American West Will Face Mega Droughts in Coming Century
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Author Topic: American West Will Face Mega Droughts in Coming Century  (Read 2401 times)
Frodo
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« on: February 16, 2015, 06:24:44 PM »

The worst in more than a thousand years, according to a new study:

Study sees even bigger, longer droughts for much of U.S. West

By Seth Borenstein
The Associated Press
POSTED:   02/13/2015


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politicus
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2015, 06:45:54 PM »

The worst in more than a thousand years, according to a new study:

Study sees even bigger, longer droughts for much of U.S. West

By Seth Borenstein
The Associated Press
POSTED:   02/13/2015


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The scenario that large parts of the US are going to be virtually uninhabitable in 50 years is something policy makers should take seriously. It influences a wide range of issues.
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badgate
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 07:01:19 PM »

end times
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MaxQue
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2015, 07:01:36 PM »

Clearly God punishment for abortion and gay marriage.
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The Free North
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2015, 07:12:20 PM »

Never heard of that journal, would much rather trust/read some mainstream climate or meteorological literature.


As for the claims of mega drought..sadly no, the PDO will revert back to a positive phase soon and we will see normalization in precipitation patterns in the west. Of course the long term viability of US cities out there is in question but thats mainly due to the ballooning population of what essentially is uninhabitable wasteland (Vegas/LA).


The immovable ridging we have had out west these past 2 winters has produced incredible cold here in the east but like any pattern will continue to fluctuate. Should we get a re-invigorated El Nino event coupled with a warm PDO and a strong Subtropical Jet, California will have to worry about mudslides rather than drought.



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Panda Express
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2015, 07:15:16 PM »

I don't get why some of these cities, like Phoenix or Las Vegas, just don't build a massive pipe/hose that connects the Pacific Ocean to the city
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The Free North
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 07:18:22 PM »

I don't get why some of these cities, like Phoenix or Las Vegas, just don't build a massive pipe/hose that connects the Pacific Ocean to the city

Because you can't drink salt water and desalination is far more expensive than draining the colorado river dry.



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pbrower2a
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2015, 07:22:16 PM »

I don't get why some of these cities, like Phoenix or Las Vegas, just don't build a massive pipe/hose that connects the Pacific Ocean to the city

First, the seawater must be desalinated, an energy-intensive process.

Second, the highly-concentrated brine must be dumped somewhere.  That would be an environmental mess.

Third, the Gulf of California (in Mexico) is closer than the Pacific Ocean. 
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 07:25:33 PM »
« Edited: February 16, 2015, 07:35:55 PM by New Canadaland »

This reminds me of the drought catastrophe in Brazil:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/17/world/americas/drought-pushes-sao-paulo-brazil-toward-water-crisis.html?_r=0
While it's not meteorologically as severe as long-term predictions for the Southwest and Plains (being the worst drought in 80 years, not 1000+ years), the relative inability of Brazil to cope with drought makes it as bad as what could be in store for parts of the United States. Mexico would be even more vulnerable, so a large influx of weather-related immigration could be expected when such a drought hits.
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politicus
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2015, 07:38:01 PM »


nah, different and challenging times
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Panda Express
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2015, 07:44:28 PM »

I don't get why some of these cities, like Phoenix or Las Vegas, just don't build a massive pipe/hose that connects the Pacific Ocean to the city

Because you can't drink salt water and desalination is far more expensive than draining the colorado river dry.



What if the Pacific Ocean water was only used for things like watering lawns and sewage and that cool fountain in front of the Bellagio and stuff while the "drinking water" remains the regular water that is used now?
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2015, 07:47:40 PM »

I would love it if American desert cities started watering their lawns with salt water.
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politicus
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2015, 07:47:41 PM »
« Edited: February 16, 2015, 08:00:08 PM by Charlotte Hebdo »

Never heard of that journal, would much rather trust/read some mainstream climate or meteorological literature.


It is mainstream, but new. Published by American Association for the Advancement of Science. The publishers of Science.

Also, Benjamin Cook is a respected scientist. Not a lightweight in this field.

http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/authors/bcook.html

Toby Ault:

http://www.eas.cornell.edu/people/profile.cfm?netid=tra38
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politicus
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2015, 08:04:42 PM »


As for the claims of mega drought..sadly no, the PDO will revert back to a positive phase soon and we will see normalization in precipitation patterns in the west. Of course the long term viability of US cities out there is in question but thats mainly due to the ballooning population of what essentially is uninhabitable wasteland (Vegas/LA).

The immovable ridging we have had out west these past 2 winters has produced incredible cold here in the east but like any pattern will continue to fluctuate. Should we get a re-invigorated El Nino event coupled with a warm PDO and a strong Subtropical Jet, California will have to worry about mudslides rather than drought.


So why should we trust you over these guys (working at NASA and Cornell) on this?
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user12345
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2015, 08:31:35 PM »

Thanks Obama.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2015, 09:30:05 PM »
« Edited: February 16, 2015, 09:32:48 PM by MaxQue »

Never heard of that journal, would much rather trust/read some mainstream climate or meteorological literature.


It is mainstream, but new. Published by American Association for the Advancement of Science. The publishers of Science.

Through, from what I understand, it's a pay-to-publish model, which I always found iffy.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2015, 09:53:44 PM »

Just build a 100-ft water cooler in each of these cities with a hose running from the nozzle into the water supply.  When the bottles run out, ship some new ones in.  Easy.
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RI
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2015, 09:54:43 PM »

Fortunately, Washington won't run out of water any time soon.
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badgate
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2015, 09:57:55 PM »


Nicolai carpathia loyalist, eh?
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jfern
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2015, 11:20:14 PM »

If things get really bad, I could see California pushing to run an aqueduct from the Columbia River.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2015, 11:38:43 PM »

A warmer planet would mean the subtropical high pressure that dominates in the desert belts moves north.  This, coupled with a cooler eastern pacific ocean due to upwelling water, casts a giant rain shadow on the SW quadrant of N America.

But then enormous el niño events can occur sporadically and lead to devastating flooding.

My intuition tells me that if global warming plays out, it will increase the summer monsoon in the west, and Arizona will get most of its precip in summer rather than winter, which would be dry and benign.

Unfortunately in California where the cold Pacific keeps the atmosphere too stable for convection...itll dry up like a prune even as Nevada potentially greens.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2015, 11:42:32 PM »

Yeah...politicus is pretty much the spawn of satan (i'm kidding)
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2015, 11:50:39 PM »

I don't get why some of these cities, like Phoenix or Las Vegas, just don't build a massive pipe/hose that connects the Pacific Ocean to the city

Because you can't drink salt water and desalination is far more expensive than draining the colorado river dry.



What if the Pacific Ocean water was only used for things like watering lawns and sewage and that cool fountain in front of the Bellagio and stuff while the "drinking water" remains the regular water that is used now?

Joke?

1. If you use salt water on your lawn it is going to die
2. Using saltwater for things like fountains will corrode the pipes into oblivion
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2015, 12:41:33 PM »

I don't get why some of these cities, like Phoenix or Las Vegas, just don't build a massive pipe/hose that connects the Pacific Ocean to the city

Because you can't drink salt water and desalination is far more expensive than draining the colorado river dry.



What if the Pacific Ocean water was only used for things like watering lawns and sewage and that cool fountain in front of the Bellagio and stuff while the "drinking water" remains the regular water that is used now?

Homer Simpson logic?
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snowguy716
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2015, 03:15:30 PM »

What if we just add pepper to the water...that oughta balance out the salt
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