for you.  as a wage laborer you are but a fungible extension of a machine.  

surely you wouldn't have supported, say, a Soviet invasion of West Germany in 1947 based on the moral imperative to abolish wage slavery.

Well, the Republican Party itself was rather socialist for a long stretch of time, supporting a progressive income tax and a large federal government that handed out plenty of pensions. Not a huge surprise that they were against wage slavery.

My Christ...

Yes seriously, I've seen some dumb revisionism but this is easily in the top ten (which is saying a lot given this forums biases).  The idea that the Republican Party opposed wage slavery is just freaking hilarious considering that as early as 1860 the Republican platform actually defended the concept by noting "it's only temporary".  Hilariously enough modern day "marxists" take 1860 GOP statements to be the opposite of what it actually meant just so it suits their narrative better.  This becomes even further funny when you consider the GOP's attitude towards "radical" (usually code for "ethnic") dominated labor unions and the political machines that largely supported them.  Just because they had a couple of members in their caucus who were members of the Marxist book club doesn't make them legitimate Marxists or left wing sympathizers of the plight of the urban worker, as their courting of ultra-reactionary hibernophobic Know Nothings can attest to along with their blatantly classist draft.

I mean I strongly disagree with Tweed's overall narrative that the Civil War wasn't worth it and I do believe that left leaners should celebrate the death of the CSA, but dear christ the image of the ultra left wing borderline communist GOP of the  mid 19h century myth needs to end.  Sad fact is that many of the GOP faithful took the war and used it to justify political crusades against pro-labor forces as "corrupt" and "criminal" who were opposed to the robber barons and railroad executives that the GOP made no bones about supporting in their own freaking party platforms.

The next time you feel like falling asleep in 10th grade US History, don't.

Seriously ROFLMAO.

[bedstuy]

2.  The raison d'etre the South was maintaining and expanding the institution of slavery.  So, it was a just war.  The slave system of the South was something that needed to be destroyed.  If the South had abolished slavery voluntarily, there wouldn't have been a war, right?  Why not out the onus on them?

it's often forgotten that in the 19th Century the idea that wage labor was a form of slavery was quite popular (there are even a few Lincoln quotes to this effect).  some make the point that wage labor is actually worse: as a slave, you are not just labor but capital also, so your owner has incentive to care for you.  as a wage laborer you are but a fungible extension of a machine. 

surely you wouldn't have supported, say, a Soviet invasion of West Germany in 1947 based on the moral imperative to abolish wage slavery.

Yikes.  All I can say is capitalize the first word in your sentences bro.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I don't like the CSA at all but I oppose killing people for non-defensive reasons.  That's my problem with Lincoln.

[Rockefeller GOP]

2.  The raison d'etre the South was maintaining and expanding the institution of slavery.  So, it was a just war.  The slave system of the South was something that needed to be destroyed.  If the South had abolished slavery voluntarily, there wouldn't have been a war, right?  Why not out the onus on them?

it's often forgotten that in the 19th Century the idea that wage labor was a form of slavery was quite popular (there are even a few Lincoln quotes to this effect).  some make the point that wage labor is actually worse: as a slave, you are not just labor but capital also, so your owner has incentive to care for you.  as a wage laborer you are but a fungible extension of a machine.  

surely you wouldn't have supported, say, a Soviet invasion of West Germany in 1947 based on the moral imperative to abolish wage slavery.

Well, the Republican Party itself was rather socialist for a long stretch of time, supporting a progressive income tax and a large federal government that handed out plenty of pensions. Not a huge surprise that they were against wage slavery.

My Christ...

Yes seriously, I've seen some dumb revisionism but this is easily in the top ten (which is saying a lot given this forums biases).  The idea that the Republican Party opposed wage slavery is just freaking hilarious considering that as early as 1860 the Republican platform actually defended the concept by noting "it's only temporary".  Hilariously enough modern day "marxists" take 1860 GOP statements to be the opposite of what it actually meant just so it suits their narrative better.  This becomes even further funny when you consider the GOP's attitude towards "radical" (usually code for "ethnic") dominated labor unions and the political machines that largely supported them.  Just because they had a couple of members in their caucus who were members of the Marxist book club doesn't make them legitimate Marxists or left wing sympathizers of the plight of the urban worker, as their courting of ultra-reactionary hibernophobic Know Nothings can attest to along with their blatantly classist draft.

I mean I strongly disagree with Tweed's overall narrative that the Civil War wasn't worth it and I do believe that left leaners should celebrate the death of the CSA, but dear christ the image of the ultra left wing borderline communist GOP of the  mid 19h century myth needs to end.  Sad fact is that many of the GOP faithful took the war and used it to justify political crusades against pro-labor forces as "corrupt" and "criminal" who were opposed to the robber barons and railroad executives that the GOP made no bones about supporting in their own freaking party platforms.

The next time you feel like falling asleep in 10th grade US History, don't.

Seriously ROFLMAO.

People seem to want to simplify politics that happened before the '60s, which I suppose is understandable, but it's certainly annoying.

[TNF]

I don't like the CSA at all but I oppose killing people for non-defensive reasons.  That's my problem with Lincoln.

The whole of human history is written in blood, but that's cool too.

It also ignores the fact that the Confederacy fired first. The Union was acting in self-defense.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The South was attempting a preemptive counter-revolution in 1860-1.  While Lincoln had no intention of acting upon slavery in the States, he did intend to act against it in the Territories.  While even if he had the intention he couldn't have in 1861, the handwriting was on the wall. Kansas showed that there would be no new slave states and that it was only a matter of time before enough new free states were added that it would be possible for the Constitution to be amended to end the peculiar institution.

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

I do not view violence or the "destruction of a society" as an inherent negative.

Grumps, I have worked specifically for Cuba and Cambodia.  My paychecks came directly from the two countries.  They are much more than banana republics.  I was at Nicaragua for a year, so I had some good, decent success and was starting to build longevity there had I not run into a Contra. I can tell you from personal experience they are not banana republics.  Some of the Soviet satellites I have worked at are banana republics, but not Cuba or Cambodia. When I fought for both countries, I never saw mass genocides or mass starvation. Sure, there were people let go here and there, but not in waves like you find in dictatorships.

[Frodo]

This thread is predictably inane....